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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Is this a compliment? *[content warning: concerns sexual abuse]

528 replies

Shell563 · 05/10/2022 01:16

Would you see it as a compliment if a partner said he couldn't stop himself when you were having sex?

OP posts:
tomorrowalready · 09/10/2022 13:18

Hi Shell, to go back to your original question. Surely a compliment is only a compliment if the person receiving it feels complimented as in feels nice, cheered up, reassured, confident, recognised. You've shown you don't feel that or only in the tiniest bit as being regarded as a sexual being. I think you are being more honest than a lot of people would be in admitting that but still being confused at what this individual man assumes he has been given permission for. There is still a widespread belief that any sexual attention should be welcomed by women and especially by those not meeting the 'norm' in some way. I say that as an obese older woman so I know what I am talking about. And how many threads are there by women in LTRs who object to being the constant object of their partner's sexual attentions? Their partners often state they should feel flattered.

So I think you are trying to work out if this unhappy relationship is worth it to you whatever the cost. Have you looked into exactly what you are getting out of continuing with your relationship? Are you not prepared to add to your feeling lonely? It is a hard thing to live with as is having to rely on strangers for intimate care. So maybe it is understandable you bargain with your feelings to get a space to decide to share your physical being. You, like anyone, can decide to have a relationship on your own terms or someone else's, or you can decide not to because you don't want the price you are currently paying. You can also change your mind.

Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 16:15

beastlyslumber · 08/10/2022 16:54

This thread reminds me of the story about the skeleton woman, whose bones were scattered all over the desert. She had to gather them up and put herself back together from nothing. Your story is so old, OP, that there are legends about it. Stories of how to bring ourselves back from the dead, sew our souls back into our bodies, and save our own lives.

It's not easy. No one is saying it's easy. No one here thinks you should just be able to click your fingers and change everything. Just keep inching forwards, little by little. You're going to get to the other side, and you're going to be so proud of yourself.

I think talking to the helpline people is good. You say you prefer to type rather than text, so just to let you know that Women's Aid has a 'chat' function. Also you can text or email the Samaritans. I used to volunteer for Samaritans and a lot of people emailed us. You can't see any identifying information on the emails that come through. You might find it easier to try and 'talk' that way. But do keep talking to the helpline as well.

Sorry for the delays in reply, I had a wobbly day.

I know I'm not the only one who has been hurt, & do get I need to help myself. Moving his hand away was a big step for me! I was fighting myself the whole time worried what may happen to me if I did it, how it could be worse, it MAY get worse, I didn't feel I had three right to stop him etc. All of this running around in your head, your heart thumping, trying to make it seem jokey so you don't offend & then he brings his hand back.

Sometimes I try, more often I don't. When I've tried to talk about it & I'm told it's just me & other woman do it, that it's not a big deal or won't take long, how do I counter that? I can't. Do I want it? No, I just want it done.

Re the organisation's you meantime, do they keep any records? Raise any alarms? I tend to associate the Samaritans with people about to end their lives.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 16:19

Watchkeys · 08/10/2022 17:37

Part of me thinks I SHOULD want it

Where does the 'should' come from? I mean, nothing in you is telling you that you want to do it; quite the opposite. So the 'You should do it' is external. It's someone or something else telling you that you should. Who or what is that? This will be key to your recovery. Currently there's some kind of external arbiter whose 'shoulds' you're having obey. Realising and recognising that that power over you does not exist is crucial.

Can you break it down, where that 'should' comes from, that tells you you 'should' allow men to do stuff to you, even when you don't want to? It's not this guy, is it, because it's happened before him.

The 'should'

I am female
I am a partner
It's normal
I care about him, in part
I want him to be happy
I'm scared what will happen if I don't
Men think I should

OP posts:
Watchkeys · 09/10/2022 16:26

Men think I should

You've met a few men who thought you should.

Most men don't. Your carers who are male don't. Any friends you've had who were male haven't. If you had 2 or 3 men tell you that you should stand on your head all day every Tuesday, would you think you should, or would you deem them loons?

It's normal

What does 'normal' mean, to you, in this context?

Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 16:28

Delilahonabike · 08/10/2022 18:02

I understand completely why you haven't stamped or shouted 'no' OP and the blame lies entirely with the men who have abused you, none of this is your fault. The trouble is that you can't change the behaviour of abusive men, all you can do is learn ways to protect yourself from having anything to do with them.

And that's what we want to help you with, everything else can be worked through afterwards and in your own time but for now we just need to work out how to stop him (or anyone) hurting you any more. You have a huge amount of support here, we can help you find the strength if you let us.

Thank you. I have no idea why strangers are so kind, but I am glad they are.

How does one stop something like this when they are not even sure it is wrong? Because I don't, not really. I spent the past day just going over & over things, wondering if I was doing the right thing. I don't understand how in one moment I can be so sure, then another convinced I'm wrong to challenge this.

I say I don't think all men are abusive, I want to mean it, but when the gas man came to look at my cooker & spent 2hours out there I was terrified. He didn't come near me, nothing happened obviously, but I cannot switch off this feeling that. In the right circumstances something bad could have happened. Not because I'm attractive, I'm far from it, but it seems every single man has a inner bastard.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 16:33

OldFan · 08/10/2022 18:23

Things like this make me doubt myself you see, I'd have thought the same "act" should result in the same feelings?

It feels worse @Shell563 because now you're more aware that what he's doing is not ok. You've become more aware it's r*pe, damaging and severe.

Also that you know you were planning to split up with him, and were more determined in that. So 'sex' with him is even more the opposite of what you wanted to do, and you didn't plan on it happening, even less than you didn't plan on it before. It's contrary to everything you want and know you need to do.

This is not a criticism, your situation is difficult. I just mean these reasons are probably part of why it felt worse. Plus you know he's evil and unpredictable now and who wants to shag someone evil.

But that is it! He isn't doing any of the really bad things so it doesn't feel like it's right for me to consider him evil, even if I'm repulsed by him more now.

How the bloody hell do I manage these feelings? In the past day my mood became very dark.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 16:43

OldFan · 08/10/2022 18:30

Here is something maybe you or someone will get. Deep down I think this can't be abuse, because how would I have found myself here again? What are the chances?

It's very common for women who've been in abusive relationships to end up in another abusive relationship.

  1. Childhood factors may have rendered them more vulnerable (this is something that can be worked on; recognizing red flags, building a 'shark cage' etc.)

  2. You have a disability so abusers might target you as you're more vulnerable, also quite isolated etc.

  3. Women think 'he's not abusive compared to the last one' so they put up with more than women who haven't been abused do. Of course, abusers tend to gradually get worse though.

Thank you for linking this, it should be played in schools.

So I need tools to build a shark cage, quickly.

I wish I could remove my past, not be female & disabled.

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 09/10/2022 16:48

Re the organisation's you meantime, do they keep any records? Raise any alarms? I tend to associate the Samaritans with people about to end their lives.

No, it's completely confidential and you can say whatever you like. There are no records or alarms. Even if someone is literally about to end their life, you can ask them to let you call an ambulance, but they would have to agree, give you their address etc. Even if they were concerned and wanted to contact the police or social services, they could only do this if you gave them your details. You don't have to give them any of these details. You can make it clear that you just want someone to listen.

You can ask to speak to a female if a man answers. A lot of people call or email about abusive relationships, or to talk about abuse in the past that they're remembering or thinking about. The majority of callers aren't suicidal, although we would always ask about that if they didn't bring it up. You get callers who are absolutely desperate and planning to end their lives, callers who are okay but just don't have anyone to talk to, and absolutely everyone in between.

The free 24-hour number is 116 123. Or you can email [email protected]

when the gas man came to look at my cooker & spent 2hours out there I was terrified

I can totally relate to this. I don't like strange men being in my home, or being in an enclosed space with a man I don't know well. These days I just feel uncomfortable and nervous - sometimes I can relax if the man seems obviously nice. But it's taken a long time to not just have a panic reaction. It's normal to be frightened of men when you've had such traumatic experiences. It doesn't mean all men are nasty or violent, it just means we can't tell which ones are and which ones aren't. Thankfully, the majority of men are lovely, but you have every right to keep yourself away from all men until such time as you feel safe enough to let someone near.

Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 16:48

DisappointedMasturbator · 08/10/2022 21:14

"I DO feel ashamed, so ashamed. I feel ashamed I've let this happen, because I did. I let them hurt me & now I'm bitching about it. I'm complaining to people who deserve better than to spend time on me"
@Shell563

Just picking up this from one of your posts. Of course you feel ashamed. That is natural. You're in a cycle of blame, shame and guilt. But it is not your shame. The shame is all on him. He knows what he's doing to you. He knows your not into him or it. He does it anyway. You are not to blame, you are reacting to past abuse. And you have done nothing to feel guilty about.

An abused woman is more likely to enter into further abusive relationships. That's a fact. It's not that you are doing something that no other woman would do. You are in fact reacting perfectly normally.

one day you will look back at this thread and marvel at how far you have come. But that Won't be tomorrow or next week or even next month. It's a long process you are just as the beginning so be kind to yourself and don't beat your self up if you don't get where you want to be straight away.

Just take strength in knowing that you can do this!

Ooh and anyone commenting on here is here because they want to be OK!

Disappointed x

Society seems an abused women, they offer her help, if she doesn't take it or returns to him more often than not she is judged by it, questioned for her choices, blamed even.

She doesn't reach out again.

Another thing. I don't want it to take weeks or months, coping with him today seems harder than coping with him a week ago. I'm not sure I'm strong enough.

OP posts:
beastlyslumber · 09/10/2022 16:57

What's stopping you from changing the key safe code today?

You could delete his number from your phone.

Then it would be over.

Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 17:04

heyyahhhh · 09/10/2022 00:18

Hey I didn’t mean to cause any offence at all. I have no clue what it feels like to be “disabled” in the eyes of the law and have “measures” put upon you. I see a human being being harmed who needs to be alone and heal. As a fellow human being who sees her in pain in others. I wish I could help you. (I also understand why people think you are trolling) if you are genuine, I wish you the best, if not, touch grass

You didn't cause offence, well maybe a bit, but I get it. When people on other posts are, I believe, hinting at a poster being a troll I often don't get. I've only posted my own post three times, this is the first time I've been considered a troll.

Maybe it's because I view a troll post as someone with lots of very dramatic posts, or who is incredibly unlucky at one time & has 9 kids by 5 fathers, 4 of whom were abusive. 7 kids are disabled, 2 dying, she's just had a close death in the family, is being made homeless & has no food.

Or whatever mixture of 100 different life events clash at once.

I'm starting to think more people have shitty pasts than they show, maybe the poster with the extreme example above is actually real. My life use to be very vanillia until my ex husband, then it turned into coronation st.

I was enjoying being vanilla again.

OP posts:
Qwerkie · 09/10/2022 17:19

You can go back to vanilla if you want to OP - it doesn’t have to always be like this.

the last time I had sex with a particular ex I was crying the whole time. I tried to hide it from him but there’s no way a man can have sex with a reluctant woman and not realise she doesn’t want it. I didn’t say no, I didn’t push his hands away but I still only let him because I was afraid of the consequences. This man is getting off on the fact you don’t want it, that’s why he keeps coming back. There’s nothing wrong with you.

the first time my DH kissed me I cried because no man had ever touched me so gently before. There are good men out there - but equally you are perfectly entitled to never have sex ever again.

do you and your partner ever go out anywhere? Or does he only come round for one reason?

also you say he has needs. So what? You have needs too. You need him to stop what he’s doing. You need him to stop coming round. YOU are allowed to need things and to want things for yourself. Try saying it to yourself - I want or I need and come up with a list of things. Or I deserve…as in you deserve respect. You deserve kindness. You deserve to decide who touches you.

Cavagirl · 09/10/2022 17:23

How does one stop something like this when they are not even sure it is wrong? Because I don't, not really. I spent the past day just going over & over things, wondering if I was doing the right thing. I don't understand how in one moment I can be so sure, then another convinced I'm wrong to challenge this.

