In laws doing my head in, midlife crisis and what to do next?

[Onceuponawhileago]

Hello good people of Mumsnet. Long term user - namechanged.

I'm M 49 and my wife is 50. Together 23 years, two kids 15 and 12.
I come from a different background than my wife, mine is working class, history of sexual abuse and subsequent addiction and alcohol issues. I went through many years of counselling and addiction suport and got better.

My wife comes from a wealthy background- in our relationship we are pretty good together. We share children stuff, I do most of the cleaning, house organising and any ongoing repairs etc as its an old house. My wife is not really into cleaning and more messy than me, I figure that cleanliness matters to me so I do it for me rather than have arguments about it. Cannot get a cleaner - too remote.

Years ago we started living close to her parents- their house is on a farm, ours on the farm too and so we see them most days. I would say her parents are essentially kind but not very empthatic, tone deaf sometimes and oblivious to poorer people and especially my kind of background. Often they just 'dont understand' why we dont have a cleaner or repair the house etc. Its because we are on average salaries living in a house that requires more upkeep than we can afford. My wife will inherit a lot of money so in a way she feels she should stay close to her parents and also its her family home and will inherit farm etc.

Her parents farm the land but badly so lots of stuff falling down etc. They want full contol of their farm and are gettting more difficult as they age so wont accept suggestions of getting in help on the farm even though they have millions in the bank and could easily pay for a nicer life.

I'm not money motivated, happy in my job, grew up with very little.

I am really worn down by constantly having in laws in my life- every day, thinking about how we will manage as they get older, how we will get them to accept help etc.

My wife just trudges on, is happy to just be as is.
I have a fantasy of a smaller house, no in laws, less cleaning and an easier, smaller and peaceful life.

I dont think I want to seperate- thats a big price to pay for a simple life plus impact on kids. Because I grew up with very little I have no attachment to this place or to wealth.

Happy for advice.

I think unless you have a farming background it can be difficult to understand some of the dynamics that can come into play.

Money is often king and just because your parents have plenty of money and assets, does not automatically mean you will.

My lovely friend and colleague from years ago came from a wealthy farming background.
500 acres of good land and dairy.
Her brother was the golden child.

Her parents were so tight and always had been, every penny reinvested into the home farm.

She was a newly qualified accountant and her brother and only sibling, was given the farm, as expected.

Her parents built a bungalow near the farmhouse and retired, handing on the farm.

Her tight brother deeply upset her by wanting paying for a site, and her parents knew she was well paid so thought it wasn't unreasonable.

They couldn't see why when she had a well paid job, as did her partner, why she thought they would gift her a half acre site out of 500 acres.
Unbelievable.

It had always been expected, even by her, that she would be gifted a site and settle near her parents and do the farm accounts etc.

Without further discussion she bought a lovely home with her fiancée (who was a townie) in the suburbs, 30 minutes from the family home in the following 12 months.

Her family were stunned and upset at her selfishness and unreasonableness in not discussing her decision to move away.

They couldn't quite believe it.

She has happily lived with her family there, with no further involvement with the farm, and certainly with not a fraction of the involvement with her parents, that she would have had, if she had been given a site nearby.

She has always worked and had the only grandchildren, that are now real "townies".

Her brother's wife was unable to have children and lives a very active life ourside the home.

Her brother is paying for home help for his parents as his wife certainly isn't doing it.
He also paid for someone to work in their home and cook the lunchtime meal that his workers expect every day at 1pm, to be on the table.
His wife wasn't interested in that job either.

Her parents bitterly regret their inital meanness towards my colleague, and conveniently blamed golden boy for HIS meanness, but the truth is they supported him at the time.

They have lost out on so much and several times in the subsequent years they have offered financial support for her to return to the area.

Her brother subsequently did offer a site because of his parents upset, but friend had zero interest.

She loves suburbia and her short commute and was never interested in returning.
She feels it all worked out best for her in the end.

This is not an unusual story.

I know of several friends who were gifted sites from their parents, BEFORE the farm was handed over, so nothing was left to chance, and also to most likely ensure their other children remain in the area with their future family's.

I think 23 years of living on top of your bossy inlaws, even sharing a garden sounds like hell on earth.

