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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

My husband gives me permission to go out, and I feel grateful FFS - is this trauma bonding??

181 replies

Moonah · 24/09/2022 09:24

I have friends. My H doesn't have any. A night out was arranged this week, and it struck me much later that (1) my H gave me permission to go, and (2) that I actually felt grateful that he gave me permission. I hadn't realised this happened before now, and it's caused me to really examine my own feelings and reactions to him, and I've realised that when my friends arrange a night out, I dread telling my H and I put off mentioning it. When I do eventually tell him, my heart beats faster and I get a knot of tension in my stomach. His response is always to either frown and look angry and say 'Are you going?' in a really annoyed tone, or to pause and then say 'You can go if you want'. If the former, I then feel worried and chew on it for hours (and if I'm brave enough to ask why he's annoyed, he always denies that he is, but again in an annoyed tone, and then he's off with me for hours). But if he says I can go, I actually feel grateful and relieved.

There's so much wrong else in this relationship. It's a constant cycle of him alternating between being moody and being lovely. I'm on eggshells, then I'm relaxed, I'm on eggshells, then I'm relaxed: over and over and over, all depending on my H's mood. When he's stressed or busy, he takes his moods out on me – snapping at me and being horrible to me, banging about, slamming doors, loud irritated sighs, etc., but then denying it if I ask him what's wrong: "nothing" is his stock answer. And then I'm tense and worried. We've just had 4 days of him being angry about something that happened at work, and I've been tense and walking on eggshells for all that time. Then yesterday, he suddenly gave me a hug and told me he loved me (no apology: there's never an apology because he is never ever in the wrong, ever) and I was flooded with gratefulness and relief, and now he's back to being really nice again, relaxed and laughing and joking.

There are loads of other things: he's a compulsive liar, he regularly gives me me silent treatment, he refuses to discuss any issues, he's resentful and holds silent grudges for years, he messes with my stuff behind my back then pretends he hasn't. He's fussy and controlling. He's never wrong - if I mention an issue then he instantly denies it and turns it back on me so I end up confused and believing I'm the one in the wrong. We haven't had sex for 10 years, we don't hold hands or kiss, and there's only affection when he's going through a nice cycle. But when it IS a nice cycle - which is about half of the time - he's funny and good company and we get on so well, and I just love those times.

I recognise all this. I know this is a shit relationship. I've got a job, I earn (just about) enough to finance a solo life, we don't have children, I've got a lot of friends and people like me, I've got hobbies and interests. I'd be totally fine living alone, so I have literally no idea why I stay - apart from the times when he's lovely, and those feelings of floods of relief and gratefulness, and I just want to stay here with him in this relationship so strongly that I keep repeating this ridiculous cycle, and I just know if I left I'd miss him so much.

If this was a friend of mine telling me this I'd tell her to run for the hills. It's fucking ludicrous. Even typing this, I'm annoyed at how pathetic I am. So I googled this morning 'why do I feel grateful when my partner is nice to me' and ended up down this rabbit hole of abusive relationships and trauma bonding. Is that what this is??

I'm 55 and we've been together for 30 years.

OP posts:
coleslawsuzy · 24/09/2022 11:37

Just echoing what everyone else is saying, in that this is emotional abuse - have you googled 'cycle of abuse'? Just because what you're saying sounds like a classic example of that. I'm so sorry you're going through this - it's exceptionally confusing and upsetting. One thing that really helped me was reading up on emotional abuse and coercive control (the book Why Does He Do That is a brilliant starting point) and also noting down in my phone (put a password on your notes app) every time something happened. Even something I couldn't quite put my finger on. I almost built a 'case' that I then cross referenced with stuff in the book, and that I could also refer back to when I started to doubt myself (which of course, incessant gaslighting makes you do). It has been such a huge help over the past few years. Lots of luck - these situations are so hard to unpick and take action on but you absolutely shouldn't live your life like this, it's such a terrible waste. You deserve better x

JamesBondOO7 · 24/09/2022 11:38

AquaticSewingMachine · 24/09/2022 09:46

Gosh, what an awful prospect the OP would face if she did leave. A happy independent life she could shape how she wanted, where she didn't have to walk on eggshells or ask anybody's permission for Jack shit. 🤔

True but I've seen and heard about people step out of what they deemd was not a got partenrship/marriage etc only to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.

