In laws doing my head in, midlife crisis and what to do next?

[Onceuponawhileago]

Hello good people of Mumsnet. Long term user - namechanged.

I'm M 49 and my wife is 50. Together 23 years, two kids 15 and 12.
I come from a different background than my wife, mine is working class, history of sexual abuse and subsequent addiction and alcohol issues. I went through many years of counselling and addiction suport and got better.

My wife comes from a wealthy background- in our relationship we are pretty good together. We share children stuff, I do most of the cleaning, house organising and any ongoing repairs etc as its an old house. My wife is not really into cleaning and more messy than me, I figure that cleanliness matters to me so I do it for me rather than have arguments about it. Cannot get a cleaner - too remote.

Years ago we started living close to her parents- their house is on a farm, ours on the farm too and so we see them most days. I would say her parents are essentially kind but not very empthatic, tone deaf sometimes and oblivious to poorer people and especially my kind of background. Often they just 'dont understand' why we dont have a cleaner or repair the house etc. Its because we are on average salaries living in a house that requires more upkeep than we can afford. My wife will inherit a lot of money so in a way she feels she should stay close to her parents and also its her family home and will inherit farm etc.

Her parents farm the land but badly so lots of stuff falling down etc. They want full contol of their farm and are gettting more difficult as they age so wont accept suggestions of getting in help on the farm even though they have millions in the bank and could easily pay for a nicer life.

I'm not money motivated, happy in my job, grew up with very little.

I am really worn down by constantly having in laws in my life- every day, thinking about how we will manage as they get older, how we will get them to accept help etc.

My wife just trudges on, is happy to just be as is.
I have a fantasy of a smaller house, no in laws, less cleaning and an easier, smaller and peaceful life.

I dont think I want to seperate- thats a big price to pay for a simple life plus impact on kids. Because I grew up with very little I have no attachment to this place or to wealth.

Happy for advice.

'Turning his wife into a project is acceptable in what parallel universe?'
Its not a project. Its a question about fair division of household work.
Go look at all the female posters on mumsnet today and everyday trying
to get their husbands to clean up, help with kids more etc. Are those
females told they are trying to 'fix' their husbands?? Are they told its
trauma thats making them want that? Or criticised for turning their
husbands into a project.Of
course not, mostly its assumed they are correct im wanting a fair
division of household load and if he does not comply they should leave
the bastard. Look at your double standards

But these women are being left to look after the children all the time, children, housework and working outside of the home in many cases.

You have already stated that you do not and will not do anything farm related, you leave your wife total responsibility of the children's very demanding hobby and you also state you take yourself off solo and leave wife and children home a lot.
Your pursuits do not include your children or being a family. I should imagine some of this childcare has been helped by her parents? You see yourself as separate to me and seem angry that there are any demands put upon your time and energy.

You now have a cleaner, if I were you your wife I'd hire more than one, but I have a feeling there would be something else for you to moan about and micro manage.

So in all, I don't think there is a fair division of labour, it seems to me your wife has had more responsibilty with the children being the responsible and responsive one to them.

Now you're pushing 50, if you haven't sorted things out in your own head by now, a therapist is a waste of money.

That's complete bollocks tbh, so I hope no one reading takes it as any kind of authoritative statement.

This is a complete recharacterisation of the facts as conveyed by the OP on this thread, which is a strange way to respond.

But these women are being left to look after the children all the time, children, housework and working outside of the home in many cases.

OP's children are school age, so 'childcare' as such has no place in this picture. OP works and also seems to do all or nearly all of the housework, just as in the scenario you paint.

You have already stated that you do not and will not do anything farm related,

And neither does his wife.

you leave your wife total responsibility of the children's very demanding hobby

The pony stuff is also her great hobby, and is also the epicentre of her social life, so it's not unreasonable that she should be the more motivated of the two. However, he also said he takes responsibility for turning out the horses and bringing them in on a daily basis as the kids are at school, which is far from nothing, plus sorting feed and stuff.

and you also state you take yourself off solo and leave wife and children home a lot. Your pursuits do not include your children or being a family.

He takes himself off when they're already away for the day competing (on the occasions when he doesn't go too). Nothing has been said about leaving them at home a lot.

I should imagine some of this childcare has been helped by her parents?

There's no evidence for this. If you need to start sentences with "I imagine" then you're just guessing really. What's the point?

You see yourself as separate to me and seem angry that there are any demands put upon your time and energy.

Interesting typo.

This. The double standards on this thread are ridiculous

Oh please. MN rounds on women on all topics.

They wouldn't in that example though.

Imagine this OP if it was a poster's DH and kids who were all into equestrian sports and that every weekend they abandoned the MNer (who works, does all the housework, and a lot of the horse care). I don't think there's a poster who would say that she wasn't doing enough and should learn how to drive the horsebox for them.

