In laws doing my head in, midlife crisis and what to do next?

[Onceuponawhileago]

Hello good people of Mumsnet. Long term user - namechanged.

I'm M 49 and my wife is 50. Together 23 years, two kids 15 and 12.
I come from a different background than my wife, mine is working class, history of sexual abuse and subsequent addiction and alcohol issues. I went through many years of counselling and addiction suport and got better.

My wife comes from a wealthy background- in our relationship we are pretty good together. We share children stuff, I do most of the cleaning, house organising and any ongoing repairs etc as its an old house. My wife is not really into cleaning and more messy than me, I figure that cleanliness matters to me so I do it for me rather than have arguments about it. Cannot get a cleaner - too remote.

Years ago we started living close to her parents- their house is on a farm, ours on the farm too and so we see them most days. I would say her parents are essentially kind but not very empthatic, tone deaf sometimes and oblivious to poorer people and especially my kind of background. Often they just 'dont understand' why we dont have a cleaner or repair the house etc. Its because we are on average salaries living in a house that requires more upkeep than we can afford. My wife will inherit a lot of money so in a way she feels she should stay close to her parents and also its her family home and will inherit farm etc.

Her parents farm the land but badly so lots of stuff falling down etc. They want full contol of their farm and are gettting more difficult as they age so wont accept suggestions of getting in help on the farm even though they have millions in the bank and could easily pay for a nicer life.

I'm not money motivated, happy in my job, grew up with very little.

I am really worn down by constantly having in laws in my life- every day, thinking about how we will manage as they get older, how we will get them to accept help etc.

My wife just trudges on, is happy to just be as is.
I have a fantasy of a smaller house, no in laws, less cleaning and an easier, smaller and peaceful life.

I dont think I want to seperate- thats a big price to pay for a simple life plus impact on kids. Because I grew up with very little I have no attachment to this place or to wealth.

Happy for advice.

@YRGAM
The PIL wealth is important because it gives them the means to do stuff to make life easier for EVERYONE. I dont care about the money but having less of their drama would be great. Cleaning is important because if I don't clean it is not done, simple as. It does not happen - carpets are left for months, toilets are left for months, cupboards are left for months. Fridge would never be cleaned unless I did it. I am very frustrated probably because I feel like I do most of this stuff. I'm happy to do my share but if I leave a load for the dishwasher it will still be there ALWAYS for me to do.

@Onthedunes No I don't want out from a relationship that is fundamentally good. We have the same view of the world mostly and have done a good job with our kids. But there are a few issues which we do discuss, she agrees to pull her weight/ get organised and it falls by the wayside until I address it again or just do it myself (creates resentment). I am fully aware cleaning is not important to her but it is important just to keep the house clean and to give the kids the life skill of being able to clean in their own lives. Thats important for their relationships in the future I think.

@Cameleongirl Thats the nail on the head there. I am sandwiched - I really try to avoid my PIL as much as I can and not get involved. Its their money to spend as they like but not spending it creates problems which we will have to deal with down the line.
Basic things like they know a tree on the farm hanging over the road is aged and it needs to be cut but they wont pay to get it cut then it falls in a storm having leaned on electricity wires for months and cuts off our electricity and broadband which means I can't work (self employed). Then its emergency stations moving a tree off the road in the rain when they just could have cut it a few monrths ago. Stupid, preventable shit like that. If I lived in a different house I would be free of that drama. Now I ignore to the best of my ability.

Thats the PIL stuff and ten my own house is just constantly spinning plates while my wife ignores cleaning and cries when we talk about sharing out jobs or potentially moving in future. I'm not saying what we SHOULD do I'm asking what she THINKS we should do so we can plan a few different scenarios.

You are not an equal decision-maker here, OP. Your wife likes being near her parents, she likes not cleaning, she likes having help with the kids as well (ponies, space). There's nothing wrong with liking all those things, but there is something wrong in not listening to your partner or being prepared to meet them half way. Crying makes you back off- so it's quite good for her, you shut up for a bit and the status quo is maintained.

