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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My husband gives me permission to go out, and I feel grateful FFS - is this trauma bonding??

181 replies

Moonah · 24/09/2022 09:24

I have friends. My H doesn't have any. A night out was arranged this week, and it struck me much later that (1) my H gave me permission to go, and (2) that I actually felt grateful that he gave me permission. I hadn't realised this happened before now, and it's caused me to really examine my own feelings and reactions to him, and I've realised that when my friends arrange a night out, I dread telling my H and I put off mentioning it. When I do eventually tell him, my heart beats faster and I get a knot of tension in my stomach. His response is always to either frown and look angry and say 'Are you going?' in a really annoyed tone, or to pause and then say 'You can go if you want'. If the former, I then feel worried and chew on it for hours (and if I'm brave enough to ask why he's annoyed, he always denies that he is, but again in an annoyed tone, and then he's off with me for hours). But if he says I can go, I actually feel grateful and relieved.

There's so much wrong else in this relationship. It's a constant cycle of him alternating between being moody and being lovely. I'm on eggshells, then I'm relaxed, I'm on eggshells, then I'm relaxed: over and over and over, all depending on my H's mood. When he's stressed or busy, he takes his moods out on me – snapping at me and being horrible to me, banging about, slamming doors, loud irritated sighs, etc., but then denying it if I ask him what's wrong: "nothing" is his stock answer. And then I'm tense and worried. We've just had 4 days of him being angry about something that happened at work, and I've been tense and walking on eggshells for all that time. Then yesterday, he suddenly gave me a hug and told me he loved me (no apology: there's never an apology because he is never ever in the wrong, ever) and I was flooded with gratefulness and relief, and now he's back to being really nice again, relaxed and laughing and joking.

There are loads of other things: he's a compulsive liar, he regularly gives me me silent treatment, he refuses to discuss any issues, he's resentful and holds silent grudges for years, he messes with my stuff behind my back then pretends he hasn't. He's fussy and controlling. He's never wrong - if I mention an issue then he instantly denies it and turns it back on me so I end up confused and believing I'm the one in the wrong. We haven't had sex for 10 years, we don't hold hands or kiss, and there's only affection when he's going through a nice cycle. But when it IS a nice cycle - which is about half of the time - he's funny and good company and we get on so well, and I just love those times.

I recognise all this. I know this is a shit relationship. I've got a job, I earn (just about) enough to finance a solo life, we don't have children, I've got a lot of friends and people like me, I've got hobbies and interests. I'd be totally fine living alone, so I have literally no idea why I stay - apart from the times when he's lovely, and those feelings of floods of relief and gratefulness, and I just want to stay here with him in this relationship so strongly that I keep repeating this ridiculous cycle, and I just know if I left I'd miss him so much.

If this was a friend of mine telling me this I'd tell her to run for the hills. It's fucking ludicrous. Even typing this, I'm annoyed at how pathetic I am. So I googled this morning 'why do I feel grateful when my partner is nice to me' and ended up down this rabbit hole of abusive relationships and trauma bonding. Is that what this is??

I'm 55 and we've been together for 30 years.

OP posts:
Maytodecember · 24/09/2022 18:26

On the rare occasions I've threatened to leave, he has been horrified at the thought of us splitting up, he says he can't imagine life without me, and instantly switches into loving mode and being really affectionate.

That in a nutshell shows how controlling he is. My exh was also a long term victim of life, how awful his first wife left him, how awful he lost his business, poor him. Again, it’s part of the control to bond you to them.
Break out. He’ll survive, I bet he meets someone else within 6 months, the cycle will start again.
You will have a much happier, less traumatic life without him.

2catsandhappy · 25/09/2022 07:59

You could be in a new place by Christmas.
I really hope you are.

Always4Brenner · 25/09/2022 08:14

mewkins · 24/09/2022 17:03

How bizarre. Surely leaving and being single is better than living the rest of your life walking on eggshells. I seriously hope none of your friends approach you who are in abusive relationships and you tell them to stay 😮

I know it’s awful advice isn’t it I’ve never seen anything so horrific.

Doingprettywellthanks · 25/09/2022 08:27

2catsandhappy · 25/09/2022 07:59

You could be in a new place by Christmas.
I really hope you are.

Absolutely no chance

wellhelloitsme · 25/09/2022 09:07

@Doingprettywellthanks

Absolutely no chance

What a shitty thing to post when you don't know OP and she's clearly starting to wake up to his abuse and is making plans to leave.

