DSS (10) went to thump DS (4 and disabled)

[TemporaryChange1]

My DS can be incredibly challenging and you would never hear me pretend otherwise but what happened this evening has really upset me. DS is severely autistic, has LD's and suspected ADHD. His level of understanding is more comparable to a very young toddler.

DSC are round today. I left all of them with OH (father to all of them) whilst I nipped to the shop. DS began having a meltdown when I got home as he struggles with transitions and gets upset when people come in and out as he automatically wants to go outside himself.

As I come in DS begins crying and throwing himself on the floor. He threw one of his car toys which landed near DSD but not at her. It landed about a metre away from where she was sitting. DSS (10) jumped up, grabbed DS by the jumper and raised his fist ready to thump him in the face.

OH shouted for him to stop right there and don't you dare punch him, so he didn't, but he certainly intended to.

When DSS (10) went back to sit down DS (4) then threw another toy which landed near him this time. OH made DS apologise for throwing the toy. No apology forthcoming from DSS for going to thump DS.

Admittedly, DS is my weakness. I'm incredibly protective of him as he's just so vulnerable so I want to know whether you think I'm being unreasonable so be absolutely furious about this.

I got DS shoes on and took him out the house to the greenery down the road where we're now sitting.

@Kanaloa bullshit.

OP said none of things. She didn't say she wants any of those things. She's mostly upset because her 4 yo was made to apologise,while the 10 yo wasn't and had no consequences. She's upset because her husband shouted at her. She's upset because her husband is making excuses for the 10 yo.

And even if she was worried, I wouldn't blame her because that wasn't a normal reaction. Even on the higher end of normal, shouting,pushing ,shoving while still not ok would be more understandable. Grabbing another child by the neck if their jumper and going to punch them is a very aggressive reaction. Even more so, with a much smaller child.

That doesn't mean there's no come back from this or that the 10 yo is bad or violent, but let's not pretend that it is normal and not a big deal like you and other posters are .

I don’t think it’s not a big deal. I have specifically said more support and a calm talk about how the parents can prevent this is needed because it’s an unacceptable situation for all the children involved. What I’m saying isn’t acceptable is to cast the 10 year old as a violent bully of tiny infants when that’s just not what happened. The 10 year old needs support. The four year old needs supervision. This is on the parents to fix and change, not a child to be made out as a horrible violent bully. But it seems like the issue is the parents overall. The husband doesn’t want to communicate, there is obviously a rift where it’s very ‘mine and yours’ and it’s easier to blame the child/make him out as awful than it is to confront the deep set communication issues in the family that have led to this situation.

I'm so sorry that you've had such awful
unempathetic and downright weird replies, OP.

I taught children like your DS for some decades, and even in our specialist seeing (five adults to eight children, with ALL our focus on them) it was still impossible to get to a child before s/he threw something. It's bizarre that people expect a parent to be three inches away from their disabled child at all times. I'm not sure how they expect a house to be run and any other children given attention.

It's always, always hard for families in this situation. If you feel that you and your DH aren't on the same page, or are struggling to communicate regarding your DS and the DSCs, maybe attending counselling would be a good idea? If you could find any through organisations that understand the effect on relationships of children with complex needs, all the better.

Please don't take the unpleasant posts to heart. I agree with you that the ones from other SN parents are particularly disheartening. Fortunately the parents of the children in my class were almost without exception, really understanding of the occasional classroom incident. They 'got it' even when their own child was in the receiving end of a lobbed toy.

10 year old should not attack 4 year old disabled siblings.

You’re repeating this like a mantra OP but thats an ‘ideal world’ and we don’t live in one. All kids have ‘out of character’ moments when they get completely overwhelmed and do something they wouldn’t normally do. DSS hasn’t made a habit of attacking his brother, it’s clear in that moment he lost control and did something bad. He’s been appropriately spoken to and now you know to monitor their interactions together for a while. What more do you want?