Your implication that I’m one that has unfair expectations of men vs women is off the mark and feeds into the OPs martyrdom narrative.

The reply “not my horses” was super defensive nonsense and provided some insight to the OP’s part in things. He can try to see things from another perspective or not.

The post about the horsebox made me realise that there is a lot of black and white thinking going on. There has to be some compromise for them both that does not involve one being in the right and the other being in the wrong. That is seldom the case unless there is no obvious abuse going on.

But it must be hard for the wife never to measure up and to be criticised to the point of tears.

I am sure that they are both doing their best, but it seems they are failing, so a different route needs to be sought. Unhappiness with living in the ILs' laps is entirely understandable on the part of the man; and unhappiness at being put down as not measuring up is understandable on the part of the wife.

If they are both unhappy and cannot compromise, then they should part, or find a mutual lifestyle that does not hurt either. The status quo is clearly untenable.

For my taste, I find the OP's style of dealing with this far too analytical and blame-ridden. He needs to speak out to his ILs and tell them he wants for distance, choice and privacy - who wouldn't? But if you do not say so then resentment festers and becomes toxic. Instead of the ILs hearing his needs, he seems to be holding that in with them, but taking it out on his wife.

Two unhappy people here - not good.

You're starting to get really, really defensive here, OP.

I agree with PP there is a lot of rigidity in your stance and the black and white thinking is very obvious.

You've distanced yourself from your wife and children in every way. They are 'Them' and you are engaged in trench warfare with them just as you have now started to do trench warfare with posters here.

There are patterns to your communication style and content which you don't seem aware of. I would suspect your sarcasm and defensive stance stand in the way of establishing trust in your desire for a better relationship with your wife and your children. You're keeping on doing the same thing, trying to fix everyone and everythingin your home, and wondering why the result you want is not happening. Do you want a healthy relationship with your own family or do you want a clean house where you can continue to live in your own head and you and the family continue to live separate lives, unconnected even down to your refusal to get involved in the pony thing?

Fixing other people will never result in good relationships. The uncontrollable impulse to fix even when the effect on relationships is obvious, and the self-identification as an analytical outsider who does not have an emotional tie to the people in your own family is a dysfunctional way to live. Its a byproduct of trauma and you should examine it with your therapist.

And yes, the AD bit of ADHD means Attention Deficit.
There are many facets to the disorder, and women are undiagnosed because they don't cause trouble in school so fly under the radar.

Chronic stress that comes from living with someone who nags and criticises and offers nothing by way of emotional intimacy can have similar effects to ADD or ADHD, fwiw.

Does she ever tell you what you are lacking in.

Do you allow her to do that ?

She knows full well what you want, but do you know what she wants ?

OP has been defensive all along. It’s just originally he hid it all better.
People reacted to his story of martyrdom and he was receiving what he wanted - sympathy and suggestions of how to fix his W.

But the more he talked - the more the mask started slipping. For me it started when he mentioned miserable Xmas’s year after year. And I thought - hang on.

Family together for Xmas, year after year, three generations. Miserable isn’t the word most people would use. Only someone who only cares about himself.

And this has nothing to do with who does more cleaning and who drives kids to competitions.

Family together for Xmas, year after year, three generations. Miserable isn’t the word most people would use. Only someone who only cares about himself.

And yet people do. Year after year on the boards here, MNers, mostly female, lament the fact that they have to spend Christmas with their PILs yet again because their controlling MIL demands it and their enmeshed spouse agrees to it without discussion. They get a mixed response, ranging from the inevitable 'I only wish my lovely MIL was still alive to be controlling' to 'you should insist your little family spend it in splendid isolation'. But it isn't an uncommon complaint, and certainly doesn't attract reflexive criticism.

It's an Executive Function disorder with many possible facets. Prioritizing, setting goals and doing things in a logical order are some of the potential casualties. Look up Peg Dawson, she has some good basic info.

@AllNightDiner

You are bringing other people’ a stories into this. OP hasn’t called his MIL controlling; or alluded to PIL forcing anything on OP and his W.
All we know is that OP and W bought a house near in laws presumably before their kids were born. And lived there for a long time. Unhappily for OP, and happily for W and his kids. It seems.

And when I asked OP - would his W describe her Xmases as miserable - he started getting defensive.

No, I'm really not. I think you need to reread the thread if you think OP hasn't described his MIL as controlling:

My MIL comes over daily. I cannot be in the garden weeding or pottering but she is there with questions and reminders of things to do.

In 23 years we have been together we have always had Christmas with them, always the same grim day. Last three years I just cried on the day with frustration and stress.

I thnk my wife is very enmeshed with her parents. They call the shots - my MIL really.

I used the farm example as to how my MIL thinks. She wants to control all outcomes.