Moonah · 25/09/2022 09:18

Pixiedust1234 · 24/09/2022 16:18

I have no further advice as I am you but without the benefit of being financially independent. I have collated all paperwork and now I am stuck. I have no idea if he can guess but he's being the nicest hes ever been. My ill health doesn't help with the procrastination either.

There are some very wise women here so keep posting, and good luck.

I'm sorry you're in the same situation, and that you're stuck. I hope you can manage to find a way out. Thank you so much for taking the time to post on my thread: knowing we're not going mad and that we're not imaging things is comforting.

OP posts:
Moonah · 25/09/2022 09:25

Ultimately then, you acknowledge that his behaviour is a choice. Because you know that he can choose to behave nicely, even lovingly, if it achieves his desired end.
So even if he could choose to behave nicely towards you, for a significant period of time, would you ever be truly happy? Because you would know that he's not behaving lovingly towards you intrinsically, that it's a reflection of how he feels. You'd know deep down it was an act, put on to achieve his desired end of you not leaving. Is that enough for you?

You're spot on. Particularly with the not behaving lovingly towards me naturally; that it's almost an act. I'm sure he believes himself that he loves me, but I suspect he doesn't, and that he's doing what you say: he's putting on an act and it's what he needs to do to keep me here with him. I didn't understand for a long time why would he want to stay with me if he doesn't actually love me, or even like me (because I get occasional flashes of real hatred, contempt and bile from him)? But recently I've realised why - it's because without me, his public persona is a lonely middle-aged man with no family and no friends, someone who is socially awkward and can't form deep connections with anyone nor understand empathy, compassion, or joy. With me, he can pretend he is all those things.

OP posts:
Moonah · 25/09/2022 09:25

brightsmile · 24/09/2022 17:16

Hi there, I have just privately messaged you with details of someone who helped me through a similar set of circumstances - I thoroughly recommend her - hope it helps!

Thank you so much: I've seen your message and that's hugely helpful. I appreciate it.

OP posts:
Moonah · 25/09/2022 09:27

2catsandhappy · 25/09/2022 07:59

You could be in a new place by Christmas.
I really hope you are.

I'll come back and let you all know!

OP posts:
MsTSwift · 25/09/2022 09:35

God was on a pta years ago and we were suggesting school events and this women laughed and said she couldn’t attend any events as she played an instrument so had one night out a week with that and that was all dhs allow isn’t it? Cue tumbleweed everyone else was 😲. She thought that was normal. Tragic.

Moonah · 25/09/2022 09:35

Okay so I've been making a list of things to get together. Have I missed anything?

Scan joint things and save on my laptop in case I can't take them with me:
Photos
House registry/deeds
Mortgage details
Savings account statements (joint, plus his and mine)
Pension statements (joint, plus his and mine)
Income details (his and mine)

Scan my own stuff, just in case:
Driving licence
Birth certificate
Passport
Will (mine)

Get together actual physical paperwork in one place so it's easy to grab:
Driving licence
Birth certificate
Passport
Will
Marriage certificate
House registry/deeds
Latest mortgage statement

Other stuff:
Go through my own clothes, shoes, personal possessions and start clearing them out, putting them in easy-to-grab storage bags/boxes

Anything else?

OP posts:
WillPowerLite · 25/09/2022 09:47

I was going to say that you should just take the first step, OP, but look at that list! You're already making a start.

Contact a solicitor on Monday. Make an appointment. Then go to the appointment. Once you have talked someone about the practicalities, you will find yourself eager to do more to get out.

notlikethat · 25/09/2022 10:00

I've name changed, I commented earlier in the thread. Just to say that list is impressive and you really are doing wonderful. The one thing I would suggest is shoring up as much emotional support as possible. Perhaps contact your friends today that you can talk to about this and arranging time for a coffee or a walk for later in the week, or a zoom call if you can? You will have highs and lows and that kind of support can be invaluable. Keep powering on! You are amazing!

Moonah · 25/09/2022 10:07

Thanks Smile

I'm sticking my head in the sand about a solicitor for now - that feels a bit too real and scary just yet. But I'll start working through my list above, continue thinking about the things said on this thread, and see how I feel about the solicitor after that.

I keep having stupid thoughts like "Oh my god how will I take my Netflix account off the TVs without him noticing?"

