We just scared our 4 year old & I'm so ashamed

[TreesAreFriends]

DH went out at the weekend. He has had very little sleep. Tension brewing all weekend. Last night we had a row over something silly and we slept in separate beds.

I got up with my 2 DS (4 and 2). Making them breakfast. DH came down. I tried to make up with him. He was sulking. Started rowing again. And then basically he started losing it. Really shouting. Stormed off. I needed to get ready and leave for work (he's on holiday) so I followed him and shouted "you need to look after your own children you arsehole"

And the 4 year old started shouting up the stairs "I'm scared mummy I'm scared"

I then had to comfort him. I forced DH to come downstairs and cuddle DS too. And DS started saying "family family I love my family. Kisses and cuddles please mummy and daddy"

I then left for work. I'm in tears on the train. I'm so ashamed this is their existence. Its not frequent but because I'm putting on a brave face and biting my tongue I guess when it happens it really goes off.

I feel deep shame. I wish I didn't have to leave them with him. I don't know how I work full time and pay for it all and be there for them.

I do try to talk calmly to DH to sort things out but he can't listen. And I hate the arguments because of the kids.

Sometimes I daydream about him just disappearing. I just wish he would walk away and never come back.

You say that you do everything. It's really unlikely that he will actually have the children 50-50 even if he threatens it.

@treesarefriends

This sounds horribly similar to my marriage and my fears around ending it.

We never fought or argued in front of the kids, but it was a shit atmosphere often, or I buried my personality to keep the peace.

What I'd not considered was that when I actually ended it, he quickly moved on and now has a wonderful girlfriend who my kids love.

So although he has them 50/50 (which I was worried about) he's not the same man as when he was with me. He's much happier and therefore the kids are seeing a better him.

And they see a better me, single, happy and content.

He's a part time teacher who moved schools to be demoted to "reduce the pressure". I backed this decision because I thought it would make him less angry.

I am working my arse off and went back to work after 3 months of mat leave and have got promoted/moved jobs to earn more.

He might step up with parenting if I leave. I think I have mothered him in the past and tried to help his MH, jobs, etc etc by just doing stuff for him, fixing his life but he just seems to resent me.

@TreesAreFriends im so sorry for both you and the children. Your husband needs a good wake up call - you tried to make peace and he just wanted to still hash over a cold argument. What about taking some leave (if possible) and you and the children go away somewhere nice? Make it exciting - you don’t need to do big trips, just spend quality time with them. Evaluate what you need and what your DC need - does this involve your DP? My parents would fight ALL the time, and we were threatened with them divorcing constantly. As a child, I was terrified. My DB or myself had to be with my parents as they would just fight and fight otherwise. Now I’m older, I’m angry that they couldn’t contain their issues on Christmas days, birthdays, days out or holidays. Everything had to involve a fight.

my heart aches for four 4 year old but please, please think wisely about your future and theirs. Maybe suggest therapy and go from there. Sending love to you 💐

My parents separated when I was 13, it was one of the best days of my childhood.

Our childhood was full of anxiety waiting for the next argument, constant vigilance, trying to keep the peace.

Once they separated I could enjoy time with both of them. Both of them when nicer and better parents afterwards. My dad wasn't an angry bear, my mum wasn't tense and stoic. Both became more light hearted and often fun.

Never stay together 'for the kids' you damage them permanently and teach them bad models of future relationships.

It sounds like you are both in a toxic relationship - you’ve both shouted in front of your children and as much as this is out of character for you, it could be for your husband too. I don’t think being in a toxic relationship brings the best out in people so your partner could be a more wholesome person outside of the relationship, as I’m sure you will be too.

Not wanting him to have 50/50 custody isn’t a good enough reason to not separate. Growing up in a unhappy, hostile environment would be more damaging than spending 50% of their ‘free’ time (considering most of their time is with a nanny/at school) with their father.

@scrumpledtitskin

You have the best username ever!

And thank for your reassuring post. Yes I would love for that to happen. For him to be happier without me and a better dad without me.

I have tried so hard. I know exactly what you mean about burying your personality. I cam actually create a really good atmosphere at home. I joke about, so does DH. We are silly together and with the kids. Then it's time to tidy up or something and he starts looking at his phone or he goes to bed. I tidy up and everything us all good and happy, and the DC are so happy etc. But if I say "DH come on, help me please" then I could be starting something. A row. A sulk. Tension. And then I get the guilt. If I'd just done the bloody tidying myself the DC would be fine and now they're not. It's the guilt.

"I cam actually create a really good atmosphere at home. I joke about, so does DH. We are silly together and with the kids. Then it's time to tidy up or something and he starts looking at his phone or he goes to bed."

The kids might be little now but they see through this fake atmosphere. The 4 year old already knows to be on high alert.

Poor you and poor children. Honestly, I see mums on here all the time worrying about their awful husbands having custody and putting up with really unbearable things to avoid it, and it does nobody any good. You can't protect them from their abusive father by staying with him. It's clear from what happened this morning that they are already being affected.

Please make a plan to leave this horrible man. You obviously have the wherewithal to do it which puts you ahead of a lot of women in your situation.

My heart aches for my 4 year old too @RosiePosie27 . I smothered him in kisses and cuddles before I left. Played a very quick game of hide and seek on the kitchen (his fave) and then ran for the train. They will be with DH for an hour until they're amazing nanny turns up and they're heading out to go to a story class and swimming all day. But none of that makes up for hearing us shout at each other and for DS to feel that fear. I remember it with my own dad. Being scared. He used to do it in the car. Just start shouting, hitting the radio. You want to just disappear as a kid. I'm so ashamed. I know it's horrendous.

