In laws doing my head in, midlife crisis and what to do next?

[Onceuponawhileago]

Hello good people of Mumsnet. Long term user - namechanged.

I'm M 49 and my wife is 50. Together 23 years, two kids 15 and 12.
I come from a different background than my wife, mine is working class, history of sexual abuse and subsequent addiction and alcohol issues. I went through many years of counselling and addiction suport and got better.

My wife comes from a wealthy background- in our relationship we are pretty good together. We share children stuff, I do most of the cleaning, house organising and any ongoing repairs etc as its an old house. My wife is not really into cleaning and more messy than me, I figure that cleanliness matters to me so I do it for me rather than have arguments about it. Cannot get a cleaner - too remote.

Years ago we started living close to her parents- their house is on a farm, ours on the farm too and so we see them most days. I would say her parents are essentially kind but not very empthatic, tone deaf sometimes and oblivious to poorer people and especially my kind of background. Often they just 'dont understand' why we dont have a cleaner or repair the house etc. Its because we are on average salaries living in a house that requires more upkeep than we can afford. My wife will inherit a lot of money so in a way she feels she should stay close to her parents and also its her family home and will inherit farm etc.

Her parents farm the land but badly so lots of stuff falling down etc. They want full contol of their farm and are gettting more difficult as they age so wont accept suggestions of getting in help on the farm even though they have millions in the bank and could easily pay for a nicer life.

I'm not money motivated, happy in my job, grew up with very little.

I am really worn down by constantly having in laws in my life- every day, thinking about how we will manage as they get older, how we will get them to accept help etc.

My wife just trudges on, is happy to just be as is.
I have a fantasy of a smaller house, no in laws, less cleaning and an easier, smaller and peaceful life.

I dont think I want to seperate- thats a big price to pay for a simple life plus impact on kids. Because I grew up with very little I have no attachment to this place or to wealth.

Happy for advice.

Can you imagine discussing the practicalities? Like even where would we start? I cant get an answer to whether she can bring a horsebox to the front door.

You in the other hand have the patience of a saint, articulate, measured, considerate. Not sure she deserves you all said and done tbh ...

I cant get an answer to whether she can bring a horsebox to the front door

I know it's no laughing matter but that is quite funny

I know. I live in a comedy. Then my Dr asks why my blood pressure is so high....
My internet search history is all about solo walks alone in Spain or somewhere I dont have to think.😐

@Onceuponawhileago Grrr, I’m fuming on your behalf, her silent response and all this drama is ridiculous! My DH and I have this type of conversation all the time-X is happening on Tuesday so could you please do Y by Wednesday, etc. It’s called life and you just have to get on with it!

Personally, I’d be delighted that you’d managed to find a cleaner and would be very happy to facilitate it. I wouldn’t bother discussing it further, just bung everything in the horse box and let her take it to the recycling centre. Presumably she’ll want to use the horse box for horses at some point so she’ll have to empty it then!

Don’t engage with any drama later today. Say that you’re putting everything in the house box, end of.

Doh 'not at all clear' sorry.
I mean presumably if you've said you will never farm then they know they will have to hire in at some point ?

And the same question for your wife,too - what does she actually expect to happen,in detail, as they age and then die?

I do think you are being abused Op. by the iLs and by your wife. She sounds like she might have adhd, and also an abusive dynamic with her parents but that's no excuse for dismissing your real misery over and over again. She must see and ignore the fact that you are doing all of the shitwork.

Who knows? The great unspoken.

Your life sounds awful and I feel contempt for your controlling manipulative wife so how you say you don't, is strange.

Her crying is so deliberate as to be laughable.

I think your only option if you don't wish to separate is to detach emotionally.

By that I mean, the cleaner is a priority.

You need to focus on a positive connection with your children and actively detach from your wife, her parents and their lives.

She stone walls you effectively, I suggest you mirror it back to her.

Stop engaging in any way about her family.

Up the activities you do solo and with the children.

Separate bedrooms so that she is left to her mess.

Continue with your therapist but I don't think couples therapy will help.

She is getting everything she wants and stone walls you when you try to talk about things.

Time to accept your reality.

How you have lasted with her family on top of you only God knows.

Leave her and her parents to it and start focusing on your life and probably going solo in the future.

She is not changing, you are wasting you time thinking thats happening.

You have a very big house. It is worth considering that the cleaner has lots to clean and the place where the junk is could wait until another time. Getting a cleaner in is a huge success and it is a shame it has turned into an argument.