I’m going to be honest and say at 10 I would’ve found a sibling that regularly screams, thrashes about and throws things really annoying and difficult to cope with. It sounds like a slow burn and snap situation to me rather than ‘let’s pick on my disabled brother for the fun of it’. At 10 he might ‘know’ he’s disabled but he will lack a true understanding of what that means and how it affects his brother.

Please don't take the unpleasant posts to heart. I agree with you that the ones from other SN parents are particularly disheartening. Fortunately the parents of the children in my class were almost without exception, really understanding of the occasional classroom incident. They 'got it' even when their own child was in the receiving end of a lobbed toy.

The step mum bias might have a big part to play in that.

I suspect that its more to do with lack of any empathy in her post towards her DSS.

We get it OP you and tiny baby are hard done by victims and everyone else in the scenario is horrible and criminally abusive. Well if that’s the case why are you subjecting your child to abuse by staying in the relationship/home?

@PurpleFrames i think that’s unfair, OP is his mum and probably feels very emotional/protective over her son and is unable to see him through the lenses of a slightly more removed person. Especially one who isn’t even a teenager yet. I don’t think anyone is in the wrong particularly, I think DH needs to have a frank conversation with DSS about DS’s level of disability. As in ‘yes DSS we find it annoying too, even OP. He’s very hard work and we find his meltdowns difficult as well, but he really doesn’t know what he’s doing so punishing him won’t work. Is his behaviour getting to you?’ Etc.

What a pathetic post. Do better.

Thank you so much. I think it's really important to hear from somebody with your professional experience to confirm that sometimes with the best will in the world you just can't intercept every thrown item. Even if there are 2+ adults about.

The parents of special needs children I know IRL are as you describe the ones you know to be, understanding - because they get it.

Imagine being an ostrich for 10 pages and not learning a thing! It’s so frustrating to read. The children are ALL losing out here.

It's ironic that people here are laying into me about how I have no compassion for DSS, DSS needs to be protected from DS, everyone needs to think of DSS, what he did was understandable because DS is so frustrating etc.

Do you think a pile on and minimising what happened to my son is going to make me suddenly see the error of my alleged ways and switch from advocating for DS to suddenly realising how tough DSS has it and thinking how he's the one at risk?

Or do you think it's going to upset me and cause me to put further walls up and feel defensive?

If anybody is orchestrating an us V them mentality it's you lot on here.

Mumsnet can be so damaging to blended families. A step mother can't discuss anything, not even her own child being threatened, because you lot are so quick to attack and blame the step mother for everything - for the behaviour of a child she has cared about and tried hard with .. for years

So my question to you is, at what age do you think we draw the line and say a child should know better? 11? 16?

The fact is some of you would be here trumpeting the same old shit if DSS was 13-14 as you are whilst he's 10. You'll deny that but we know it's true. It's not about right and wrong for you. It's about demonising step parents and sticking two fingers up to the second family and subsequent children. Whatever the case.

I can come on here (and have done, several times) and talk about how shitty I'm finding life when DS is going through a difficult patch. I can say that his behaviour is making it hard for me to enjoy being around him in that moment. I can talk about how I love him but hate the behaviour and that's all perfectly acceptable.

If I say one thing about DSC.. I'm the arsehole and unreasonable by default. Double standards.

All your pile on has done is reinforce to me that I need to keep DS away from DSS. Its a bit of a self fulfilling prophesy isn't it? You think I'm an arsehole for protecting my son and that my son is such a risk to a child double his age and size. At this moment in time I'm thinking "fuck this" and checking out completely.

There is lots of solid advice here among the crap so to all of you who have taken the time, thank you.

OP, kids fight. I hate to break it to you but it’s likely something like this will happen at school, or that your DS will, eventually, harm another child in a moment of frustration/rage. My daughter (NT) for no reason picked up a plastic toy and hit another child in the head with it (she was absolutely told off and disciplined and it hasn’t happened again).

