Is this a compliment? *[content warning: concerns sexual abuse]

[Shell563]

Would you see it as a compliment if a partner said he couldn't stop himself when you were having sex?

So why isn't this? Where is the line?

The line is around your body and soul.

Compromise in a relationship is for things like choosing where to go on holiday, or whether to buy a house together and what to call your children. They can be big things, and you won't always get it your way completely, but that's okay. You understand that the other way of doing things has its merits too, and so you agree to meet somewhere in the middle. In a compromise, both people get most of what they want, and sacrifice a little bit.

There's no compromise when it comes to having/not having sex though. You might compromise in order to make time, you might negotiate different elements of what you do sexually - but this all depends very much on both partners wanting to have sex with one another.

If one partner doesn't want it, then that's the end of it. Every person has the right to full bodily autonomy. What you're talking about is not compromise but one person getting completely what they want, at the expense of the other person's feelings and mental health, every time.

Have you met any of his friends etc - Partners do things together go out met each others friends and family. That doesnt sound like what he is.

The ringing as well is controlling and abusive and the fact that twice he has been physical with you

The compromise between wanting sex and not wanting sex is having a wank. Having sex you do not want is never a compromise.

But he can't come over and kick off about you not answering your phone if you don't let him in your flat. Can you take some time to work out a plan of how to do this safely? Eg change the keycode, tell the carers not to let anyone in without your express permission, get it put on your care record? Maybe even stick a notice on the inside of the front door in case you get new/different carers? A poster up thread had a good order of the way to do it.

Surely you can do that without safeguarding worries, it's just a decision your carers have to respect? Seems terrible that the safeguarding worries are actually working to make you less safe in some ways.

You are being smart and sensible to consider he might get violent. I think you need advice from a domestic abuse charity - what about the links Mumsnet HQ posted up thread? Do you have anyone in real life that could come over and stay with you for a couple of days whilst you cut him off? I can imagine (a bit) how frightening it all seems.

You must be exhausted. But you're being so strong. 💪

Okay, so married couple, partner wants to move, the other doesn't. The one who would rather stay would be having to change jobs, move the kids, leave family. Is that okay?

I could post 100 examples (I'm not), most end up disadvantaging one partner, the female.

What if the damage was already there, so there is a chance the damage isn't caused by the new partner, not the old one? Or maybe not as bad.

What about my fighting question? I'm now doubting everything I thought I know.

What happened to me was horrible OP but what is happening to you is even worse. Just keep saying “his needs are not my problem”. You’re doing so well even to keep posting here - it can take a really long time to have the scales falling fully from your eyes which will be why you are struggling to see why none of this is your fault. You can trust that every poster who has shared their story believes that you don’t deserve what’s happening to you and thinks that this man is in the wrong - not you

Okay, so married couple, partner wants to move, the other doesn't. The one who would rather stay would be having to change jobs, move the kids, leave family. Is that okay?

A couple with a healthy dynamic would discuss various compromises before finding one that both were comfortable with.

And if one half of the couple wants something that the other one absolutely doesn't want, they are free to end the relationship.

And re: fighting - my DH and I dont fight. We have never shouted at each other, never put our hands on each other in anger.

if something is bothering us we discuss it, if we aren’t seeing eye to eye we park it and give each other a break and come back to it.

if there was a bereavement etc and one of us was lashing out we would make some allowances but abusive language or anything else is never ok with us. We also apologise to each other and acknowledge each other’s feelings. It’s taken me a really long time to get to this point though

Fighting wise in the 19 years we have been together there has never been any physical contact in anger or verabl insults.

We do disagree but they dont last long and we always apologise

Just catching up.
Firstly, you don't need to explain your reasons for making the thread to anyone, it's a good thing that you did. Even if this was a troll thread (which it isnt) I reckon there will be at least one person, at some point in time, who reads this and thinks 'god I could have written this!', and gets help through it too.

As for powering on through sex even if you don't want to, I couldn't think of anything worse. It's not something that women (that I know anyway) ever do. If you dont want to have sex theres literally nothing that could make it bearable. You're not abnormal for that. The problem isn't that you don't want to have sex, the problem is that he is forcing it. Even if you never wanted any sexual contact for the rest of your life, he should either accept that and stay with you regardless, or leave. He shouldn't make you feel like you owe him anything, you do not. I'm not asking for details of your relationship, but it reads as though that's all he comes over for. You're worth so much more than that. He might not be the most horrific abuser you've ever known but he's still an absolute scumbag and you do not need to settle for that.

