We just scared our 4 year old & I'm so ashamed

[TreesAreFriends]

DH went out at the weekend. He has had very little sleep. Tension brewing all weekend. Last night we had a row over something silly and we slept in separate beds.

I got up with my 2 DS (4 and 2). Making them breakfast. DH came down. I tried to make up with him. He was sulking. Started rowing again. And then basically he started losing it. Really shouting. Stormed off. I needed to get ready and leave for work (he's on holiday) so I followed him and shouted "you need to look after your own children you arsehole"

And the 4 year old started shouting up the stairs "I'm scared mummy I'm scared"

I then had to comfort him. I forced DH to come downstairs and cuddle DS too. And DS started saying "family family I love my family. Kisses and cuddles please mummy and daddy"

I then left for work. I'm in tears on the train. I'm so ashamed this is their existence. Its not frequent but because I'm putting on a brave face and biting my tongue I guess when it happens it really goes off.

I feel deep shame. I wish I didn't have to leave them with him. I don't know how I work full time and pay for it all and be there for them.

I do try to talk calmly to DH to sort things out but he can't listen. And I hate the arguments because of the kids.

Sometimes I daydream about him just disappearing. I just wish he would walk away and never come back.

OP. Maybe reverse psychology will work on him. Tell him he has to have DC 50% of the time so you “can get a break from them” and watch the dumb bastard run the other away!!

I'd separate op. I grew up with a narcissistic mother. To the outside world she was amazing but behind closed doors she was awful. She'd start arguments over nothing with my dad then push and shove him in the hopes he'd retaliate (he never did, he'd walk out the house for a bit which would annoy her even more). He drank a lot which I can only imagine was his way of coping. This really is the tip of the iceberg, I could write a book about my mother and the things I witnessed/experienced as a child with her.
My childhood has 100% affected me in adulthood and it's something I often talk to my therapist about. When I was 18 in my first relationship (I wasn't allowed a bf when I was living at home) it's like I turned into my mother. Shouting and provoking someone was all I ever knew. Luckily I'v never been in an abusive relationship but I'v been assaulted by men.

Also agree regarding custody. I think my mum would of fought for custody to keep up appearances but when it came down to it she would of wouldn't of wanted it. I see that now as she can't be bothered to travel an hour to meet her grandchild.

I disagree with all the posters saying that he's unlikely to ask for 50/50.

It sounds like he wants a comfortable life, and he'll know (or soon find out) that if you're the higher earner but he has higher or equal residence, OP will end up giving him a larger share of their assets and be liable for paying child support (potentially even spousal support if her income is high enough, though maybe not here).

He'll be able to argue (as so many women do on here) that he went part time to take on more childcare while you went and focussed on your career, and that therefore any settlement needs to reflect the long term hit to his earnings, and the fact that he is the 'main carer'.

OP, you should maintain records of how you are splitting childcare and child-related duties (e.g. does he care for them in the school holidays, or do they have the nanny there or go to a school holiday club that you booked, organised payment for, and that you share dropoffs pickups from?). At least it will help if he says that his part time earning has been in order to take on this role.
As others have said, many dads are keen on 50/50 only until the finances are sorted, then drop nights over time. Or maybe with only half the weeks, he'll be a more relaxed and better dad - and while you'll miss the kids, this could ultimately still be a better outcome for them and you than the current misery.

I dont think he’s unlikely to ask for it, just unlikely to do it when it comes to the crunch. If he’s working he’d have to pay £££ for childcare, and if he’s not working he’d have to do childcare himself.

So much easier to do EOW and have the rest of his time to himself.

Please don't stay together. The mental scars from having parents who do this never go away. I speak from experience

OP please remember that you are posting on MN, where ALL posters earn 6 figures, live rurally, clutch their pearls all day and never ever fight. And NEVER in front of children.