At 10 he’s on the ‘older’ end of this type of immaturity, but a 10 year old is far from an adult in their understanding of disability, impulse control, how they manage their emotions and anger. And this was ONE incident, where clearly he had had enough.

I think people are getting frustrated that you’re trying to minimise this nuance by making it a simple case of ‘older kid tries to punch small disabled boy in the face’. There’s a lot more to it than that. Not a single poster has said it was the right thing to do, just that it’s not as black and white as you’re making out.

Good luck whatever you decide to do

Oh I've listened, just not to people like you.

Did you skip my replies where I have thanked PP's for pointing me in the direction of useful resources. I have already bought the book a PP recommended on the first couple of page and signed up to Yvonne Newbolds webinar.

I just can't bare people like you who think insulting somebody is going to get a positive response. All you, and others, have done is piss me off.

The day DS hurts another child in school, or anywhere else, you will not catch me trying to minimise it. I'm not one of those parents who think their child is above reproach just because they have special needs.

If DS does what DSS did the other day then he'll be in trouble and it'll be dealt with in an appropriate way.

I'm not minimising the nuance, I'm just frustrated that people are minimising what happened to DS and even going as far as to say that DSS is at risk from him. It's absolutely ridiculous.

But what would you do to discipline DS that your DH hasn’t done with DSS?

She's considering going away for the weekend with her son so the step children have an easier ,quieter time with their dad.

She's taken suggestions of books and webinars.

She's taken suggestions about how to deal with the step children and their feeling and their father.

She's considering therapy, including family therapy.

What more do you want?

I haven't once said that OH didn't deal with it appropriately in terms of what he said to DSS.

I was annoyed that DS was made to apologise to DSS whilst no apology was forthcoming or encouraged from DSS. An unfair double standard.

I was also annoyed that instead of discussing it with me like an adult once DSC had gone home my OH decided to make himself unapproachable and explode at me.

I was concerned about the fact DSS resorted to that degree of violence as contrary to what some believe it is absolutely not normal for a 10yo to grab somebody by their jumper and go to punch them in the face.

@Cuppasoupmonster did you miss the part where the 4 yo had to apologise to DSS while DSS wasn't required to do the same?

Yes, he was verbally prevented from punching his brother as he should've been. He was also told off after.

Just like OP's son (as stated many times) is told off and has consequences for his behaviour and OP expresses to him when she finds his behaviour unacceptable. And is made to apologise on top. To the person that grabbed him and went to punch him.

Knowing that you shouldnt do something and actually not doing something are different.

For DSS to lose control there are usually some triggers and looked at.

I dont think anyone is saying he should have done what he did, but that one loss of control does not a bad child make - how it is handled from here is important. But I would say that your OH does not at the moment seem like this is going to happen or do it properly which is I think more of your issue.

I suspect as well that you both know that taking stuff out of the oven when you were out was no ideal timing and he is doubling down on this because he should have handled it better

Blood, she wants Blood (probably tears too) 🥴

I do agree that needs to be explored.

Ideally I'd like to talk to OH about doing exactly that, getting to the bottom of why he lashed out the way he did as it's important if we want to avoid it happening again.

Unfortunately I don't feel comfortable trying to talk to him about it any further between the two of us because I don't want to be shouted at again.

I have said I want to go to couples counselling which he has agreed to, so If that does happen I'll rehash it there with a therapist where he's not likely to act like a prat.

A lot here though is about your OH.

And whilst yes that level of losing control is possible in a 10 year old boy if certain factors are at play and whilst it isnt every child I imagine most schools deal with some kind of incident each day.

Factors are

Developmental Growth Spurt
Anxiety
Loss of Control
Feeling Disconnected
Big life changes/transitions/trauma
Temperament and personality
Anger is Modeled
Physical causes

Anger is modelled and a loss of control (possibly coupled with a developmental growth spurt and some life changes)

Given that you have more than once said your OH exploded at you and did not make him apologise means I would say he is very much the centre of your issues