Of course you could make a rota or have some jobs that are only hers, or divvy them up between the kids and you all, or get a cleaner in- but if she cries and doesn't change anything then basically you clean up after everyone, win for them really but not for you.

Ultimately it depends how much you want to chart your own course in life whether you can continue like this? If you love your wife, want to stay married and are reasonably ok with this situation, then I don't think anything will change, because there's no incentive for her to change, she's not going to lose you, just put up with a bit of moaning every now and again.

People say it's not about cleaning, but in a way the cleaning is symbolic of the whole problem, your wife has decided where and how you live and how you will live in the future, and does not want to discuss compromise or change.

Only you can decide if you can live with that. I couldn't because I don't want to clean toilets whilst everyone else skips about. My husband was exceptionally undomesticated due to indulgence by parents, but even he used the appliances (washing machine, dishwasher) and learnt to clean a toilet after a few years and after realising that it mattered to me not to be the household servant.

@Dylanesque Thanks for a really insightful and kind post. Yeah that is an idea to leave stuff for my wife to clean but unfortunately I break before my wife as it matters more to me. She will happily live with hoovering the stairs once a year, cleaning the bathrooms every three months or more. So if we break up tasks and agree a rota - she's in all guns blazing cleaning the first time for hours promising that this is how it is then thats it till next argument or until I do it. In my view if she did an hour on a Saturday she would be on top of it all the time. I really wrestle with this stuff because I think relationships are joint effort and should be fair but the not listening to me cuts deeper as I think she does not care. I've told her what growing up in a dirty house neglected as a child did to me - I'm not obsessed with cleanliness but basics are important.

I dont care about PIL money - they are ruled by it and I am ambivilent about it and thus probably a little less concerned about it. My kids will have more wealth than I ever ever had and thats great for them. There is nothing I want financially from PIL. Yes I do feel robbed a little by circumstance - there are lots of advantages living here but I feel I need my own space. Its classic midlife stuff though eh? Kids getting older, life with partner looming. PIL aging, wealth coming into it. What do I want? Can I re-engineer the relationship so it feels more equal for me and my wife is happy with that? Lots of Q's.

'To put it brutally, maybe some inner voice is saying 'why should a working class lad like me have to deal with the advancing decrepitude of rich folks?'' - Precisely.

hey OP, I’m in a similar situation to you - moved during lockdown with DH and 2 DC to be near in-laws in a very remote area - we even share a garden with them too! Similar class dynamic as well, I’m a working class lass at heart and they are genteel hippies with money coming out of their ears

First 2 years were really tough, I felt like a complete spare part in my own family home/life.

what really changed things for me was getting a job locally that got me out of the house (I was WFH before - sounds like you are too?) and made a real effort to make friends in the village on my own terms - stuff I wouldn’t usually do like join the school parent council etc. Building my own life in the area, separate from my in-laws and yes, my DH and kids too helped me regain my sense of self outside the (basically nice but sometimes very claustrophobic) home space.

Thinking outside the box here!
You say your hobby is gardening but your kind of not free to do that where you are right now. Would seeing if there are any local allotments available.
I'm thinking that way it would give you a space which is yours to do as you please with. A space completely away from the farm and the house where you can potter about without interference. With a decent shed and some mobile wifi you could potentially do some wfh there too. And it would be a low cost financially.

It absolutely wouldn't resolve the issues with your wife and in-laws but might make the situation more manageable?

Thank you @FarFarFarAndAway
Yes thats the scenario we are entering. I'm open to change more than she is and she has obligations for care but they can also afford care as they are wealthy.

There is a kind of ' all these assets will one day be yours' vibe going on but I don't really give a shit about that- I'm not driven by money.
We have met the PIL financial advisor who is talking about inheritance and its clear its going to be a trickle down sort of plan so I'm not waiting for the golden pay day.