I still feel it's worth a try and if that fails, then leave

wellhelloitsme · 24/09/2022 11:38

@JamesBondOO7

The reason I said was her to possibly stay and as per my post is 'you never know what you may end up with'

What bizarre advice, to stay with someone abusive because you might have me up with someone else even worse.

You do realise that being single is far preferable to being in a relationship that makes you unhappy? OP doesn't have to choose between staying with an abuser and being with a worse abuser.

Being single is far better than being in an unhealthy, unhappy relationship:

wellhelloitsme · 24/09/2022 11:39

@JamesBondOO7

True but I've seen and heard about people step out of what they deemd was not a got partenrship/marriage etc only to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Have you never heard of people being happily single?

JamesBondOO7 · 24/09/2022 11:43

wellhelloitsme · 24/09/2022 11:38

@JamesBondOO7

The reason I said was her to possibly stay and as per my post is 'you never know what you may end up with'

What bizarre advice, to stay with someone abusive because you might have me up with someone else even worse.

You do realise that being single is far preferable to being in a relationship that makes you unhappy? OP doesn't have to choose between staying with an abuser and being with a worse abuser.

Being single is far better than being in an unhealthy, unhappy relationship:

So your point/opinion is more valid that mine?

JamesBondOO7 · 24/09/2022 11:44

wellhelloitsme · 24/09/2022 11:39

@JamesBondOO7

True but I've seen and heard about people step out of what they deemd was not a got partenrship/marriage etc only to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.

Have you never heard of people being happily single?

Have you never heard of people that split then get into financial trouble and a lot more?

What is your point?

Of course, you could counter what I've posted but as you not have learnt I can easily do that.

Poppinjay · 24/09/2022 11:50

True but I've seen and heard about people step out of what they deemd was not a got partenrship/marriage etc only to jump out of the frying pan and into the fire.
I still feel it's worth a try and if that fails, then leave

That's like saying don't run from the man with the knife because there could be a man with a gun around the corner.

You have a frightening lack of insight into how coercive control works.

Advice like yours could condemn someone to a lifetime of abuse. IT IS DANGEROUS.

This could be the only time the OP reaches out for support to escape the hell she is living in. She needs to know that it is not reasonable to live her life desperately trying to appease someone and taking the blame for their abusive behaviour.

Please educate yourself about domestic abuse or stop posting on threads about it.

Cloverforever · 24/09/2022 11:51

JamesBondOO7 · 24/09/2022 11:44

Have you never heard of people that split then get into financial trouble and a lot more?

What is your point?

Of course, you could counter what I've posted but as you not have learnt I can easily do that.

Can you decipher your last sentence? It doesn't make any sense. Along with the rest of your post....

TokyoTen · 24/09/2022 12:00

Please make preparations to leave - secure your finances especially, get copies of documents. You cannot live like this - it must be absolutely suffocating and no one should feel they have to ask for permission to just go out with friends or that they tread on eggshells. Good luck OP, I really hope you can make it out because honestly he is controlling you totally and no way should a relationship be like that.

J0y · 24/09/2022 12:06

it sounds so suffocating. Well done for recognising what's going on. I'd go for a bit of therapy on your own and he will go bananas of course but that uncomfortable feeling of doing something he disapproves of will be practice for how much he's going to disapprove of the new you, it'll also underline why the therapy is required. I'm not snippily typing ''get therapy'', I've had two rounds myself, both helped me at different stages of recovery. I'm 52 and I feel that there are three decades left. That sounds quite calculating I guess but I'm determined to live contentedly in peace. xx

wellhelloitsme · 24/09/2022 12:09

@JamesBondOO7

Have you never heard of people that split then get into financial trouble and a lot more?