The first time ex and I properly rowed in front of DC I knew that was the end of our relationship. DD was in my bed with me clinging to me terrified while drunk ex ranted and shouted and even banged on the door. Baby DS was asleep in his crib.

Long story short, I moved to my own house and since the day we moved in my kids have never heard so much as a raised voice in our house. It's a quiet, peaceful and happy home. I'm proud that I have given them that sanctuary.

I do 50/50 with ex and he's mostly a great dad. We're certainly both happier for not being together any more and the DC are infinitely happier than they would be if we had misguidedly stayed together for their "benefit".

Your mum didn't keep the peace for you when you were a child OP, she did it for herself. You have a strong narrative about why you should keep your family together, and that's ok, but there are other options. My parents stayed together, and I wish they had separated tho, so I am biased in that way. My home life was bloody miserable.

Also, there is no happy smiley perfect situation in this. It's hard either way. However I am of the belief that no child should be forced to ensure terror in their own home, because I also believe it is linked strongly to future emotional health and will come out in one way or another further down the line. So do whatever you can to reduce their terror and panic.

My parents had horrendous arguments when I was little. I became a ‘parent’ and wanted to solve everything.
As an adult I still love them, but have become indifferent to their bickering and as a result have a very disconnected relationship with them.
I know they both love me dearly, but I know things could have been very different if they had separated when I was a child.

It's just all very sad.

I know it's easier said than done but you should leave.

Have your children actually voiced concerns about being with their dad? Or are they your concerns? As they get older, they will stop wanting to visit if he's grumpy, mean, horrible etc. Will he spend the money to take you to court? Or can you try and go through mediation and arrange for 1 night a week to start with? There are ways around it.

Like a lot of people above, I grew up in an incredibly toxic household. Parents were abusive to one another. They would take their frustration and anger out on us. We were left to emotionally fend for ourselves. My brother has repeated the cycle. I did too, in a way, until I left when my son was a newborn. My mum used to climb into bed with me at night after they'd argued because he'd kick her out the bedroom. Other times I'd wake up to shouting and crying and it was just awful. I have some fond memories of my childhood, but mostly they are bad. I wish my parents would have split. My dad would never have had us overnight - he'd have taken us for fun days out and it would have saved our relationship. I don't talk to him at all now.

Feel like I could have wrote this @Tritewelshlady . Hugs to you.

Things I do care about: my small DC spending 50% of their time with a petty, vindictive, narcissistic arsehole

Well at the moment they spend 100% of their time with him. And you being there isn't making things better is it?

If you split they'll have some respite at least. A safe place with you, and acknowledgement that life doesn't have to be full of fights and tensions. And when they're older they can vote with their feet and not see him.

You are doing most of the looking after them, organising things. Also paying 80% & have a nanny too.

So you would be better off on your own with the kids.

I can't imagine he's a great teacher if he is so miserable! PT he should be able to manage small children & working. Most female PT teachers look after children when they're not in school - presumably your nanny does this?

Staying in this environment is always worse for the parents and always worse for the kids.

Better to have 2 happy and separated parents than 2 together and miserable and rowing parents.

My mum once said:
"An angry house, breeds scared and angry kids"
I believe her.

Also I can't see him wanting them 50% seeing as he needs a nanny on hand even when he's not working 🤷🏻‍♀️

@converseandjeans He is not a great teacher. He does the bare minimum. He doesn't remember half the kids names. He didn't used to be like this. He resents being a teacher i think. He always talks about being a failure or being useless etc.

"He's a part time teacher who moved schools to be demoted to "reduce the pressure". I backed this decision because I thought it would make him less angry".

He is angry because he is abusive, not because he is angry. I would think he all sweetness and light to those in the outside world and many abusers can appear to be quite plausible. And your man is a lazy arse with it as well.

What makes you at all think he would actually want 50% of the time with his children given how he is now?. Such types may well start ranting about this but that is usually a tactic as well to use against their chosen target, in this case you. I would urge you to get legal advice and asap re all aspects of separating from him. He won't like seeing you leave also because he will then lose all his power and control over you as well as his free ride on your coat-tails. Time to stop carrying him.

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents, look at what you were taught. They taught you between them to choose a man just like your dad was and likely still is.

What do YOU want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. Between you both you are imparting a similar set of damaging lessons to your children; its no legacy to be leaving your children. You were left a damaging legacy yourself. You have a choice re this man; your children do not.

I've see a few posts recently where mothers stay in dysfunctional relationships because they are afraid of losing contact with their children, or they don't want fathers to have equal contact with children (usually for very good reason).

But what they are then subjecting those children to is a dysfunctional relationship that will shape the kids' whole perception of relationships for their entire lives. And unless they can fork out for extensive therapy in the future you've probably set a pattern for their entire future.

Have you considered a trial separation? It might give you a sense of how he's likely to be with the children and in particular whether he's super-keen to have them as much as possible or actually happier doing the minimum (which everything you've said suggests). Disney dad EOW and give himself a big pat on the back for being so great 🙄

Do you think he feels any guilt here?. Likely not, nor remorse for what has occurred this morning. He feels entitled to act as he does and I would also think that one or even worse, both his parents, act the self same too.

You can mitigate the harm being done to both you and your kids but trying to do that whilst you are all living under the same roof is not possible.