My husband gives me permission to go out, and I feel grateful FFS - is this trauma bonding??

[Moonah]

I have friends. My H doesn't have any. A night out was arranged this week, and it struck me much later that (1) my H gave me permission to go, and (2) that I actually felt grateful that he gave me permission. I hadn't realised this happened before now, and it's caused me to really examine my own feelings and reactions to him, and I've realised that when my friends arrange a night out, I dread telling my H and I put off mentioning it. When I do eventually tell him, my heart beats faster and I get a knot of tension in my stomach. His response is always to either frown and look angry and say 'Are you going?' in a really annoyed tone, or to pause and then say 'You can go if you want'. If the former, I then feel worried and chew on it for hours (and if I'm brave enough to ask why he's annoyed, he always denies that he is, but again in an annoyed tone, and then he's off with me for hours). But if he says I can go, I actually feel grateful and relieved.

There's so much wrong else in this relationship. It's a constant cycle of him alternating between being moody and being lovely. I'm on eggshells, then I'm relaxed, I'm on eggshells, then I'm relaxed: over and over and over, all depending on my H's mood. When he's stressed or busy, he takes his moods out on me – snapping at me and being horrible to me, banging about, slamming doors, loud irritated sighs, etc., but then denying it if I ask him what's wrong: "nothing" is his stock answer. And then I'm tense and worried. We've just had 4 days of him being angry about something that happened at work, and I've been tense and walking on eggshells for all that time. Then yesterday, he suddenly gave me a hug and told me he loved me (no apology: there's never an apology because he is never ever in the wrong, ever) and I was flooded with gratefulness and relief, and now he's back to being really nice again, relaxed and laughing and joking.

There are loads of other things: he's a compulsive liar, he regularly gives me me silent treatment, he refuses to discuss any issues, he's resentful and holds silent grudges for years, he messes with my stuff behind my back then pretends he hasn't. He's fussy and controlling. He's never wrong - if I mention an issue then he instantly denies it and turns it back on me so I end up confused and believing I'm the one in the wrong. We haven't had sex for 10 years, we don't hold hands or kiss, and there's only affection when he's going through a nice cycle. But when it IS a nice cycle - which is about half of the time - he's funny and good company and we get on so well, and I just love those times.

I recognise all this. I know this is a shit relationship. I've got a job, I earn (just about) enough to finance a solo life, we don't have children, I've got a lot of friends and people like me, I've got hobbies and interests. I'd be totally fine living alone, so I have literally no idea why I stay - apart from the times when he's lovely, and those feelings of floods of relief and gratefulness, and I just want to stay here with him in this relationship so strongly that I keep repeating this ridiculous cycle, and I just know if I left I'd miss him so much.

If this was a friend of mine telling me this I'd tell her to run for the hills. It's fucking ludicrous. Even typing this, I'm annoyed at how pathetic I am. So I googled this morning 'why do I feel grateful when my partner is nice to me' and ended up down this rabbit hole of abusive relationships and trauma bonding. Is that what this is??

I'm 55 and we've been together for 30 years.

Hi everyone. I thought I'd come back and give an update - mainly because if anyone else is in a similar situation to mine then it might be helpful for them. I know I've always got a lot from other threads in the past where the OP updated how they went through with leaving a crap relationship anyway.

So it's been over a month since I posted and I've got loads done. I think I said I was at around 70% certainty about leaving H at that time. I'm now at 100%. I know - huge difference! I've come a long way.

I've been having therapy, and that's been eye opening. My therapist is AMAZING. She totally gets my husband (she's an expert in abuse) and has made me realise that no, I'm not going mad, I'm not imagining it - my H is abusive; and whether it's intentional or not is irrelevant, the fact he had a terrible childhood with narcissistic parents is also irrelevant - he's emotionally abusing me and it's never going to improve. So my choices are stark: (1) stay and accept being abused forever, or (2) leave. I choose option 2!

Rentals are proving to be a nightmare. There's so much competition and I keep losing out. I did book an AirBnB for 2 months, but it got pulled by the owner and it's put me off. For a while, I considered doing AirBnBs and moving around for a bit of an adventure, but this first place falling through put me off and I changed my mind, thinking a bit of stability might be a better plan. So I'm back looking for rentals.

I've also paid for and seen a solicitor. That, along with the therapy, was the best money I ever spent. Here's what I've been doing since:

• Saw a mortgage broker and got a certificate of what I could feasibly borrow on my own. This is needed so that we can decide how much to push for in the divorce.

• Priced up cheapest and average houses in my house. Same reason as above.