FIL goes everywhere with my MIL, no personal time. Quietly compliant. My MIL laughs and says she is bossy but I think overinvolved and overbearing.

No the IL are directive. Her mother is in this matriarch role and so there is little discussion.

When i say no to my MIL on something its like an atomic bomb was let off - she cannot believe it. If I challenge her she shuts me down so I avoid.

We went for dinner to PIL last night and I made an effort to really 'watch' what their dynamic was. Her mother controlling and bossing everything - where people sat, which bowl went where, scolding my FIL who did not oppose her. So it was interesting to watch that dynamic in play- kind of school teacher/ child thing going on.

And when I asked OP - would his W describe her Xmases as miserable - he started getting defensive.

But why wouldn't he be feeling defensive? He asked for advice and feedback and obviously he has to accept that that will occupy a spectrum, with people's view of who is at fault reflecting, to a large extent, their own experiences and who they most relate to in this scenario. Fair enough, and I think he's taken a lot of criticism on the chin and, if anything, taken more responsibility for his wife's behaviour than he should reasonably have to do. But in addition, he's also been accused of being cold, selfish, of driving his wife to tears, of making her feel bad about herself, of being spoiled and unappreciative, of abandoning his family to spend time alone, and much else that is going on purely in people's heads and is not what he said at all. Now, some of that is subjective and people are entitled to their opinion, but much of it derives purely from the fact that people aren't bothering to read the thread properly and seem to think he lives in a grace and favour house provided gratis by his PILs, that he enjoys relaxing solitary pursuits while his family are marooned at home alone, and that his wife is miserable and traumatised by his callous behaviour instead of - taking a wild guess here - by the loss of her former partner and the loss of her brother, neither of which she seems to have grieved or processed properly, the weighty expectations and proximity of demanding parents for whom she is now the sole offspring, and a lifestyle that includes short-term money worries and no time off.

It's fine to feel that the OP is less than perfect, and it's fine to tell him so constructively. But this meanspirited pile-on, particularly drawing as it does on things he has not said and that don't appear to have any basis in fact, runs completely counter to the spirit of support and kindness that MN attemps to offer and would not be acceptable if he were a woman describing a relationship she characterised as oppressive. Some of you are being fantastically unpleasant, as well as embarrassingly sexist, and need to stop and remind yourselves that this is an unhappy person who came here for help.

And yet people do. Year after year on the boards here, MNers, mostly female, lament the fact that they have to spend Christmas with their PILs yet again because their controlling MIL demands it and their enmeshed spouse agrees to it without discussion

But there were equal numbers crying all through covid that they couldn't spend Christmas together, about how much they missed their ILs, their own parents, how the grandchildren were losing out, and that's just on MN.

Nationwide, it was the pent-up sorrow about Christmas and other important family events that fueled the outrage about Boris Johnson's little soirees in the garden of Number 10.

The OP is a person who has shown no understanding of human relationships, of why other people might see family relationships differently from his pov. In fact, he has shown a disdain for normal human relationships. He has a cut and dried and very defensive approach to the hobby the children's lives revolve around - why should he learn to drive a horsebox, it's not his ponies and not his hobby.

I think:
He has some very reasonable complaints Re: household maintenance.

It would be fantastically difficult to live on property you own that used to belong to your in-laws.

It would be even worse to see your in-laws every day.

His children sound entirely committed to their mother and to mainly ignore his wishes.

OP sounds like a pretty neat and interesting person. And I’d like to see the garden.

His wife sounds absolutely lovely. I think they sound like a great couple with some minor kinks to resolve. She also sounds overwhelmed and over committed.

I’d like to see the grandparents drive the damn horsebox and helping with the kids and OP + wife spending time alone together.

I think most of these problems will be relieved when the kids get a bit older. And I definitely think renting the big house out and living in the smaller one would end up being a massive relief for OP and an unexpected pleasure for his wife.

Resentment corrodes. The parent child relationship you have with your wife is damaging to everyone and that is to be seen in the relationship you have with your children.

I think your current set up has exposed some serious incompatibility in your relationship that may be eased by moving but won’t be resolved by it. Moving has become a Hail Mary because you know that your wife is not up for the compromises that need to be made to make staying tenable.

Life is too short to be this miserable and as important as your children's hobbies are currently, the long term effect of their parents dysfunctional marriage on them will be great.

Have you thought about separating? Maybe taking time out from the unrelenting drudgery may help in giving you enough breathing space to see what life could be like.

I’m not sure there it’s possible to determine if it is a parent-child relationship without understanding the point of view and behavior of both parties.

Below is unrelated to the OP but I scenario I’ve seen play out.