You don't want it. So why does it need to meet a standard of "wrong" before you will allow yourself to accept that you don't want it, and take action?

You are tying yourself in knots trying to determine whether what he's doing is wrong enough for you to say no, stop coming around. It doesn't matter. It doesn't have to meet some external standard of "wrong". You don't want it. Why does anything else matter?

Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 17:25

tomorrowalready · 09/10/2022 13:18

Hi Shell, to go back to your original question. Surely a compliment is only a compliment if the person receiving it feels complimented as in feels nice, cheered up, reassured, confident, recognised. You've shown you don't feel that or only in the tiniest bit as being regarded as a sexual being. I think you are being more honest than a lot of people would be in admitting that but still being confused at what this individual man assumes he has been given permission for. There is still a widespread belief that any sexual attention should be welcomed by women and especially by those not meeting the 'norm' in some way. I say that as an obese older woman so I know what I am talking about. And how many threads are there by women in LTRs who object to being the constant object of their partner's sexual attentions? Their partners often state they should feel flattered.

So I think you are trying to work out if this unhappy relationship is worth it to you whatever the cost. Have you looked into exactly what you are getting out of continuing with your relationship? Are you not prepared to add to your feeling lonely? It is a hard thing to live with as is having to rely on strangers for intimate care. So maybe it is understandable you bargain with your feelings to get a space to decide to share your physical being. You, like anyone, can decide to have a relationship on your own terms or someone else's, or you can decide not to because you don't want the price you are currently paying. You can also change your mind.

I never considered that. I viewed it as he was so happy to be with me he just couldn't stop. Yes, I know that sounds a tiny bit like an excuse, but I'm not a man, & I clearly have messed up views in this area, what do I know?

Maybe other woman would take this as a compliment, that's how I viewed it. That it was me being messed up in this area, & if I wasn't being reasonable, then I needed to find a solution.

Re the relationship it's self. My disability has progressed some what to when it started. I'm not incapable, not at all, but I am stuck needing help. Family do bits, but I've no siblings, my parents are just off 80. I won't have them forever.

Care companies are terrible, the carers themselves vary a lot, & you see so many. I get a lot of care compared to most, but since when did the system provide enough? You survive, not live. I'm saying this to get sympathy, I'm afraid unless every poster on Mumsnet has a lot of money spare or family to give up their own lives they too maybe in the system, hopefully further towards the later years.

When my partner came out of the shadows after all those years I was surprised. He had been, I guess, maybe abusive physically in the past, just twice, he was very drunk & in a bad place & I wasn't injured.
He doesn't drink now, he has not been physically abusive since.

Sometimes in recent months I've text him when I've been lonely, just to talk, pathetic as it is. When I finally noticed it would sometimes mean he would come over to see me I stopped doing it, mostly. I would try to distract him though.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 17:39

Watchkeys · 09/10/2022 16:26

Men think I should

You've met a few men who thought you should.

Most men don't. Your carers who are male don't. Any friends you've had who were male haven't. If you had 2 or 3 men tell you that you should stand on your head all day every Tuesday, would you think you should, or would you deem them loons?

It's normal

What does 'normal' mean, to you, in this context?

I have no male carers, it's part of my plan. There is no way I'd allow that.

It's normal to have sex in a relationship, with someone you care about as part of a relationship. To show affection, to make them happy. I hated watching my partner in his rubbish band all those years ago. I went. How is this different?

If you listen to men they would be close to death without it. It's what woman do, & to be honest I don't fully believe that most woman don't have sex when they don't want to because they care about their partner.

I researched on Mumsnet weeks & weeks ago, not hunting for sex tips, but trying to find out to just cope with what was happening.

Most posters said the woman shouldn't have sex if they don't want it, but not all. I viewed the first group as that atypical Mumsnet poster with a perfect life & limited worries, not those struggling. I also felt that people fall into habits they aren't aware of.

The other group seemed to get loving someone means making sacrifices sometimes, with jobs, with the kids, free time, finances, all for a partner.

Are they all abused woman?

I know woman who have brought houses in another country or the other side of the country away from family & friends for their partner, are they abused? I assume not.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 17:56

Can I ask another stupid question?

