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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

We just scared our 4 year old & I'm so ashamed

193 replies

TreesAreFriends · 22/08/2022 08:32

DH went out at the weekend. He has had very little sleep. Tension brewing all weekend. Last night we had a row over something silly and we slept in separate beds.

I got up with my 2 DS (4 and 2). Making them breakfast. DH came down. I tried to make up with him. He was sulking. Started rowing again. And then basically he started losing it. Really shouting. Stormed off. I needed to get ready and leave for work (he's on holiday) so I followed him and shouted "you need to look after your own children you arsehole"

And the 4 year old started shouting up the stairs "I'm scared mummy I'm scared"

I then had to comfort him. I forced DH to come downstairs and cuddle DS too. And DS started saying "family family I love my family. Kisses and cuddles please mummy and daddy"

I then left for work. I'm in tears on the train. I'm so ashamed this is their existence. Its not frequent but because I'm putting on a brave face and biting my tongue I guess when it happens it really goes off.

I feel deep shame. I wish I didn't have to leave them with him. I don't know how I work full time and pay for it all and be there for them.

I do try to talk calmly to DH to sort things out but he can't listen. And I hate the arguments because of the kids.

Sometimes I daydream about him just disappearing. I just wish he would walk away and never come back.

OP posts:
converseandjeans · 22/08/2022 09:54

@TreesAreFriends that doesn't sound great. It's been hard for teachers with the pandemic adapting to new way of doing things. But it's back to normal now. FT is challenging but he should be able to cope PT if he has no childcare on his days off.

Without you there I doubt he could afford to pay for a house & car etc on a PT teacher salary.

KosherDill · 22/08/2022 09:57

GCAcademic · 22/08/2022 08:38

Urgh. You sound like my parents. I’m in my late 40s and still have the emotional scars of growing up in a household with fighting parents. I wish they had divorced, but according to them it’s better to have your kids grow up in a household of conflict, emotional trauma and constant anxiety than have the stigma of a failed marriage. I have a very low opinion of both of them now.

Same here except I'm 60.

This environment will adversely affect these children and damage their ability to have healthy relationships for decades to come. A few cuddles aren't going to erase the trauma.

People need to choose their co-parents a lot more carefully than most do. Sad.

scrumpledtitskin · 22/08/2022 09:59

@treesarefriends thank you 😁

It is so hard, but it seems any possible outcome of you splitting up is going to have an ultimately positive effect on both your children and you.

I do wish you all the best with it, it's not easy saying the words out loud

KosherDill · 22/08/2022 09:59

NerrSnerr · 22/08/2022 09:06

You say that you do everything. It's really unlikely that he will actually have the children 50-50 even if he threatens it.

Exactly.

FunnyBeaux · 22/08/2022 10:00

Interesting that you keep talking about rowing, which is done by two people, yet you blame your dh for everything. Perhaps it's time to take ownership and ask what can you do to make the relationship better. You might find that things improve for the both of you.

lastminutedotcom22 · 22/08/2022 10:01

@TreesAreFriends

You need to end this relationship and stop being so selfish your poor kids - what a toxic environment for them it sounds horrendous to be honest.

Summerfun54321 · 22/08/2022 10:02

Both agree not to raise your voices at each other when you have a disagreement. If neither of you can stop that as grown adults then it’s better if you break up for the sake of the kids.

Thinkingblonde · 22/08/2022 10:02

TreesAreFriends · 22/08/2022 08:54

@NerrSnerr No. I do everything for them. I am ashamed I shouted. I am deeply ashamed. But I do all the night wakes. All the cuddles. Games. Food. Appointments. Clothes. Bedtime stories. Play dates. Clubs. Childcare arrangements. Bloody everything. And I work full time. He stares at his phone all day. Does bare minumn at home and at work. Complains. And is nasty and vindictive. So no. Absolutely bloody not.

Do you really think he’d go for 50:50? I don’t think he would, He’d be happy each other weekend and one night a week.