Lets take, as an example, a person who can be house proud and become compulsive under stress. When they think something should be done, it must be done now. Standards are beyond typical; house is in near perfect order at all times. This person orders their spouse about; over time spouse learned not to jump through the hoops and react to any unreasonable expectations. Spouse continues their normal routine, doing what is actually necessary to keep their lives in order. Other spouse stomps around creating a mood in the house, sometimes melts down a bit. Act the martyr by doing everything immediately rather than giving the other reasonable time to do things. Later admits the problem was something external.

Is that a parent child relationship? Certainly the first spouse thinks they are the authority figure and the house would fall apart without them.

@AllNightDiner

OP came here with a simple story - he does more housework and his W doesn’t care about the house and doesn’t do her share.
Fair enough - lazy partner, poor OP support poured in.

But throughout his lengthy writing - something else started trickling in. It’s always OP Vs them. And ‘then’ include not only his PIL but also his children and his W.
He seems to have been living in enemy territory for many years - resenting his captors, deeply unhappy. And he seems to not recognise or care about what his family feels/needs. He also doesn’t question himself or the routs of his unhappiness.

Can you imagine if his W posted, what her story would have been?
Years ago - given the timing I am guessing 10-15 - she and her H bought a house - presumably a joint decision - possibly financially driven?
Then they had kids - and I am guessing grandparents helped raising them - given proximity.
Kids are having a great life and a hobby that is important to them.
H, however, has been going through some sort of midlife crisis for the past years. And making her life a misery. Complaining and blaming her for decisions they made together, for the life they have built. Picking on her. Not recognising her contribution, seeing himself as a martyr.
Living alongside her family for 10+ years by choice but still acting as a stranger. And now resenting her family and deciding that they all need to uproot so that he could feel better.

What advice would she get?

@AllNightDiner Spot on.

Update.

Appreciate if responses could be civil, Im feeling fragile these last few weeks- lots of work stuff, chronic pain etc. I appreciate all previous responses.

Actions
I got a cleaner 3 hrs per week. All good. My wife thinks its too expensive. House is much cleaner. Plus no building up of grime. Im holding onto cleaner. The cleaning argument is resolved I think.

I started spending far less time with my in laws, avoided a few dinners, dont see them as much as I garden when they are away or early in morning. I make sure to avoid when my mother in law comes over. Much better overall. Easier to see them when I do. Also saying no to lots of stuff they organise. Talked to my wife about the farm thing- she is on the same page. Thinks its nuts how they are doing it but they wont change.

I started seeing a psychotherapist to explore how I react to things, whether my expectations are unfair, realistic etc. What is my pattern around anger. Two sessions in. Will see. Working around how I physically feel anger and why. Why my wife might be how she is and how thats also OK.

I am still very challenged by situations and I dont know why. Maybe childhood stuff, maybe I find stress hard to deal with.

Maybe you can give me advice on this as an example:

Today our youngest had to be at a school introduction night at 6pm as she starts senior school tomorrow. My wife races home on a 3 hour drive from a pony event where they had been since Friday. Mad rush to find uniform, locker stuff, books etc. I asked my wife during the week if it was all organised and if I could do anything as I was at home all day today and yesterday. She said it was. But really it was not, my daughter was in tears, late for school event, unprepared, car full of pony gear etc. If my wife had asked me I could have got everything ready and brought my daughter and discussed maybe getting her home earlier from pony event - Im not sure why we did not discuss. I just found it so chaotic and I was full of resentment for my daughter being so upset and having to scramble- reminded me of when I was a little kid, just eternal chaos. Im unsure why my wife wont ask for help regularly when I can do it without complaint. Im upset that I get so mad. Im upset for my wife that we then are angry at each other. Im not sure how to make it work better. Sometimes it feels like I admin everything and when I let it go this kind of situation happens. Maybe I should just be OK with chaos and let it happen? I like to be organised. My wife less so. Big difference.
Maybe need to talk to psychotherapist. I realise my wife is also free to be her own self too. Just very sad now.

I dont want to sound like a victim or a martyr as other posters have said but I find it hard to resolve stuff like above.

If you were my wife what would you like me to do? Say nothing? Pick up the pieces? Do more?

Thanks

Loads of respect for you, you are working at making things better and doing a great job.

Im unsure why my wife wont ask for help regularly when I can do it without complaint.

I think you have to push to get to the bottom of this. The situation you described woulda me me really upset also. Many possibilities as to why your wife functions this way. One is that she used to living chaotically and doesn’t know how else to do it.

Really glad you’ve come so far and hope you take time to feel good about it. Keep going!

I think it’s hard to answer what I would want in her shoes without knowing why she didn’t just ask you to sort it.

I do this with my DH if:
It’s too complicated to explain what is needed/easier to do it myself.
or
I feel guilty and don’t want him to pick up my slack.
or
If he’s likely to say “why isn’t this done already?” Or something equally annoying.
or
If I sense he’s going to complain about the effort.