Your wife's responses are those of a depressed woman who knows she will never shape up for you.

The whole cleaning thing has clearly become such a bone of contention in your home that expecting normal responses is no longer possible. Every discussion about it will be a loaded one that reinforces her inferiority as a homemaker in your eyes.

The more I read, the more I think that you need to strike out on your own and free you both up lead your own lives. You are not happy with her - she does not shape up - and from your posts she is not happy either.

Might it be worth listing the things that you do like about her and that she does well in your eyes?

We cannot always be everything that our partners want us to be.

'Your wife's responses are those of a depressed woman who knows she will never shape up for you'

I dont think so, all I wanted was a response, preferably one that would help us both move the stuff thats sitting in the hall before cleaner comes.

Upthread I listed some of the things that I admire about her. Its entirely possible to resolve this with better communication and listening on both our parts.

What is she busy doing?

I've really tried to imagine that there's another side to this, and then to imagine what it might be, but I keep coming back to the conclusion that this is purely controlling behaviour - that she's in the habit of throwing up obstacles to whatever you try to do, or how you try to do it, and when she eventually runs out of anything she can reasonably claim to be a valid obstacle, she wheels out the silent treatment or cries. It seems to me that the problem here is not the junk or the driving of the horsebox, but the fact that you are setting the agenda when she would rather have done. But what is her agenda? I don't see that living in squalour is an agenda per se, unless the perpetuation of her parents' way of doing things is what's important to her, or unless - as I alluded to before - this is some kind of misplaced and very late teenage-style rebellion.

The only other attraction of this behaviour I can think of is simply that it messes with your head, and that she knows she can make use of that. You're trying to make progress; she reflexively thwarts it. I'm curious - but don't feel obliged to say - how your addiction/recovery journey fits in timewise alongside your relationship with her. Is there any possibility that she preferred you when you were messed up, because she got to be the strong one? Or were you both messed up originally, and she misses the chaos of that? She seems keen to sabotage you, and I don't understand why. Or perhaps I've got the timeline all wrong.

The other thing I picked up on was one of the kids saying 'mum is busy'. Is that true? Or is it a narrative she pushes so hard that the kids have bought it? (Maybe she believes it herself.) Or is your child learning to be a peacemaker, just as you did as a child? (That's a worry, if so.)

I think the effect all of this is having on your relationship with your kids is something you need to look at more closely too. You say you (both) have done a good job with the kids, but in my experience where there's outstanding unspoken business between the parents, it damages relations between the kids and the parents as individuals. I'm not urging you to leave your wife, but if you end up splitting anyway, imo it would be better to do it sooner rather than later from the POV of having time to work on your relationships with your kids before they're leaving home.

I'm just kind of throwing ideas to see if any of them sticks to the wall for you. Hope some of it's helpful.

The stalemate you are mired in has affected you deeply, and threatens to claim your marriage and your children's security.

It all sounds maddening.

Have you sat the ILs down and told them precisely how you feel and what you want? The family enmeshment you are describing between the ILs and your wife is not healthy for anyone.

Can you start by ending the Christmas tradition?

I know this may sound hackneyed but I think your wife needs a professional assessment for depression and for ADD. Your remark that it's like dealing with an alcoholic rings so true of life with someone with chronic depression or ADD or both. They often go together.

Fwiw, the ILs sound depressed too or possibly starting to feel the effects of dementia. Letting the farm fall down, not seeing to maintenance, resulting in massive inconvenience and even loss of income on your part and still refusing to come to grips with things is very worrying.

Agree with everything @WoolyMammoth55 says.

Solid advice there, OP.

So MIL insists on the farm and the livestock and FIL goes along?

Your wife has clearly taken her ideas of how relationships work from that.

The convo about the horsebox was revealing. She is asked to do something and acts as though it was an attack. Her response was avoidance, just as she avoids everything else.
What's she so busy with though? Why did your child speak on her behalf claiming she's busy? There's a vibe of the child protecting her. Is it even true that she's too busy? It seems unlikely, especially since you weren't asking her to do it on a specific day and time.
It really does look like she can't face up to any of it, the house, farm and parents, and she's dragging you down with her.
How would she react (after the crying and silence) if you said that either the two of you made plans to move away, put the ponies in livery and leave the ILs to do whatever they want; or you're leaving so you can have something closer to a normal life?

I don't understand why you spend so much of your free time alone. Where is your wife while you're out walking? What is she doing? Where are your kids? Why aren't you spending time together as a family?