Chooksnroses · 22/08/2022 10:02

TreesAreFriends · 22/08/2022 08:54

@NerrSnerr No. I do everything for them. I am ashamed I shouted. I am deeply ashamed. But I do all the night wakes. All the cuddles. Games. Food. Appointments. Clothes. Bedtime stories. Play dates. Clubs. Childcare arrangements. Bloody everything. And I work full time. He stares at his phone all day. Does bare minumn at home and at work. Complains. And is nasty and vindictive. So no. Absolutely bloody not.

You would be better off without him.

coffeeisthebest · 22/08/2022 10:07

TreesAreFriends · 22/08/2022 09:44

@converseandjeans He is not a great teacher. He does the bare minimum. He doesn't remember half the kids names. He didn't used to be like this. He resents being a teacher i think. He always talks about being a failure or being useless etc.

He sounds like a joy to be around OP. Bloody hell. And you are supposed to make him feel better while he tells you how useless he is? And then 5 mins later you are at each other's throats. Yes you need to leave.

WeIoveyouMissHannigan · 22/08/2022 10:09

It’s fucking awful growing up with parents who fight all the time

…..and it’s embarrassing when they start scrapping in front of your friends every time any come over

……and it’s sad when you’re an adult and you have no idea what a happy relationship looks like

children don’t wed their parents together as much as they need stability.

PeekAtYou · 22/08/2022 10:10

If your h has the kids 50% of the time, he'd be responsible for paying for childcare during that time. A part-time teacher's wages won't cover the cushy set up that he has now. A man who is going back to bed when the nanny arrives is unlikely to want to look after his kids himself imo.
This trend for 50% is good for you too. He can't say he should have the kids 80% and you pay maintenance because you work longer hours at your job. He might end up with more of the assets as the lower earner but it sounds like things would be better without him

Mariposista · 22/08/2022 10:10

Don’t beat yourself up but see it as a turning point. Either together or apart, you both beed to sort yourselves out. It is totally unacceptable to holler and swear in front of young children (you know this as you feel bad) and you shouldn’t even be arguing when they are in earshot.

Thedungeondragon · 22/08/2022 10:13

If you stay you are going to continue teaching your boys that women should do all the work in the home, and if they don't it is OK to shout at them/sulk. In 20 years you will be watching their family dynamics play out the same way. Leaving would be bloody hard, and is obviously not the ideal family you would have hoped for them, but it is a million times better than allowing the pattern to continue.

Clymene · 22/08/2022 10:14

You're not protecting them by staying. You're repeating the pattern you grew up with.

AdamRyan · 22/08/2022 10:16

If you split up then you are showing your sons that people don't have to tolerate the way your DP treats you. That will be a valuable lesson to them. As they get older you'll be able to talk with them about what they saw and how it affected them and you.

If you stay with him, then you are showing your sons that marriages take commitment, but I think you have to tackle this behaviour from your husband. Otherwise both of you are teaching your sons that wives should tolerate husbands being arseholes. And that's not good for their future relationships.

IrisVersicolor · 22/08/2022 10:17

TreesAreFriends · 22/08/2022 08:54

@NerrSnerr No. I do everything for them. I am ashamed I shouted. I am deeply ashamed. But I do all the night wakes. All the cuddles. Games. Food. Appointments. Clothes. Bedtime stories. Play dates. Clubs. Childcare arrangements. Bloody everything. And I work full time. He stares at his phone all day. Does bare minumn at home and at work. Complains. And is nasty and vindictive. So no. Absolutely bloody not.

What makes you think that someone who does the bare minimum at home and at work would want 50:50? He may threaten it, he may pursue it in divorce case, but the likelihood of him actually taking it is slim. I’ve seen this pattern so many times.

It would require him to actually parent and work and that is hard graft at the best of times and he obviously doesn’t like either. Once he has a taste of freedom he’s unlikely to look back.

I’d say he’s more at risk of being a deadbeat slacker dad who doesn’t see his kids enough.

Eliode2000 · 22/08/2022 10:17

I think you should divorce. Since my friend is divorcing her wife, I know there are plenty of good books for the young kids. You've got to remind them that both parents love them so much and that hasn't changed.