Look - its not great! But it happens! I wish my kids had never seen me argue with their dad. But it would be completely untrue to say that was the case. And yes it upset them. BUT! Conflict is part and parcel of human interaction. Trust me (ex primary school teacher) kids come into the context of conflict themselves. A good ten mins of my time after lunch was spent negotiating conflicts. Thats not to say you should pat yourself on the back.... But it is to say that your kids are NOT going to be damaged by seeing conflict. Even petty name-calling conflict. In particular, if they get to see that mummy and daddy can make up in the end, then they'll see that conflict is not the end of the world.

But - if you CANNOT make up. If conflict becomes part and parcel of everyday. If conflict becomes the norm or becomes abusive.... Then you have to think about their future. In this case, kids are better off in a split household.

I am so sorry OP. It breaks my heart to think my baby boy could be your scare 4yrs old one day. (Due to completely different reasons but still) time to change some things.
wish u all the luck

It wasn’t until my parents told us they were getting divorced that there was any arguments. I only really remember one big argument I heard while sat downstairs.

but something was always off and never felt like a comfortable house to live in. Tension I guess.

I was a much happier child when my mum finally moved out and we saw them separately.

Hopefully your guilt will change the adults behaviour in the home by removing or repairing the relationship.

Your partner was disgraceful but you didn't help the situation either.

It's awful arguing around DC.

I'd give DP one of my "you're dead" stares.

Text arguments are okay, if or when it happens again ensure you both apologise to the DC and explain your actions, it helps them understand.

I too had the narcissistic mother. My poor father had the patience of a saint. He took abuse piled on abuse. My mother used things like 'your father doesn't fucking care about you'. 'Look at your perfect father now'. It was horrendous and it broke me. I'm not the person I should be. My father was a a gentle man and a gentleman. He adored me and tried his best to assuage the assaults on himself and on us children.

I'm never quick to jump to the side of the mother as my life experience has been that my mother was an abusive, nasty, vindictive, jealous, hateful horrible person. To the outside world though, she was viewed as lovely except by those who had been in our home and witnessed what she did.

Actually, narcissistic is too nice of a term for my mother. She was a fucking psychopath and still is to this day.

@Dalint Yes....I am at the end of my tether will him.

Just to give context to the teacher comment. When we met - we had similar salaries etc. He was unhappy with his job and often changed school. Often complained about his boss. We then moved area and his commute got longer. He started coming home incredibly angry. Wouldn't talk to any of us. Blamed it on the job and the commute, saying his work was depriving him of the kids etc.

As evidence of me mothering him - I started hunting for jobs myself (he said he wanted a new job but said he was too tired to look/apply) I even applied for jobs for him (as in I wrote the application for him, I bought him a new suit, I helped him with interview prep). I would sit on the sofa while he watched tiktok and I read out the applications I was writing to fact check etc.

All so he could take a job with fewer hours, much less money, he's home at 4pm on the dot the day he does work. He said it would make him happier and I'm "the career one"

Guess what he doesn't like it there either. He doesn't do anymore childcare (in fact the kids he was desperate to see, he's now desperate to get them to bed the minute he walks through the door) and he's still angry.

So yes, I find it hard to still be supportive. I have done so so much trying to help him be happier in his work. He's not a happy man. I don't think it's my fault. Honestly, I have spent so many years loving him and supporting him. maybe too much and he somehow resents me. I don't know.

"I'd give DP one of my "you're dead" stares."

Yeah, except the post immediately before yours shows how tense that kind of crap, including arguing by text , affects the whole atmosphere.

I do take responsibility for shouting by the way. The title of the post is 'WE scared' and I've said how awful and guilty I feel.

I shouldn't have said about 'Look after your children'. I know I shouldn't

To explain where that comes from....I was trying to get ready for work, he has the kids for one before the nanny turns up on Monday, Tuesday and Wed. So he just has to look after them for that first hour of the day. And then she takes over.

And when he was getting angry at me this morning, he stormed upstairs and slammed the door and said "Go away. Leave me the fuck alone". So I can't get ready for work, I can't leave my DC while he's still in the bedroom.