@AllNightDiner
It's a shame never to be able to go away because of all the pony competitions, and doesn't seem like a very balanced childhood. I get that it's important to your kids, but they weren't born with a desperate need to compete in gymkhanas or whatever to the exclusion of all else, so it does make me wonder whose happiness and wellbeing that (to an outsider, quite punishing) schedule is really all in aid of. Yes I agree, but its now their identity really. I do try to get family breaks away, city breaks etc but because there are ponies that need putting out info fields etc its impossible. When the kids were very small there were no ponies and we did holidays then. Now though thats not really possible unless for short period. I have suggested a short break to see freiends in Switzerland in summer plus a short break after Christmas to give a focuis on outside life but thats maybe not going to happen mainly because there will be the 'who will organise the ponies' and also because I will probably have to do the logistics/ planning bit. See why walking on my own is attractive? That said every single person in pony club is like this - obsessional about ponies/ riding/ being at home.

I also think that it's part of parenting/adulting 101 to ensure some balance, even if your kids were potentially Olympic riders (and I presume they're not), i.e. some weekends spent doing other things, making sure there are friendships with kids other than riding friends, and yes, holidays. I'm not sure it's a good life lesson to grow up thinking that you can't ever have downtime because what about xyz.
For sure, I lived in a lot of cities and enjoyed a diverse career and lots of interesting people and so I guess I 'lived' a lot. So I see things like art galleries, music events, food festivals etc asre really good chill out experiences. So what I try to do is short day trips slotted in as I can - that might be a local food festival or a sea swim or something else non horsey. I managed a French three day break to a city last year that had a big equestrian event on also so they got their bit and I got the city bit with them - that was good.

The other thing that keeps popping up, OP, is mention of your wife's former partner, who I'm assuming died suddenly/unexpectedly/too young. It sounds as though you and she got together not that long afterwards, and I'm wondering if that has any bearing on any of your current problems. Was she still grieving? Any chance she might have rebounded into your marriage and later regretted it? Have you felt you were expected to slot into his place or be the husband he 'would have' been?

Yes, my wifes former partner was loved by everyone, he died in a car crash that my wife survived. I came alng a year or two later and of course everyone thought I was the devil incarnate. At the time I was heading into counselling and finding out about myself and trauma and so I thought I was a piece of shit too. But after a few years I figured out who I was and was not and just ignored the stuff about formner partner. I said then she should have gone for counselling to address this and the loss of her brother - I pointed out it was complex grief but she would not go. I asked my MIL how she dealt with that difficulty and her response was that she learned to 'pull down the shutter'. So I think that is how this family deals with this stuff. I'm wildly different in the other extreme - I like to fully pull apart the details and of course I can see why they would have been worried by me arriving on the scene. I still remember all the hurtful stuff my MIL did to put me off the relationship, all her friends who would not accept I was the new partner etc. All water under the bridge now. We have been together 23 years but got married only 8 years ago. So I guess I have been the person quite judged coming into this and had to slot into a complex enough jigsaw and try and carve out a space. Its an interesting dynamic and actually the more I write on this thread the more comes to mind. I really think that maybe my wife does not have the skills to negotiate/ have adult discussions on some things. Quite why, I'm not sure.

I feel a lot of the detail of your family life has got away from you over a long period of years, which may be partly why it's so difficult to renegotiate things, but I'm also wondering how you let it get to that stage. Have you been afraid you were the 'substitute' and daren't assert yourself up to now?

No, I realised early on in therapy that I was my own person even with my issues - I could not replace who was gone. I don't think I'm the subsitute - I think I am who I am - maybe some of that is unpalatable and thats fine. I realised that I brought good stuff to our relationship - I think my PIL maybe wishfully think about the partner who passed and how I'm not like him etc. That said if one of my kids had been through that and a new person arrived in and helped them to build a new life (albeit with difficulty sometimes) I think I'd be pretty appreciative and supportive. They are really just low key and not expressive or appreciative. Sometimes PIL friends come over and remark on the great job I have done on the garden or the amount of work I put into the house and PIL just shrug it off. Its like they cannot say ' well done, we didnt think you were great at the beginning but you have stayed the course' . As I grow older I care less about validation and see that as their stuff and not mine.

@billy1966 This story is not unusual, I hear of that happening a lot. Farming and dividing assets it fraught with family discord.

I suppose there are uncomfortable conversations needed about the future.

Without knowing inheritances I suppose the PIL jist see you as a threat to breaking the line of keeping the farm and land in the family.

If you were to divorce for example, your payoff could threaten an already untenable and tight financial situation.
And the farm when her parents die, who will run this, how will it be run till it passes onto children.

Do your children have an intrest in keeping the farm and land.

It does sound as though you have had enough of country life and the sacrifices that go with it.

I'm not sure how you (one) can maintain a relationship with a person who doesn't have any insight into themself or any desire to deal with their baggage. I expect it's very common but it seems totally alien to me, and a bit pointless. You sound like chalk and cheese in that respect too.

I think I may be out of ideas now and will shut up. A relief to all, I'm sure.