As long as he is coming round your head is going to be all over the place... you need to find a way of putting a stop to his visits. Even if you feel like he might be upset or if you think you'll miss the company, it's NOT worth it!

Its all about doing things one step at a time, just as you have been doing! Maybe focus on getting this guy locked out of your home. If it's really difficult to say these things to his face, put them in a text. Tell him blunty in black and white you do not want to have sex with him, you think he has been taking advantage of you, and never to come to your house again. Tell him the relationship is over. Maybe once the burden and fear of him coming over are gone you'll feel so much better and things will be clearer for you.

As for the fighting... I've never had a fight with a partner but I've had plenty of arguments. My husband and I had an argument 2 days ago. But there wasn't any shouting or grabbing, just discussing differing opinions and, although it wasnt a pleasant conversation, it ended in a laugh and a cuddle before bed. Any physical escalation in an argument is worrying, an arm grab could become a slam against the wall or a punch or worse.

'Okay, so married couple, partner wants to move, the other doesn't. The one who would rather stay would be having to change jobs, move the kids, leave family. Is that okay?'

Recently I got married, days after the wedding we moved to his country for him to take over the family business. I left my job, sold my home and left my family and (for a while) my dogs. But I only moved because I wanted to. It was a mutual decision. If I hadn't wanted to move we would have worked something else out together. It's been a lot harder for me than i thought it would have been, I miss my family loads, and my husband has been amazing. He works twice as hard so I don't have to work at all and am free to go back and forward between countries. Everything he does he does for me, for us, and I am happy! If I wasn't happy, we wouldn't stay here. Relationships do include compromise, but not one person being massively disadvantaged while another gets everything they want. Just working together to find a solution that works for both of you. If that's not the type of compromises you're making in your relationship then it's probably not a healthy relationship.

OP, the line is drawn around your body. You are the only person who has any say over your body.

Compromising on the name of a joint child you both created is natural because it’s equally part of both of you, you’ll both be raising this new person.

Nobody else has any rights over your body, ever, for any reason. There is no compromise to be had there. Your body isn’t half your partner’s, unlike a joint child. It’s yours, and you only have to do what YOU want with it, really want, not just tolerate.

If your partner wanted you to pierce your nose or get a tattoo, but you didn’t want it, would you feel he had the right to make you?

This man has no respect for you as an autonomous person. He deserves nothing from you. You have put up with more than enough for a lifetime.

From reading your posts from today.

1. you don't like this guy
2. this guy doesn't actually like you
3. he is using you to fulfil his needs
4. you don't like this guy
5. you don't like this guy
6. erm....You don't like this guy!

Seriously it's shouting out from every post honey. Just ignoring EVERYTHING ELSE if you actually boil it all down to this one fact that you don't like him then honestly strip all the rest away and ask yourself why are you with a guy you don't like?

Is it because you are lonely? Or because you think someone is better than no-one?

If it's because you are lonely, then please trust me when I say lonely is better than your current situation. If its because you think someone is better than no-one then again honestly you would be better off on your own.

If it's because you think you deserve to be treated like this then I can categorically say you are wrong. I

Ooh and as for your fighting questions, some couples are happy when they are shouting at each other. Some like to get in each other's faces. It's all irrelevant. It's what you want in your relationship that matters. A relationship should make you happy content feel safe feel loved and wanted and most importantly heard. Yet this is making you miserable. It's time to end it. But only you can know what's going tho work best with this guy. Do you go for I've decided We are done please don't contact me again or just slowly become unavailable? Or is he Didn't of letting the police know he may turn nasty. Only you can make that call as to how much of an arse he is.

Disappointed x

The carers wouldn't question a keysafe code change, no. But him screaming or banging at the door, would be handed over I expect & on call told because of my ex. I cannot be sure about the safeguarding part. It seems so dependant on who you speak we on what action is taken.

I could call family, but I already rely on them too much.

I am exhausted, I wish I could calm down my brain.

I know the thread has moved on a bit with regards to you crying during sex but wanted to tell you about an experience when I was late teens or early 20s. Was having a hook up with a guy who's friend group hung out with mine. We were at his having sex, I was paranoid about my make up running so wiped under my eyes a couple times. He thought I was crying so immediately stopped, I reassured him that I wasn't crying, told him why I was rubbing my eyes and assured him I was enjoying myself. He wouldn't carry on and just cuddled me instead. This was just a casual fling and he was not risking me not being emphatically consenting (even though I actually was). My comfort mattered more than his sexual gratification.
I can also understand why you are so against safeguarding again. When you are being abused your agency is taken from you, your right to make decisions for yourself without fear or your abusers control dictating your decisions. Your abuser took away so much of your agency then the people who were safeguarding you and meant to make you feel protected and give you back control did exactly the same. They took away your right to make your own decisions about how to deal with removing yourself from the abuse, how and when it should be reported and other agencies involvement. They may have been making decisions with your best interests at heart, with your safety at the forefront but that doesn't mean that fear from the unknown with the added loss of control to make your own decisions was any less traumatic.
Also, men abusing you is not your fault. You have not done anything to deserve this, the only ones to blame are the abusers. So many people do not understand the grooming, coercive control, cycle of abuse and different dynamics of abusers that makes it hard for those in these situations to leave. Abusers often know when someone has had those reactions (sometimes literally) beaten into them. Not making eye contact, flinching, more susceptible to love bombing etc. Those types of reactions can be subconsciously displayed by survivors of abuse after years of grooming and predators can spot it and prey on those that are vulnerable because those buttons have been instilled by the prior abuser. That's one of the reasons why being in an abusive relationship may increase your chances of getting into another abusive relationship. This may be with a different type of abuser, where the abuse is deemed "not as bad" and therefore "acceptable". That's why dv counselling is so important and courses like the freedom programme. You may not feel it op but you have come a long way in just the couple days since you first posted, you are actually seeing the abuse for what it is, you are listening to your gut feeling telling you this is wrong, even though you were conditioned by your ex to ignore that voice because then you would be further punished for daring to question the horrific abuse you were subjected to. It probably doesn't feel like you have come anywhere and your brain is telling you to ignore it and fighting it because you were conditioned to not question it or worse would come, but you are breaking down that conditioning and that is a huge step. This was quite literally a survival mechanism. It also is not a linear journey, there will be steps back, wobbles and times where you feel like you are back at square one, but don't let that dishearten you or put you off. Keep reaching out and keep talking.

To whomever asked about being lonely, I am, a bit, but not that much of the time. I've become use to the time alone & the peace that come with it, every type of peace. When I said I've text him, it's not weekly, maybe 6weekly? & Even then usually just a chat. He has done some nice things for me, it's just complicated.

To those that answers the fighting question, thank you, even if it's all sounding a little Disney like. I've got to ask, do you all live happy little perfect lives? I'm not asking for details it's just my marriage was filled with stress after stress, & at least in that situation I felt those life stresses impacted a little, especially over time.

If someone does read this in the future & feel they are looking at a mirror, just end it. My experiences are not yours, my case with my husband tainted everything I see & do & only 3% of cases got to court, or fell apart days before court, like mine did.

I'm going to try & text something using suggestions from people & see if I can come up with something I don't think he can get out of. Thanks again

It's normal to have sex in a relationship, with someone you care about as part of a relationship. To show affection, to make them happy. I hated watching my partner in his rubbish band all those years ago. I went. How is this different?
It is normal to have consensual sex. Anything else is not normal.
The difference between sexual assault and seeing a partner's band you don't particularly care for is that one is causing physical and emotional harm, where going to a gig isn't.

I don't fully believe that most woman don't have sex when they don't want to because they care about their partner.
No, most women do not consent to sexual assault by their partners just to make them happy. You don't have to believe it, but it won't make it any less true and maybe you should start thinking about why you believe this hideous concept in the first place. Who taught you this?

The other group seemed to get loving someone means making sacrifices sometimes, with jobs, with the kids, free time, finances, all for a partner.
Loving someone never means sacrificing your bodily autonomy. Ever.
Compromise is for topics like what to have for lunch, where to go on holiday, how to manage spending - not who gets to control access to the woman's body.

Fighting. What is normal?
Physical contact is never normal. Not even "oh, I just grabbed his arm." That's horrifying that you think that's a regular occurrence!
I've been married 18 years and can count on one hand the number of times we have had an actual argument and those have never even once involved physical contact of any sort. Nor does it involve name calling, foul language, etc. as those things are over the line where it becomes verbal aggression.
We disagree about things weekly, but that's disagreeing and rational conversation, not arguing. There are no raised voices, and the focus is on the problem and the solution - not the other person.
If we were to actually argue any more frequently than we do, it would be too much. Yes, during times of stress one of us can be more waspish than normal, but you're right in that it is OK to make allowances for that kind of thing - as long as it ends, and it never escalates into physical violence, name calling, threats, profanity, etc. Once it becomes verbal aggression, it stops being something you make allowances for.

If you make allowances for the above, why does it only apply to verbal aggression?
A normal disagreement isn't verbal aggression. Anything that is verbal aggression is over the line and I wouldn't make allowances for that.

Isn't it selfish to always want things YOUR way?
Not when it comes to bodily autonomy and abuse. If it's something that causes mental or physical harm, you and no one else gets control. Compromising on dinner options doesn't cause mental or physical harm. Sexual assault does. That is why bodily autonomy is different.

Okay, so married couple, partner wants to move, the other doesn't. The one who would rather stay would be having to change jobs, move the kids, leave family. Is that okay?
This is where partners discuss and make compromises, working together on the problem and the solution. There's no parallel here with sexual assault.

To those that answers the fighting question, thank you, even if it's all sounding a little Disney like. I've got to ask, do you all live happy little perfect lives? I'm not asking for details it's just my marriage was filled with stress after stress, & at least in that situation I felt those life stresses impacted a little, especially over time.

absolutely not a perfect life I take sertraline for anxiety and depression, I’ve struggled with building friendships and social anxiety for years, a work situation I’m not happy with, bereavements. What I do have in my DH is someone who always supports me and who gives me room for my own wants and needs and feelings to be taken into account.

I had spent so many years and relationships squashing my own feelings down and prioritising men who didn’t deserve it because that’s what I had been conditioned to do. do you really honestly care for him? Or do you care about keeping him happy because you’re worried about what will happen if you don’t?

I've got to ask, do you all live happy little perfect lives? I'm not asking for details it's just my marriage was filled with stress after stress, & at least in that situation I felt those life stresses impacted a little, especially over time.

No - I dont think anyone lives a happy perfect life - how can you in the current environment it is just that the stresses and strains come from outside of the marriage in. So if we do have a disagreement it is normally situational based on outside factors rather than internal (if that makes sense). Sometimes he does something to annoy me (or I do to annoy him) but these are more minor irritations (socks on the floor or me not taking my cup through to the kitchen when he offers to make me one)

My life is anything but perfect, I'm the kinda person who if something can go wrong... it absolutely will! My car will break down on the way to the airport or I'll find the perfect job and the position is already filled, or like I said earlier I'm not with my family and that's really hard.
Nobody has a perfect life, but most people don't have to also deal with what you're dealing with, and will only stay in a relationship it is making their life better.

OP, I really wish I could just give you a massive hug. You need a fan club of supporters to help you through this horrible time. I hope the other posters on here are sounding like your fan club because you have had so much wonderful advice. I think you’ve made massive progress just through reading your posts. All I am going to say is “know your worth.” You deserve much more than the current situation.

How are you OP? Not sure if you are still watching the thread but have been thinking of you. I hope you're okay.

Yes, Tea Consent is fab - nice and clear.

How are you doing OP? Reading your later posts, it sounds like you've took some big steps forward and come to a realisation that the relationship isn't right. Hope you don't feel like you can't post here though if you haven't ended the relationship yet. I'm sure a lot of people who commented on the thread would just like to hear how you've been doing the past few days. Hope you're ok!

Just fyi, Relate do online and phone counselling on lots of aspects of relationships, not just "marriage councelling" and often you can participate alone. It's on a sliding scale I believe for people who will have problems paying, otherwise phone/online/in person is about £1 per min. With sessions going from about 30 mins. They do sex, marriage, mediation, family, dv, end of relationship counselling and much more. It might be worth a look for the op and for anyone else who may benefit.