And I had to leave for work in the next 10 mins. And I couldn't believe that he was storming off and basically saying he wasn't going to look after the kids when he only does it for ONE HOUR. So yeah, maybe I resent the fact he has all the time with no work, no childcare, and it riled me. I shouldn't have said it - as none of that context means anything to my DC.

Oh OP I think you posted about the weekend as well

i think all you can do now is start sorting out the process of leaving, legally financially and emotionally

For me it was one of the best days when my Mum finally kicked my Dad out.

I was 13, my brother was 11. It was so much better just us 3. No more walking on eggshells, no more shouting, no having to be quiet etc.

Plus he was a lazy sod who did nothing with us or around the house. Mum worked 2 jobs, looked after us etc. I'm just sad for her she didn't do it a lot sooner!

There is no way that someone so self obsessed is going to want custody 50 % of the time. He may do it to get at you in the beginning but it won't last . You need to get rid of him. I thought I'd hidden it from my children but one day he literally picked me up and threw me out of the front door. My daughter has never forgotten it, and she's 36 now.

I can see comments here about me being the main earner etc and the possibility of him saying he would be at SAHP.

I have had 30 mins with a solicitor and she said that is possibility. Particularly around school holidays. I need to pay for a solicitor for more time, but I'm very scared about this.

He won't like the reality of looking after kids, but he sees himself as the victim here. All he cares about is being a good dad. He talks about his love for our boys constantly. They are my world, they are everything, my life started when they were born etc.

I also could move jobs and get more money next year, but apparently that will just put me in a worse position.

I am trying to be pragmatic.

Also, people on here have said courts don't care about my subjective analysis on his parenting e.g .him looking at his phone, swearing, ignoring them, etc - the solicitor said that is only relevant if bad enough for social services.

Oh and by the way he had very little sleep because he had been out the night before until 3am and passed out on a sofa somewhere.

Yes, I think there are two threads.

It sounds really rotten. I agree OP needs to leave and that this would be better than staying even if he goes for 50/50. Keep a record of incidents like this one and look back and make a note of similar events. Keep a record of who is doing the childcare (not the husband but a nanny!) so he can't argue he's primary carer.

He’s irresponsible, sour with his job and able to get away with it. I would be furious with my hubby if he was out all night and knew he had to look after the kids. I’ve taught for many years, I loved it but you can’t do it half hearted . He’s lucky to have the holidays but with that comes the childcare unless you use all year round nursery. He is behaving like a single man still . Reality may bite and he may realise he loses his world and can continue bitter in his job- I feel for the kids he teaches ... minimum is bad - you have a responsibility when you teach, having a child loving your lessons is a real buzz .

My sorbets fight like this a lot. When they separated we were actually much worse off as there was no one to take care of us with mum at work all hours of day and night. I’d have preferred them to stay together for our stability … just an alternate view.

also OP we all do bad shit as parents we all just do our best. What could you do to respond differently next time?

parents not sorbets!!!!

Having been in the same situation you are now, all the advice I can give is get away as fast as you can. I split from a toxic partner when my DD was 2 but we stayed living together until she was 6 cause I kept convincing myself she needed two parents. He’s been gone a year now and has made no effort to still be a dad to my daughter. She’s a lot better off for it though. Sending love and positivity to you and the kids, you can do this!!

I grew up in a house like this too. It was awful. Dad was controlling and would keep an argument up for months and months. Mum could keep it all bottled up to keep the peace, and then erupt spectacularly when it all got too much.

As a result, I’m a people-pleaser and really poor at being assertive when I think there’s a risk of conflict. I find it very hard to regulate myself if there’s an argument.

My parents are in their 80s now and still together. They hate each other. They make each other miserable, and make all their children miserable too.

Your DH can listen— he chooses not to.
He’s on holiday, he should be doing all the childcare this week , he can’t pick and choose which bits of his child he wants to care for as they come as a complete person! He really should have realised this by now.
If you have family or close friends who can support you look to them and start planning to leave.