AdamRyan · 22/08/2022 10:18

One of the factors that caused me to leave exH was watching DD excuse bullying behaviour from her friends and twist herself into knots to stop them treating her like that. I realised what I'd taught her was to explain or justify why I deserved the shittiness from my ex. Could not stand watching her do the same. I wanted her to value herself more than thar.

Puffalicious · 22/08/2022 10:19

OP, my boys were 4 and 2 when exDH and I separated. Similarly, we were arguing all the time and it started to spill out to when the children were awake. Boxing day he stood shouting as I cuddled the just turned 2 year old: something in me snapped and solidified. I asked him to leave and he did.

He wasn't/ isn't a bad guy, we just didn't get on. Sometimes you need to see that and move on.

14 years later he is and has been a fantastic father. Our boys are happy, well-adjusted and we're very open with them about what went wrong/ what a lovng relationship should be like. We have a v good relationship BECAUSE I don't live with him/ we're not partners.

I, luckily, have a wonderful OH (12 years yesterday!) and they've lived with a loving relationship to witness.

You CAN get there. You can. 💐

AttilaTheMeerkat · 22/08/2022 10:20

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is NONE.

It is not the OPs job to act as some sort of rehab centre to such a badly raised man. Only HE can tackle the reasons as to why he acts as he does and he does not want to.

Living in mediocrity or worse burdens children with very confusing messages about relationships and happiness. It certainly instructs them that loving marriages and partnerships are not their birthright.

IncompleteSenten · 22/08/2022 10:21

What's the point of him?

You're worried he'd want and have 50/50 but nothing you have typed leads me to believe he'd want that unless he thought he would hurt or upset you by doing so.

I would split and during the process tell him he must have his children and be an equal parent, do half the holidays, you want time to yourself as well etc etc.

If he thinks you want and need him to do that, I'm betting he'll refuse.

MulberryMoon · 22/08/2022 10:22

GCAcademic · 22/08/2022 08:38

Urgh. You sound like my parents. I’m in my late 40s and still have the emotional scars of growing up in a household with fighting parents. I wish they had divorced, but according to them it’s better to have your kids grow up in a household of conflict, emotional trauma and constant anxiety than have the stigma of a failed marriage. I have a very low opinion of both of them now.

Same for me

Scepticalwotsits · 22/08/2022 10:22

TreesAreFriends · 22/08/2022 08:45

Things I don't care about: stigma, loss of money, being alone, telling people, hurting him.

Things I do care about: my small DC spending 50% of their time with a petty, vindictive, narcissistic arsehole without their mummy.

I’m not saying it’s the reason for the arguments but it probably doesn’t help; you don’t care about hurting him, therefore I would assume some of the words you choose are loaded and he seems cut.

when it gets to that point in a relationship it’s time to leave. Doesn’t matter how or why it got there but it’s got there. It’s over

SirVixofVixHall · 22/08/2022 10:23

TreesAreFriends · 22/08/2022 09:23

My heart aches for my 4 year old too @RosiePosie27 . I smothered him in kisses and cuddles before I left. Played a very quick game of hide and seek on the kitchen (his fave) and then ran for the train. They will be with DH for an hour until they're amazing nanny turns up and they're heading out to go to a story class and swimming all day. But none of that makes up for hearing us shout at each other and for DS to feel that fear. I remember it with my own dad. Being scared. He used to do it in the car. Just start shouting, hitting the radio. You want to just disappear as a kid. I'm so ashamed. I know it's horrendous.

This has made me well up OP. I really feel for you, trying so hard to hold everything together and protect your boys.
Sadly I agree that you need to separate. I am married to a man who grew up in a house with an absolute arse of a father and it still affects him now, both he and his sibling wish their parents had split up.
There will be no perfect time to split, you could wait until your boys are a bit bigger, but that exposes them to more stress beforehand, such a difficult decision. I do understand your worries about them being alone with him , but I also feel he is likely to continue to do the minimum of parenting and not have them half the time.

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