Of course I've heard of people being in financial trouble after a split. That is absolutely no reason for you to advise OP to stay with someone abusive.

What is your point?

That you are IMO wrong to advise someone to stay in an abusive relationship in case after leaving they are worse off financially or meet someone more abusive. Because being less well off and single is always safer than being in an abusive relationship.

Of course, you could counter what I've posted but as you not have learnt I can easily do that.

Can you explain this sentence as it doesn't make sense?

wellhelloitsme · 24/09/2022 12:11

@JamesBondOO7

So your point/opinion is more valid that mine?

My opinion / advice is less dangerous than yours.

Your point/opinion seems to be 'better the devil you know'.

Which is dangerous and short sighted advice to someone who has realised they are in an abusive relationship and has been brave enough to seek advice from others.

blockpavingismynightmare · 24/09/2022 12:14

OP He knows what he is doing and knows you want to leave but does not care enough to stop.
I hope you have the courage to do what you have to. Don't worry about him, he does not worry about you

Tillow4ever · 24/09/2022 12:14

OP your post really resonates with me. You describe my husband almost to a T (had to double check I hadn't posted last night!) only difference is I'm a little younger so we've only been together 22 years, and we have 3 children which makes it infinitely harder to leave.

As it's just you, walk out of the door. He's abusive to you, you deserve better.

Good luck, I know it's easier said than done.

SuperCamp · 24/09/2022 12:28

JamesBondOO7 · 24/09/2022 09:44

I could saw "ignore your post" but I'm not ignorant.

The reason I said was her to possibly stay and as per my post is 'you never know what you may end up with'

I'm sure you know of people that met someone that appeared the best thing since sliced bread until they moved in together/married etc - staying at least she has good times and possibly work on that with professional help?

His behaviour is abusive. He is controlling, he lies, he gaslights her. This is not a matter of improving communication or sorting out some misunderstandings!

Moonah · 24/09/2022 13:25

Thank you to the posters standing up to JamesBondOO7. Honestly though, hand on heart, I will never live with another man again. Ever. I'm actually close to hating men and wanting nothing to do with them ever again (I know, I know NAMALT.) But I can honestly say that if I do leave this marriage, then I want to live alone for the rest of my (hopefully peaceful) days. So the danger of me entering an even-worse relationship just isn't a factor. I don't have the energy for one - I just want to be left the fuck alone to make my own decisions in life, have a bath in peace, read magazines in peace, and shut the constant voice in my head the fuck up that's constantly anticipating my husband's next mood. As I said in my OP, I can recognise it all myself, and if this were a friend saying all this to me, I'd tell her to run for the hills - I really would.

And I'm okay with being skint, living in a crappy flat or tiny house, no nice holidays, crappy clothes. I'll get by. I just need to get from here to there. That's what I need strength for.

OP posts:
noirchatsdeux · 24/09/2022 13:33

I think it's plainly obvious (except to idiots) that you need to get out. I however also add, from personal experience, that you need to plan your exit well. No warning him in advance, if you know he's going to be nasty it's pointless. Get yourself a place, move your stuff when he's not there and then tell him. It needs to be a total fait accompli.

This is not a situation that is going to get better as you both get older. He's not going to have a sudden road to Damascus moment, realise he's treating you badly and stop...you've been together 30 years, it's not happened in all that time, the current dynamic works for him, so why would he?

His lack of life/friends etc is not on you. The only person's actions you can control are your own.

SuperCamp · 24/09/2022 13:43

Knowledge is power, which will give you strength, OP. Go and see a lawyer and get an idea of how the assets would be distributed, and anything you need to consider in planning your getaway.

I agree with the PP saying plan in private and then just do it, fait accompli.

Do you have your own bank account or savings that you could use for a deposit for a flat? A friend or family address that you could use for correspondence as you plan this?

Pixiedust1234 · 24/09/2022 13:45

@Moonah does your last post mean you are ready mentally and emotionally to start? That now you need practical advice?