Fighting. What is normal?

I don't mean physically, although again I would argue that everyone when having a verbal fight has grabbed their partners arm to get their attention? Is that okay? No bruising left.

Have you often had verbal fights with a partner? How often is too often? What crosses the line language wise?

Do you make allowances for stress; death of family member, addiction, job loss, financial issues, mental health, illness etc?

What about long term stress from above? How long do you accept that anger?

If you make allowances for the above, why does it only apply to verbal aggression?

OP posts:
Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 18:11

beastlyslumber · 09/10/2022 16:48

Re the organisation's you meantime, do they keep any records? Raise any alarms? I tend to associate the Samaritans with people about to end their lives.

No, it's completely confidential and you can say whatever you like. There are no records or alarms. Even if someone is literally about to end their life, you can ask them to let you call an ambulance, but they would have to agree, give you their address etc. Even if they were concerned and wanted to contact the police or social services, they could only do this if you gave them your details. You don't have to give them any of these details. You can make it clear that you just want someone to listen.

You can ask to speak to a female if a man answers. A lot of people call or email about abusive relationships, or to talk about abuse in the past that they're remembering or thinking about. The majority of callers aren't suicidal, although we would always ask about that if they didn't bring it up. You get callers who are absolutely desperate and planning to end their lives, callers who are okay but just don't have anyone to talk to, and absolutely everyone in between.

The free 24-hour number is 116 123. Or you can email [email protected]

when the gas man came to look at my cooker & spent 2hours out there I was terrified

I can totally relate to this. I don't like strange men being in my home, or being in an enclosed space with a man I don't know well. These days I just feel uncomfortable and nervous - sometimes I can relax if the man seems obviously nice. But it's taken a long time to not just have a panic reaction. It's normal to be frightened of men when you've had such traumatic experiences. It doesn't mean all men are nasty or violent, it just means we can't tell which ones are and which ones aren't. Thankfully, the majority of men are lovely, but you have every right to keep yourself away from all men until such time as you feel safe enough to let someone near.

Can email addresses not be traced in an emergency?
Good to know, thank you for telling me.

Being frightened of such a large percentage of the human race makes me feel crazy. Especially because when the abuse with my husband came out even some of the professionals around me had an abusive ex. It was sad, but I felt less isolated, although pathetic because I was this absolute crying mess being asked if I felt safe & I didn't. I felt safer, not safe. They on the other hand had jobs that involved the public, some of them with risk. It made me feel small.

How do you now decide who is safe? Believe me I've spent so much time trying to find out what these arses have in common, they don't look alike, share hobbies or careers, height, weight, nothing. It's every man.

I even tried making myself less appealing, not that I was much to look at before, especially with with my health, but anything to not be noticed.

OP posts:
BadNomad · 09/10/2022 18:21

Most posters said the woman shouldn't have sex if they don't want it, but not all. I viewed the first group as that atypical Mumsnet poster with a perfect life & limited worries, not those struggling. I also felt that people fall into habits they aren't aware of.

The other group seemed to get loving someone means making sacrifices sometimes, with jobs, with the kids, free time, finances, all for a partner.

Those women are women like you who don't realise or accept that men aren't entitled to sex and that women aren't obligated to provide sex that they don't want. A lot of women let things happen to them because they think they need to as part of their relationships. And, sadly, there are some men who don't care if the woman doesn't want to do it. That is abusive.

tomorrowalready · 09/10/2022 18:44

Shell, if I may can I suggest that you can also give yourself permission to postpone dwelling on this question for a while? Maybe an evening or a day to distract yourself with something you actually enjoy for yourself? Since your conundrum seems at the moment unresolvable perhaps you could make some excuse to your partner to avoid his visits I say this because I have followed your thread off and on and as an internet stranger it is emotionally draining so it must be exhausting for you as well as evidently feeling obliged to be considerate to contributors here. You have so much to think about, it probably will take quite a while to begin to come to terms with. As other posters have said it's not a failure not to have the answers or solution straightaway. It's your life, your body, your feelings that matter. You have every right to do what you wish with them regardless of what this partner or other women might do or think.