OP posts:
Moonah · 25/09/2022 10:09

The one thing I would suggest is shoring up as much emotional support as possible. Perhaps contact your friends today that you can talk to about this and arranging time for a coffee or a walk for later in the week, or a zoom call if you can? You will have highs and lows and that kind of support can be invaluable. Keep powering on! You are amazing!

Thank you. I do have one very good friend who I confide everything in with. But my other friends don't have a clue: thinking about this and examining why I've not said anything to other people, I think perhaps it's that loyalty to him and also knowing that he'd be horrified is I said any of these things to people we know.

OP posts:
Pixiedust1234 · 25/09/2022 11:34

Please only think about things you can do without him noticing. Sorting out clothes for charity etc is normal but putting them into boxes isn't. Just do an emergency go bag and put your passport etc in that (including medication). Make a list of items you would like if you had time eg splitting saucepans and sentimental ornaments. Also a list of companies that will need your new address or cancelling, eg driving licence, council tax, internet, life insurance, doctors, dentists.

Netflix account is dealt with afterwards. Its better to let him have one free month than tip him off before you have somewhere else to go.

I know making a solicitor appointment seems a step too far, thats my problem. So I'm going with GP support to get my health in a better place, speaking with your friends is the equivalent imo. One step at a time will take you there eventually, its the stopping we need to avoid. As much as i hate seeing posts like yours, seeing others posting support does shake me out of my dithering a little bit more.

Msgrieves · 25/09/2022 11:42

Holy fucking hell, he's not your other half, he is your tormentor. Terrifying.

Pashazade · 25/09/2022 11:50

I'd open a cloud storage account and scan everything to that just in case something happens to your laptop. You can always cancel it once you're out. Good luck with moving forward, you've got this.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 25/09/2022 12:03

Leaving, consider what you may end up with

Freedom from a controlling, lying, abusive twat, for a kick off.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 25/09/2022 12:09

Moonah · 24/09/2022 11:28

He's a very high earner yes. But I do work full time and am not totally financially dependant on him. My life would be difficult financially alone because I don't earn anything like what he earns, and I'd have to really cut back, but it wouldn't be impossible.

My life would be difficult financially alone because I don't earn anything like what he earns, and I'd have to really cut back, but it wouldn't be impossible

Ditto when I split from my ex. NGL, some times were difficult financially and emotionally; but I never wished the split hadn't happened. In fact a lot of times I thought 'well, things are hairy, but it could be worse. I could still be married to ex.'

myleftventricle · 25/09/2022 12:23

Once you've got a place to move to set yourself a day when he's out at work, take the day off and arrange for a couple of friends to come round and help you move everything. If one can drive a van (or knows someone who can) even better. If you've been 'decluttering' in advance you won't have crap to go through and can just bag it all up and move it. And he'll find out when he gets home and not before. Safer.

pheonixrebirth · 25/09/2022 12:52

I just wanted to say I lived your exact life and you will be so happy once you get out, but just a heads up that he may start being nice again very soon.

They seem to have a sense when you are feeling stronger and about to leave. Weird I know but it's like they get a spider sense that they are loosing their grip on you.

Good luck OP, enjoy your life on your terms now. Flowers

REignbow · 25/09/2022 16:28

Who buys the groceries? If you do, then consider taking out cash back and hiding it.

billy1966 · 25/09/2022 16:30

pheonixrebirth · 25/09/2022 12:52

I just wanted to say I lived your exact life and you will be so happy once you get out, but just a heads up that he may start being nice again very soon.

They seem to have a sense when you are feeling stronger and about to leave. Weird I know but it's like they get a spider sense that they are loosing their grip on you.

Good luck OP, enjoy your life on your terms now. Flowers

This.

Abusers are very sensitive to their victims pulling away.

Google, detaching emotionally from him, grey rocking him.

You need to put emotional distance between you which will help leaving.

Enough with the loyalty to him.
Wasted on him.

Start telling those you truly trust of your plans.

You never know, someone might know of a rental.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 25/09/2022 16:39

I'd add insurance to the list of docs eg you might want to take him off your car insurance, you might need a copy of his / your life insurance (just because you divorce doesnt mean you wouldnt be a beneficiary if you're named).

Make sure you speak to the solicitor first if there is any way that aomeone can freeze any financial assets pending the divorce if you suspect he might cut off his nose to spite his face and burn though money. If this can't be done then see if there is a way you can transfer half. I dont know if there is a way you can get your house valued without him realising (maybe not if he wfh but if your house is similar to others on your street a friendly EA might be able to give you some advice from pictures of the interior).