The best thing in my mind right now would be that my kids go to college in 4 & 6 years time. Then we discuss downsizing. There is nothing to stop us getting a smaller house and living close by in my mind. It offers less work, an easier relationship, less energy costs ( last gas bill was £750) and I don't have to see them.

In 23 years we have been together we have always had Christmas with them, always the same grim day. Last three years I just cried on the day with frustration and stress. I would just like to go away to a hotel with no drama and relax. If we could move, even down the road it would solve nearly all our problems.

We could rent our house out easily if we did a bit of work on it.
Maybe our relationship exists with me in a second home and her going between both - I don't know. It is a big thing to ask her to leave her family home etc but I also feel I have done my time for 23 years of living with her parents close by.
Tonight we have to go there for dinner and I am already thinking of ways to shorten the event. Tricky times.
I see the farm and them getting older and they said they wont rent it out and I'm thinking 'well I'm not farming it or doing anything to it' So they want it all - us to stay here, see their grandchildren, farm the farm their way, bring in timber, help with livestock. All stuff I have no interest in.

Oh, wow, I really feel for you @Onceuponawhileago and I'm not sure why pp are having a go. I think you have a few different problems here and they've become quite difficult to disentangle, especially when your wife isn't really engaging properly with the fact that there's a problem at all.

So one is the housework and household planning. I relate to your position as the only person who 'notices' it all, and I have to say that actually I think 'not noticing' it is generally a myth and an excuse. Unless your wife is genuinely a too posh to wash type then I think she's being lazy and needs to be called out on that fact. You either need to share the gruntwork more equally or there needs to be an acknowledgement that you're doing more, and some kind of balancing that out needs to be happening.

I also get that mess and chaos can be, as it were, psychic, rather than material or literal. It sounds to me like the mental overhead of trying to meet multiple people's needs, anticipate the next fuck up or catastrophe, deal with stuff no one else is dealing with, all against a gradient of other people refusing to acknowledge that any of this is even happening is pushing you ever closer to the edge. I think this is huge, and absolutely has to be addressed urgently. I suspect you're closer to the edge than you realise.

And I also think that living in the pocket of your inlaws is an incredibly tough gig even when it's absolutely what everyone wants and everyone is pulling their weight - except that neither of those things is the case here. The idea that your MIL is drifting around giving you pointers for what needs doing when you're trying just to be in your own home is unbelievably crass and rude, tbh. If this is her SOP, then you're more patient than I would be, that's for sure. Do they know your background? I think in many ways it's a red herring, but when I imagine that as a scenario, it makes me wonder if they're kind of treating you like 'the staff', and if so it's no wonder you're unhappy and resentful.

To me, the real problem here is your wife, though. Although your ILs sound nightmarish, and I completely understand why you'd want to move away (and perhaps should never have moved to be so close in the first place), I also think moving away wouldn't really fix the problem they represent. Sure, you'd be out of the daily vortex of chaos, but they wouldn't change in nature, and it would still fall to your wife, and by extension you, to sort out their dramas, which might even be worse if that all occurred at a distance and took even more time out of your day/week/year - unless you actually cut all contact, which I don't see your wife agreeing to tbh (and nor should she have to).

But the fact that your wife seems to present this situation as the basic terms of engagement - live on my parents' land, deal with their needs, be sucked into all their drama, handle all the practical stuff and all the housework with no help from me, and I'll cry if you raise any complaints or discussion points at all - well, that seems to me to be fundamentally and massively unreasonable. If you're not happy, then she has to be willing to discuss that, surely, and willing to renegotiate the detail of your life together? Or what's the alternative? For every day together to be a form of ultimatum from her to you: put up with anything and everything or leave and lose your family? That's really not fair.

I think you have to start talking about what your and her real priorities are, because at the moment, she seems to be saying everything is her priority and you need to give in over all of it. Everything except your wellbeing, in fact.