• Got together a list of all account numbers: joint, mine, his. This is because the solicitor will write to him as soon as I move out with this list of accounts and ask him for balances. He will also have to provide statements and accounts going back several months, so he won't get away with trying to hide or move money.

• Scanned photos and saved to a cloud account.

• Got a current mortgage balance.

• Did online estimates of house valuation (I do need a proper valuation but I can't do that without H knowing, so that will have to wait until the time I tell him I'm leaving).

• Scanned important documents: marriage certificate, insurance, house deeds, mortgage details, etc.

• Written a list of all the house contents.

• I'm also slowly clearing out old clothes, paperwork and general 30 years of crap!

• Got together other important things in one place in a folder: my driving licence, passport, birth certificate).

I think that's everything, practically speaking. I'll deal with the emotional side of things in another post!

Thank you updating us, that's actually a really helpful checklist, so to speak, for someone in a similar situation.

I'm really pleased you d found the strength to do this. Good luck!

I recognise all this. I know this is a shit relationship. I've got a job, I earn (just about) enough to finance a solo life, we don't have children, I've got a lot of friends and people like me, I've got hobbies and interests. I'd be totally fine living alone, so I have literally no idea why I stay

You got it right the first time - you are trauma bonded.

See a counsellor. Also a solicitor. You know hes not going to change & your life isn't going to improve if you stay.

And well done for spotting the pattern, researching it, & asking for support here.

The other issue I've got is, he's life's eternal victim. He thinks everyone else is always out to get him. He cannot stand anyone else getting what he perceives to be the upper hand on him, and he'll fight tooth and nail to be the 'winner'. I've seen him try to get colleagues in trouble at work when they've crossed paths with him for the most minor slights. So once he realises that this time I'm serious, he'll switch from being lovely to me to trying to destroy me financially, mentally, any way he can

He can't destroy you financially - you have the legal protection of marriage, & you will hire an excellent lawyer - no?
He won't destroy you emotionally if you keep talking to your friends in real life & posting on here.

Mentally, I'm struggling with this limbo feeling. I want this marriage over with now, but being stuck until I find somewhere to go and until I've got my stuff cleared is tough going.

For a while, and actually even now with my eyes wide open and the scales well and truly fallen, I could really see myself staying with him. It's just so much easier to stay and just let him be in charge of me and control me. I now can totally see why abused women stay. It's such a weird thing that's impossible for anyone who's not experienced this to understand, but the compulsion to stay and just give in to them and let them boss you around is really really strong. I can't even describe it sufficiently. I'm still very strongly wanting to appease him all the time, and trying not to annoy him. I'm like a dog trying to please its master who kicks it around. Even when planning to leave him, I'm constantly thinking "Uh oh he's going to be so angry with me when he finds out" and also feeling like I need him to give me his permission to leave. If he doesn't permit it, then it's almost like I'm not allowed to leave him.

Like I said, it's mad. I can't describe it well. I know, practically speaking, that if course he's not in charge of me and of course I don't need his permission to end this marriage. But my subconscious certainly doesn't know that! It's exhausting and draining.

H is being horrible lately. His behaviour is getting much worse. It's like he knows - although he can't possibly because I've hidden my tracks really well. But he probably senses me withdrawing somewhat, which I can't help no matter how normal I try to act. So he's being moody and irritable the majority of the time. I can't do a thing right at the moment, and my sheer presence just annoys him no end.

Cracking updates OP you are doing so well.

And I'm okay with being skint, living in a crappy flat or tiny house, no nice holidays, crappy clothes. I'll get by. I just need to get from here to there. That's what I need strength for.
I think you may be surprised at what you can afford, once your solicitor has been able to detail all marital assets.

Thank you for updating. I'm still stuck in limbo so being able to see others are doing it gives me hope.

Being in an abusive relationship causes depression. Lack of motivation and lack of "oommphh"/energy are classic signs of depression. This makes you feel stuck which causes more depression and so a vicious circle begins. I am slowly realising that my mh needs to be better before I start the physical process of leaving despite knowing my mh will be better once gone. And reading posts like yours and seeing your energy emphasises it more even if you didn't mean to. Thank you ❤

On the rare occasions I've threatened to leave, he has been horrified at the thought of us splitting up, he says he can't imagine life without me, and instantly switches into loving mode and being really affectionate.

Have you tried telling him you're going to leave every time he kicks up a fuss about you going out?

OK, it's not a solution, but it would be interesting to see how far he could keep up the loving facade if he thought there was a serious danger of you leaving if he doesn't stop this behaviour.

I left an abusive relationship in 2007 and I think that the anaesthetic that numbs you to the intensity of the pain and the grief and the indignity and the humiliation of what you're enduring is also what stops you putting one foot in front of the other and walking away.