And you mentioned that your MIL has a cleaner. Could you get some cleaning help in once a month? Close off some of the rooms so that you (as a family) have less to clean? And why aren't your kids helping around the house?

I know that you don't want to leave your wife and kids, but it seems that you are in an impossible position. Your ILs will need a lot more help as they age, so you'll probably be seeing more of them, not less. And why are you going to dinner with them if you don't want to? Can't you make an excuse and not go?

I'm not going to be quite as agreeable.

As previous poster said, you sem to be quite distant from your wife and children, does she have them most of the time whilst you dissapear with these solo pursuits?

You say you work, so you bring in a good wage, why do you talk of her parents spending money, are you not doing up your house you live in yourself. And the cleaner, if her parents have one, can't you hire the same one as it's only next door.

You say she starts crying when you 'nag' her, could she be frightened of you, you do seem quite particular, you also seem quite invested on eventually being apart from her but not severed and divorced.
Maybe your thoughts about money are not entirely truthful, you actually sound quite controlling to me and the way your child immediately stood by your wife sounds a little telling.

Could you not have your own living room, bedroom, study which is entirely for you, kept clean and separate because you clearly have different priorities, which you would have known from the start. I really can't hear any faults from you, it's just ctitism for your wife and her parents.

You don't sound happy, whether your wife is, who knows but if you feel that you do absolutely everything then I would start to think about separating, you are beginning to show contemp and resentfulness towards her and her parents. I presume they gave you the house you live in.

Sometimes you just can't change people, no matter how much you want to. This way of life has obviously paid off for them down the generations and I doubt you will change their views or ways.

She is self employed like me. Both my kids also ride competitively so that takes a lot of time.

This is not thought about. They say they have funds to cover private care. Maybe they do. But one could end in a nursing home for ages. Thats expensive, however its their money so they should use it whatever way they want.

It sounds like a tough and ultimately untenable situation, OP.

For what it's worth, we have split chores so I do cooking, laundry, most financial stuff and holidays, and my partner does cleaning and gardening.

When you met your wife, what was the dynamic between you?

I notice that you say "There's no adult to adult relationship really" and this comes across in several of your posts. Has this always been the case, or has it changed over time?

For now, would it be worth you changing the dynamic from your side, by keeping to an adult role, and giving her the chance to respond in kind?

E.g. "Darling, great news! I've managed to find a cleaner to come for an introductory visit on Wednesday. I know it's really short notice - is there any chance you would be able to take the rubbish to the dump in the horse box tomorrow? I realise you may have plans, so if that doesn't work for you, no problem - there will still be 15 rooms. Then maybe you and I could do a dump run later in the week, or I can do two car trips?"

As things stand, it sounds like you've given her an adult to child order, in front of the children. That makes it really hard for her to respond in one of the very sensible adult ways you have outlined, because she's been caught on the hoof and the adult > child dynamic is already in play - so silence rather than arguing might have been the best choice at that point.

So, Im curious too.
Is she throwing up obstacles?
Does she wish I was still messed up?
Is it control for her?
Does she have ADD or depression and cannot think it through?
Is she afraid of me?
Im not sure any of the above are true.
Why is she doing it so?
I asked this later last night.
She said she didnt know if she could do it as kids were going to a pony competition today and she was working also. So I get that, Im also working but I said there were lots of things she could have said instead of nothing. Even if she said I cant do it at all then we could have figured a different day. I was not insisting on a time. Was I being controlling to ask?
I think that she learned this in her family of origin. Its kind of not really committing to anything isnt it? Why is that? Thats maybe what we should discuss with a therapist. Maybe I should ask differently and present choices or maybe she should lead the whole project and decide how to do it or maybe I should do everything and do it without being resentful? Maybe thats closer to her parents where her mother directs her father via expectation.

My kids, of course they see tension, but I think all kids see this to some extent. I actually think its important to model how problems get figured out but this problem cant be figured like it is with two different communication styles.

No the IL are directive. Her mother is in this matriarch role and so there is little discussion. So its kinda them as adults and us as kids. So sitting down with them, they would prob not be hot on that.
Does my wife have ADD? I dont know anough about it. Is it likely? If depressed Im not sure she shows that?
Christmas I figured that the best thing might be to do xmas day here so my kids dont miss grand parents and then go off for a few days right after. I get my escape, they get their christmas. I have something to look forward to.

Couldn't you take the DCs with you if you go away after Christmas and indeed why not your DW?