You are not an equal decision-maker here, OP. Your wife likes being near her parents, she likes not cleaning, she likes having help with the kids as well (ponies, space). There's nothing wrong with liking all those things, but there is something wrong in not listening to your partner or being prepared to meet them half way. Crying makes you back off- so it's quite good for her, you shut up for a bit and the status quo is maintained.
Yep, she does get nearly everything her way. People asked on here whether she would divorce me - hell no, she gets everything done for her. I do all life admin - she will commit to donig things and then forget/ not do/ etc etc which drives me nuts. I then do and take control because its the only way to get stuff done. Things like not paying a workman from our account, losing kids passport applicvation, not renewing insurance - just hapless stuff. I use a list app and I tick off what I have to do as I am hopeless without it. She will not make a list. The crying as a tactic was already pointed out to me by a psychotherapist - it gets the situation defused. It basically builds in tension until we go to argument- then apologies - then commitment to change - then failure to do it... etc etc.

Of course you could make a rota or have some jobs that are only hers, or divvy them up between the kids and you all, or get a cleaner in- but if she cries and doesn't change anything then basically you clean up after everyone, win for them really but not for you.
Yes, I clean all and without her steppng up then the kids see they dont have to and I appear as some sort of nag cleaning the fridge.

Ultimately it depends how much you want to chart your own course in life whether you can continue like this? If you love your wife, want to stay married and are reasonably ok with this situation, then I don't think anything will change, because there's no incentive for her to change, she's not going to lose you, just put up with a bit of moaning every now and again.
This is the crossroads I am at now. Can I get OK with this? I watch her going through the motions of commiting and failing every time - its like living with an alcoholic. I think if it did not change I'd have to leave when kids went to college and I bet she would be really surprised. Despite me telling her how important it is to share workload she does not take it seriously.

People say it's not about cleaning, but in a way the cleaning is symbolic of the whole problem, your wife has decided where and how you live and how you will live in the future, and does not want to discuss compromise or change.

Exactly - its not the clean fridge. Its not the cleaned bathroom. its 'I heard you when you said this mattered and I'm going to do my best in helping you to do this even if I don't like it so much'

My MIL once said she was sorry that my wife didnt clean she 'just never taught her' But my MIL has a cleaner, and a smaller house.

@HopeIsNotAStrategy Thanks for your post.

Yes she is obligated. Her brother sadly passed years ago so she is only child. But she also has her own familiy and me. I look at us now and I wonder what happens when kids leave? What then? They are not my parents. Its not my money. Maybe I want peace and a small house and not to clean and organise and see off drama all the time.

A holiday might be good. Its kind of hard on holiday now though as we have not so much left to say which is awful as all our lives are taken up with daily drama of lust living here. I think her parents and their far,m take up so much more work than she realises. I really truly stay away as much as I can from them.

The clear out and routines - have tried many many times. See my other posts. She never sticks with her commitment which is why it is so corrosive to me.

Thanks for your post.

Yes, I clean all and without her steppng up then the kids see they dont have to and I appear as some sort of nag cleaning the fridge.

Yes, this is important, and is something else I relate to, having just left a partner who behaved similarly. Firstly, as you say, it's not just about the cleaning, it's about the failure to accept that this thing you said was important to you needs to be taken seriously, otherwise you are not being taken seriously in the relationship. But then also, it's about what the children learn about your importance in the family and the household. I reached the point where I felt I was being painted into roles in the family narrative that were not me, and not who I wanted to be, thanks.

You do sound awfully unhappy, although perhaps I'm projecting. You say that separation isn't an option, and yet in the next breath you're considering some kind of staying-together-but-living-apart arrangement (I considered that too). I actually think you're trying the idea of separation on for size, but it hasn't yet passed from being a possible thing in your mind to being an actual viable thing. If your wife utterly refuses to engage with your unhappiness, it's only a matter of time though imo. Self-actualisation is an incredibly important aspect of adult human life, once the basic needs have been met. I suspect it's what you mean when you talk longing of 'peace'.

Sorry, bold fail at the top there...

I think a holiday would be good for many reasons, not least that for once it would just be your own family unit, rather than the extended one.
A bit of space may help for DW to see that being away from her DPs is actually a good thing, but she sounds so enmeshed in them that it feels unlikely.

Quite apart from all that's going on now, have you and your wife discussed what will happen if/when her parents need more care? Sounds like they will dig their heels in and refuse to have outside help, and before you know it you'll be keeping their house clean as well as your own, doing their laundry, cooking their meals and giving them a shower.

Sorry to make the future sound bleak but there's more to consider than the here and now. Quite honestly I think it's time for some ultimatums.

Interesting.
I have booked a few sessions with a psychotherapist to go through this and all of the opinions on this thread.
I agree that we are given opportunities in life to move forward and change and we have to be open to them.
Trying on for size is a good anaology.

In my mind its a Q like this 'When does this get so irretrievably bad that I have to leave?'

I still think this can be saved but it involves re-balancing:

1. The impact of my PIL in our lives
2. My wife stepping up to the plate and sharing workload
3. More time together
4. A conversation about some sort of respite - that means moving or a smaller house where we can go away for the weekend. Moving might not be for now but might be in the years to come.

I'm very afraid of hurting my kids, being selfish and leaving just for me, not recognising my wife is allowed to have her connection to her home, she didn't pick her parents etc.

If I was to change anything about my life it would be about coming to live here in the first place. I think if I was on my own I'd be very sad, maybe sadder than I am now. But I don't think my wife truly knows how difficult it is for me and I've stoped discussing it with her because her entering the cycle of crying, promising, trying, failing is just mind numbing.

@Holymole I have made it quite clear that that is a red line- walk away from the marraige issue for me. I am not farming, fixing the farm, looking after livestock, having her parents living with us, doing daily care for her parents. Absolutely no way. My wife knows I would pack a bag and be gone if any of the above happened. We did discuss this with her parents and their financial advisor and I made that clear. Thats why I think downsizing when my kids go to college is best option. Live close by - she can do her stuff and still have a relationship.

Re the farm work, do you think your inlaws would be amenable to taking on apprentices? Some can be funded by the government, and you could spin it as "putting back into the industry"? I had a chat with a friend last night who's husband is a farmer, and his dad is still involved in the family farm at 82 years old, but has finally noticed that a son and five fit strapping grandsons can do the job a lot easier and quicker than he does. He also has come to understand what new trends/developments can do to help - he'd be still working on milking machines but his son has been to college and brought in a milking robot, anerobic digester, and organic farming. Dad still has the final say on things like what tractor to buy though!

I don't think so. They were out yesterday dosing sheep in the hot sun, wrestling lambs about, getting knocked over. They are both mid 70's. Unable to enjoy life with the money they have. My FIL will be chainsawing a tree down one day on his own, then moving bark mulch etc. But they are really failing at it as the farm needs more input. Fields are in rag order, weeds, broken fences etc etc. No, they want to do it all even if it means stress for them and ultimately as my wife & I have said to them - 'we inherit a farm that needs a huge amount of work to fix'
I get that its difficult to step back and say 'we are too old for this' but it needs to be done but it would come with so much oversight that it would be undoable.

the cycle of crying, promising, trying, failing is just mind numbing.

Do you think she's genuine? Even in the moment? I ask because, again, this is all very familiar to me. I really didn't understand for a long time how such good intentions could come to nothing over and over again. I've just left a 20+ year relationship, and honestly, we have had the same two arguments over and over again for almost all of that time. I didn't want to leave, but reluctantly, eventually, had to accept that the lure of the familiar rut was more important to my partner than my happiness was. (And like you, I then had to ask myself whether my own happiness was sufficiently important to me that I would upset the applecart. It has all taken a lonnnggg time...)