I did walk away and thank goodness but it seemed so hard before I did it. It only seemed obvious afterwards.

What you described .... except the going out part.... is EXACTLY the relationship my XH and l had.

I didn't have the courage or confidence to go it alone.... so stayed getting more and more miserable and anxious....

And then he met the OW and left... l could have kissed her!!

These last 5 years have been the best I've had... my anxiety is gone, and friends/family say I'm a completely different person.

Have you enquired about flats for the over 55s? They are not just for the very elderly and infirm. You just have to be over 55 to rent one where I live. Lots of widows and divorcees do. Maybe just until your half of the house money is available.

Don’t forget details of his pensions. Make a note of everywhere he’s worked where you’ve been together.

You’re not pathetic OP. I had a relationship like this once (or twice). And I completely loved him, and when he was lovely, I fancied the pants off him and loved his sweet smile and couldn’t imagine letting him go. MNers can easily say “LTB!” - and I DO think you should leave. But of course you love him - it’s just the love is YOU, not him. You’re a loving person, you can’t hold onto anger or blame… that’s a lovely thing. Unfortunately it’s being wasted on this partner. Spread your wings and fly and find out what would happen if you turned that love and forgiveness and energy on YOURSELF.

Well done OP. Stick with it, it’s an investment in a better future.

OP, years of emotional abuse by a covert narc will have worn down your resilience, along with the trauma binding (been there).

it’s going to be up and down for quite a while. Just keep putting one foot after the other, in a mostly forward direction. But don’t worry if there are times you feel stuck, that’s normal.

totally understand about the compulsion to stay. Have a look at the literature on mind control in cults - that is essentially what covert narc abuse is. Same tactics, same use of guilt, isolation and shaming (through moods etc) if you dissent.

the process of separating from the mind control is not immediate, it takes time and there are ups and downs. It will even out eventually.

good news is tha5 you are very sure on your forward direction and you are taking action. So that shows how strong you are, and how well you’re doing. The time will come when all this will be in thr past, and then you’ll see how strong you were.

When you divorce you'll get half the house and any assets so you wont be skint!
Take it as earnings for all the pain and mental torture he has put you through.
You've earned it now leave.
Plus you get half of his pension so kick him hard in the financial nuts! 🌰🌰what a prick ;)

What a spectacularly successful update OP 👏 .

Amazing.

Of course you are nervous and worn out.

30 years of that is very hard to imagine.

How did your stay with your sister go?

Is that an option just to get out and stay until you find a studio space?

Please remember you don’t have to give your husband notice you’re leaving. It’s often safer to just go. Can you stay with a friend? Family? You could look at renting a static caravan or a holiday lodge type place - would be cosy and cheaper this time of the year.
Good luck, I know it’s a scary thing to do but I can promise you you’ll feel so much happier and freer.

@Moonah - ring all the local letting agents - you will find out quicker that way what rentals are available - I told mine I was leaving 4 days before I left - but is was horrific those four days living there.....only you know whether its right to tell him or not once you find a place

I'm sorry you're still stuck, Pixie I hope you manage to find a way out soon.

What you said makes sense - I'm very definitely fighting an overwhelming sense of apathy and generally just wanting to roll over and stay with him. Sorting all my stuff out, seeing the solicitor and therapist, getting together financials, mortgage broker, etc - it's just SO MUCH.

That's why I wrote the list of things to do - because it was all just swirling around my head all the time. That way, I could put the list away mentally and ignore it if I needed to, but every now and then I could do something small from the list - scan a few photos for example, or do a Google search for mortgage brokers.

I'm definitely going to get a place sorted before I tell him I'm leaving. I do need to get the house valued though, and I'm not quite sure ywt how to time doing that. The solicitor said that while H isn't legally allowed to block my access to the house while I'm still on the deeds/mortgage, he can certainly make it harder for me to gain access again once I move out. He might also do things like make sure the house is a tip for the valuation or pretend to be out or something when the valuer comes. If I'm still living there, I have more control over making sure the valuation happens sooner rather than later.

I'm thinking of booking the valuation, then telling H the day before that I'm leaving and that the house is being valued the next day. Once that's done, I can go.

Thanks everyone, and thanks for the ideas for potential places to stay when I leave. I'll look into those as options too.

I don't have anyone I can stay with unfortunately. Lots of friends, but they either don't have space or they have children/husbands where it just wouldn't work.

Loved your update list OP. Well done! You've got this.

OP,

I would take a detailed video of each room of the house so that if he decides to do any damage you will have proof.

Also a video might give you a good provisional valuation, as you could measure up the house as well.