Dervel · 09/10/2022 18:49

Of course relationships require compromise to work, BUT that rhetoric doesn’t apply when damage occurs. That goes for physical, emotional or psychological damage.

I cannot stress this enough there is no way in hell I would want any woman I was in love with to be experiencing trauma as a result of our relationship.

Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 19:28

BadNomad · 09/10/2022 18:21

Most posters said the woman shouldn't have sex if they don't want it, but not all. I viewed the first group as that atypical Mumsnet poster with a perfect life & limited worries, not those struggling. I also felt that people fall into habits they aren't aware of.

The other group seemed to get loving someone means making sacrifices sometimes, with jobs, with the kids, free time, finances, all for a partner.

Those women are women like you who don't realise or accept that men aren't entitled to sex and that women aren't obligated to provide sex that they don't want. A lot of women let things happen to them because they think they need to as part of their relationships. And, sadly, there are some men who don't care if the woman doesn't want to do it. That is abusive.

Isn't it selfish to always want things YOUR way?

If compromise is part of a relationship, & I assume that it is going by the no of posts like

"my partner likes James as a name but I like but I like Alfie & hate James, what do we do" that never gets followups like "your body, your choice, James wins" that compromise is okay?

So why isn't this? Where is the line?

OP posts:
Quartz2208 · 09/10/2022 19:33

"my partner likes James as a name but I like but I like Alfie & hate James, what do we do" that never gets followups like "your body, your choice, James wins" that compromise is okay?

Actually to be fair they often do say you have carried the baby it is your choice. But this is somehwere where you can compromise and pick different ones. But also as parents it is a joint decision to make. There are a wide range of choices you can make

Your body Your Choice is absolute. You and you alone have the right to decide what happens to you.

And he does have a choice - he either accepts what you are offering or he goes.

beastlyslumber · 09/10/2022 19:35

Can email addresses not be traced in an emergency?

They can email you back if you've emailed them, but they can't trace you from your email address. If you're worried, just set up a gmail account to email them from.

Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 19:38

beastlyslumber · 09/10/2022 16:57

What's stopping you from changing the key safe code today?

You could delete his number from your phone.

Then it would be over.

I could, physically I could, but he doesn't like it when I don't answer the phone quickly. He questions what I've been up to, who I'm with etc, sometimes he turns up out of the blue & goes on & on & on at me. I hate it. Then he will question why I'm crying, he will try to make it up to me, leading back to what I don't want.

If he does that when carers are around I will be questioned. If he does that & kicks off he will get aggressive, how aggressive, I'm not sure, but I clearly remember the two times he was physical with me. It wasn't recent & it wasn't that bad really, but I remember it clearly.

I know I'm not being fair to him by judging him by the past, I'm sorry. He said we had moved on, I agreed, but deep down I've not forget.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shell563 · 09/10/2022 19:46

Qwerkie · 09/10/2022 17:19

You can go back to vanilla if you want to OP - it doesn’t have to always be like this.

the last time I had sex with a particular ex I was crying the whole time. I tried to hide it from him but there’s no way a man can have sex with a reluctant woman and not realise she doesn’t want it. I didn’t say no, I didn’t push his hands away but I still only let him because I was afraid of the consequences. This man is getting off on the fact you don’t want it, that’s why he keeps coming back. There’s nothing wrong with you.

the first time my DH kissed me I cried because no man had ever touched me so gently before. There are good men out there - but equally you are perfectly entitled to never have sex ever again.

do you and your partner ever go out anywhere? Or does he only come round for one reason?

also you say he has needs. So what? You have needs too. You need him to stop what he’s doing. You need him to stop coming round. YOU are allowed to need things and to want things for yourself. Try saying it to yourself - I want or I need and come up with a list of things. Or I deserve…as in you deserve respect. You deserve kindness. You deserve to decide who touches you.

I'm sorry for what happened to you. It must have been horrible. I'm glad you found someone good.

I find it amazing any women trust again.

We don't go out, he is very busy with his business, I get it.

I shall try what you suggested, it just feels a bit silly when I don't believe it fully.

OP posts: