Sorry to post again, but this thread really bothers me and, god help you, I finally had time to read it all through and respond “fully” 😋
Many PPs just seem to have focused on “Man gets cross with wife” or “Difficult in-laws living too close” and are reacting to that. You’ve had abuse and ridicule, saying you’re spoilt, selfish, a martyr, just after the money, and worse. You’ve absorbed all that as though it’s fair, as all abused children learn to do. They seem to have missed bits like this:
I think relationships are joint effort and should be fair but the not listening to me cuts deeper as I think she does not care. I’ve told her what growing up in a dirty house neglected as a child did to me – I'm not obsessed with cleanliness but basics are important.
From what you’ve described, your wife would drive anyone nuts. She just cries when you try to talk about a fairer division of labour?! That’s just as bad as a man shouting at his wife when she tries to raise the subject. Your fantasies about moving abroad, or having a place of your own, are probably to do with needing space just to get away from that constant feeling of not being heard, not to mention the constant needless drama. You’ve had enough fucking drama and neglect in your life.
I love hiking as I have to go away and have peace but it makes me feel like I am a loner as I do it on my own – not very family oriented
Never feel sheepish about your solitary hikes. They are probably what keeps you sane.
Maybe the unbalanced dynamics of your relationship are not about time management, so much as the mismatch of effort you each feel the need to make in life. She’s had things handed to her on a plate; you have had a constant struggle, for emotional as well as financial security. You might feel that you have to work hard to earn love and respect from people, and can never fully relax, and that’s why this all seems just about tolerable.
What worries me about this thread is how ready you are to blame yourself, and (with a few extreme exceptions) to accept blame heaped on you by MNers.
Clearly my learning … is that I communicate in a way (in difficult circumstances) that does not help my wife be the best person she could be and causes us further issues.
You say she likes a more nuanced way of looking at things.
But earlier in the thread, you also mentioned that she
did start individual counselling for herself … [but] left after a few sessions as she got upset at how she was being judged, felt awkward etc.
Counsellors tend to be quite gentle and tactful, so I suspect your communication style is less to blame than her reluctance to face up to things.
Maybe I’m a controlling, damaged, nutjob.
Or maybe she just plays on this fear. You don’t sound like any of these things, quite the opposite.
You mention I’m very afraid of hurting my kids, being selfish and leaving just for me - if you were a woman, MN would be urging you to consider the impact on your kids of presenting this kind of relationship as a normal model for them to follow.
I see it as a choice for her: (1) Continue to erode our relationship or (2) Agree to step up. Every time she takes option 1, I see it as another nail that’s difficult to extract.
Well, yes. How many times are you going to give her that choice?
You raised the question earlier: Can I re-engineer the relationship so it feels more equal for me and my wife is happy with that? Well, it sounds as though you have tried and she is frankly not interested. She thinks paying a cleaner for 3 hours a week to lighten your load is too expensive.
When you say Maybe our relationship exists with me in a second home and her going between both – I don’t know – you’re pulling at straws because she just fobs you off when you try to discuss the downsizing that you suggest, which makes perfect sense. Maybe you could state this clearly as your solution, for her to take or leave? Give her a month to consider it in as many nuanced ways as she likes, without further pressure. Then ask for her decision, and don’t be afraid of the consequences of choosing to strike out alone.
I think if I was on my own I’d be very sad, maybe sadder than I am now. But I don’t think my wife truly knows how difficult it is for me and I’ve stopped discussing it with her because her entering the cycle of crying, promising, trying, failing is just mind numbing.
To have reached the point that you can even consider leaving her means that the situation is causing you indescribable pain. You might be surprised at how much less “sad” you’d feel on your own, if you gave it a proper chance.
Mostly stuff I do is on my own so actually sometimes it’s like I’m separated already.
There you go!
My best friends would say I am capable of seeing awful stuff and making it better and sticking with that like a terrier until it was fixed.
What a wonderful quality. And you have certainly tried and tried, and are continuing to try, to fix this relationship. You are clearly intelligent and resourceful, I wish I could wave a wand and have you magically meet someone adult who matches that instead of this hapless (or possibly malevolent) child you’re stuck with. Sorry to be blunt. I think you knew this when you wrote I watch her going through the motions of committing and failing every time – it’s like living with an alcoholic. Yes, it is. As for your question When does this get so irretrievably bad that I have to leave? – the answer might be that it always has been; it’s just that it can take a while sometimes to grasp that we deserve better, when life has given us crumbs. ("Getting well means the system around you has to change too…")
If you do decide to leave and she is upset, just say “I’m sorry that I did not behave in the way you expected me to behave.” Make sure to pout a little. And don't forget to burst into tears!!!!!!!!!
Dog puked earlier in kitchen, that was left for me to do. That’s where we are at. One day, you will look back and laugh at this.
Longest answer in the history of mumsnet
No, I think I can now claim that prize…?!