Get copies of all financial statements, bank, savings, pensions etc
Get your birth and marriage certificates
Get your passport and driving licence
Get your deeds and or mortgage info

Make a solicitor appointment to discuss your financial options.

Once you have that information you can decide how, ie rental, buying, divorce or separation

Moonah · 24/09/2022 14:00

This is not a situation that is going to get better as you both get older. He's not going to have a sudden road to Damascus moment, realise he's treating you badly and stop...you've been together 30 years, it's not happened in all that time, the current dynamic works for him, so why would he?

I think I keep having this imaginary conversation with him in my head because there's a part of me that thinks that if he realises how serious I am this time that he'll do a big about-face and totally change, and be the 'nice husband' side of him all the time, instead of cycling between the two extremes of his character. I know you're right though. It probably would happen actually - he'd turn into 'nice husband' for a good long while, but experience tells me that it wouldn't last for the rest of our lives. And I'm a naive idiot if I think it would.

OP posts:
2bazookas · 24/09/2022 14:04

I've got a job, I earn (just about) enough to finance a solo life, we don't have children, I've got a lot of friends and people like me, I've got hobbies and interests

GO GO GO, LTB.

Go now while you still have some autonomy and the practical means to make a life for yourself. IN a few years, he will have stripped all that from you.

Moonah · 24/09/2022 14:04

Pixiedust1234 · 24/09/2022 13:45

@Moonah does your last post mean you are ready mentally and emotionally to start? That now you need practical advice?

Get copies of all financial statements, bank, savings, pensions etc
Get your birth and marriage certificates
Get your passport and driving licence
Get your deeds and or mortgage info

Make a solicitor appointment to discuss your financial options.

Once you have that information you can decide how, ie rental, buying, divorce or separation

I don't know if I'm mentally and emotionally there. There's a big part of me that still wants to stay with him. The best way I can describe it is likening it to home sickness. You know when you're away and you crave home and the people there? It's like that. But either way, I recognise it's a shit and unhealthy relationship, and even though I have that part that wants to stay with him, equally there's another part of me that has this fantasy single life. I've even decorated my new flat that doesn't exist in my head!

So yes, throw practical advice at me, because even though I'm not 100% there yet, I plan to make small steps to get there. Solicitor, paperwork, etc. And then when I've got all that organised, maybe I'll be another step closer out of the door.

OP posts:
Moonah · 24/09/2022 14:06

Go now while you still have some autonomy and the practical means to make a life for yourself. IN a few years, he will have stripped all that from you.

A million percent this. I'm so worried that if I leave it much longer, I just won't have the energy to leave and I'll be with him for the rest of my life.

OP posts:
DoubleGauze · 24/09/2022 14:09

The process/time between realising what you marriage is really like and making that first move is a really difficult time.

Fwiw , op , I think you're doing really well at untangling it all. You've been 'stuck' for years after all.

Just remember that the very reason he's spent years controlling you and building the fences high is that you are a capable , intelligent and practical person. I'm also guessing that people find you likeable and that you have made him look good by showing these traits. He needs you far more than you've ever needed him and you'll almost definitely make a great life for yourself once you're away and independent.

Fireflygal · 24/09/2022 14:10

Op, look up covert narcissist. I didn't have a clue what I was dealing with when I left Ex. I just knew I couldn't live being controlled by his moods. Your post about him changing hour to hour made me remember how my life used to me.

I wasn't aware of Ex's vindictiveness and you are wise to be cautious. In hindsight I should have left quietly and prepared everything in advance.

I fell into the trap of assuming if I was amicable and reasonable it would be ok. Ex took my leaving as significant wounding so I had to be punished. I was shocked by his lies and smear campaign. He was determined that financially I would regret leaving him.

It is hard to describe to outsiders what it is like so try to find a solicitor who is aware of toxic individuals. Do your research on toxic individuals and look at YouTube for lots of resources.

I take my peaceful home life for granted but your post highlighted how far I have travelled since leaving. It will be the same for you. It won't be fun but divorce is a process and ultimately you can be free from him.

Are you in contact with any of his family?

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