I'm wary of projecting too much of my situation on to yours, but perhaps it might be useful as a thought experiment. I came to see that the apologies and promises were part of a cycle of passive aggression, and that by being cast in the role of naggy villain, I was actually being forced to reenact some kind of teenage rebellion that my partner had never felt safe having for real with his own parents - in other words, that a lot of the disregard for my needs and feelings was actually not directed at me, although it had that effect.

Your wife is so enmeshed still with her family of origin that I'm wondering if there might be something similar going on here (perhaps connected with fallout from her sibling's death?). Sadly, in my situation, my partner just wouldn't engage meaningfully with therapy but I would think there could be a lot to unpack here if your wife is open to the idea. For sure, she doesn't sound as though she's quite crossed the bridge into adulthood yet in some ways.

I can see both sides. I can understand why you might want a bit of freedom from the in-laws, especially as you seem to feel in some way inferior because of your upbringing; but I can also see why she does not want to move: disruptive to children, you would all finish up moving back anyway one day when she inherits and it is familiar to her.

The issue of housework will go with you if you move. I do understand how this happens - my OH's filth threshold was much lower than mine - his need to clean was triggered earlier. Farmhouses are often a bit on the scruffy side with people in muddy boots wandering in and out.

Is there any way that you and your wife can build or move to some other property on the land? You do seem to be right on top of the ILs, which is not usually necessary on a farm with land, and is very far from ideal.

Moving away now would be hard for your wife as it would come across (and is) as wishing to move away from the ILs with all the inevitable long-term emotional fall-out. And you would probably find yourself up against your children too, unless there is some gain for them.

The only thing I can suggest is to rein back on the housework and get away on your own more. Go on a very long hike ... weeks away from it all and see how tings are when you return. Or even do a retreat - Iona is good.

Deep down I think you need to ask yourself a very fundamental question as to whether you love your wife enough to stick with the current situation.

Btw, I don't see a holiday as being much of a solution here, but if you do decide to try that, fgs do yourself a favour and take it over Christmas. Your description of your last couple of Christmasses almost brought a tear to my eye.

I do think in that moment she is sad yes but then a day later it is in the mist of time. She would be surprised if I said I was done with it. Would wonder - despite me telling her. I guess I have told her for so long its kind one big soundtrack. I see it as a choice for her:

1. Continue to erode our relationship


2. Agree to step up

Every time she takes option 1 i see it as another nail thats difficult to extract.

I thnk my wife is very enmeshed with her parents. They call the shots - my MIL really. My MIL would be appalled if I called her controlling she thinks she is fully open to all.
A psychotherapist did illustrate that boom to bust stuff in my relationship - the same arguments as you say.
He also said its a convenient role play to have me playing the rule keeping/ checking up/ parent and her playing the immature, incapable child who resports to crying to escape the argument.
Theres no adult to adult relationship really.
Exhausting. I think if I left I'd never see anyone again in relationship terms again.
I fully understand why partners make a break for freedom once kids are gone.

I wouldn't be waiting years until the children leave for further education... I'd be pulling the plug now. Life is short, you have tried and tried to remedy this problem on your own and it's just not working.

Both your wife and your parents need to realise NOW that things need to change, at the very least money needs to be spent to get the farm back in a reasonable state. I think the only way that would happen would be if you are literally not physically there to take up the burden...you've said that you've told them that you won't, when the time comes...I would bet good money that they've 'listened' but they don't truly believe you, that if it came down to an emergency situation, you'd have no choice but to step in...and then be stuck with it.

I'd be seeing a solicitor and looking for somewhere else nearby for you to live. Your children can still see you, your wife can still play farmer with her incompetent parents and you will have the relief of not having to be constantly around them. I think after 23 years you've done your time in this particular prison.

Two things:

• the whole how much cleaning is right is a difficult one. I know that I saw my OH as a bit OCD - housework was never a priority with me and we were just worlds apart on this. Is there room for compromise here? Would the world still turn if the dishwasher was not emptied when you want it to be? - if there was dust on the stairs? etc.


• Do you feel that your conversations with her about all the things that are troubling you get back to the ILs? I would find that very troubling indeed.