I suppose there are uncomfortable conversations needed about the future.
Without knowing inheritances I suppose the PIL jist see you as a threat to breaking the line of keeping the farm and land in the family.
Have told them I am not interested in farming, take no part in it and for a long time refused to take part in inheritance discussions as I don't want it. I took part in the last set because their advisor advised that I should because I will be responsible for my kids money to them. If my PIL said they wanted me to sign something to say I would not take farm/ assets etc I'd sign it right now just to get out of this. Advisor was quite taken aback I'm not clamouring for money or house.

If you were to divorce for example, your payoff could threaten an already untenable and tight financial situation. No the only rights I would have would be 50% of the house which is mortgaged.

And the farm when her parents die, who will run this, how will it be run till it passes onto children. Lord knows thats the key question eh! Who knows! They want to keep farming, they dont want to spend too much on upkeep, they want the kids to get the farm, they wont hire someone, blah blah blah. None of it doable really. If they want to keep hacking away at it then let them at it. The day will come, with out plannig where I will turn to my wife and say 'So whats the plan now?'

Do your children have an intrest in keeping the farm and land.
I'm not allowing my kids to be held to some family ransom because of the familial or cultural expectation of them having to do the farm. Its an asset, it should be sold if they dont want it and they can do what they want with the money.

It does sound as though you have had enough of country life and the sacrifices that go with it. No, I like the country, but with better discussion and meeting of everyones needs it could be a pleasant and uncomplicated existence.

Thank you for staying the course! (and for your advice)

Passing on a delapidated farm shows poor judgment.

It hugely depreciates the asset.

Your children could very likely get the placed valued and sell it on or lease the land.

Pennywise Poundfoolish

I do have sympathy for you and I see a few of these dynamics reflected in my own partnership. I would be the one that 'doesn't notice' mess, DH would probably say he is the person that 'cracks first'. I will really try not to project too much and to be me, me, me, but here are a few things going on in my head when it comes to an unbalanced relationship - both in terms of responsibility/ priorities and money, and some starting lines for other ways of looking at things.

As you've said, the power balance seems to be weighted towards your wife's family. You are on their turf which makes things, even, like getting a cleaner, slightly difficult due to the distances etc. Does it make it difficult to get out and pursue your own interests, see friends etc, as it sounds like these would also take quite some effort or time - this goes for all of you?

Therefore, your DCs' free time revolves around the ponies, which presumably are kept on the grounds and tie you down to them in terms of holiday etc.

The farm is a source of work, whether anyone there is willing to take it on, or 'on top of' it, but you both have jobs and you, in particular, are not invested in inheritance, its succession plans, or whatever. Much as you are really proud of the care you have lavished on the garden, I wonder whether that could be making you in laws wonder why you are happy to devote your energy to that, yet not to the more lucrative parts of the farm work.

Compared to my own situation, I and DH have jobs; he is a very senior manager and his earnings vastly outstrip mine, more than 10 times. He has made all financial decisions and his situation is comfortable - I don't feel good about this but I don't feel regularly included or credited with any family power either. In terms of financial decisions, I feel as if I would be as relevant as a gnat. But my work and my skills matter to me, and the validation from the people I work for, (sadly), massively matters to me, because it's not the same as the dynamic with DH. Perhaps the pony work and the business massively matter to your DW and she's not giving that up for housewifery, cleaning or without a fight, because that's an almost certain path to having no choice but to be the carer for the farm and the parents.

You've made the cleaner decision, but you didn't involve her, you told her. You were annoyed that she couldn't deal with clearing the room of stuff when 'you'd done all the work' finding the cleaner but I would be really irritated if you hadn't at least tried to get me on board in terms of timing if it affected what I could do - it locks her out of that plan. You've given her a choice of possible answers in a post upthread, but actually they're all imagined by you, they are not what she might have thought so you're mind reading. It's not a good habit to get into.

@Ormally
Perhaps the pony work and the business massively matter to your DW and she's not giving that up for housewifery, cleaning or without a fight, because that's an almost certain path to having no choice but to be the carer for the farm and the parents. Pony and business are huge for her and we both facikitate those things. I cover/ pick up kids etc as much as I can as I also WFH. Ponies I fully support despite their impact on family time as my kids love it and theere is no point in me insisting on other family activities to suit me when they absolutely adore competing. I'm not asking her to give up either or be a housewife - we cook on alternate days, split pick up's, share costs etc.

You've made the cleaner decision, but you didn't involve her, you told her. You were annoyed that she couldn't deal with clearing the room of stuff when 'you'd done all the work' finding the cleaner but I would be really irritated if you hadn't at least tried to get me on board in terms of timing if it affected what I could do - it locks her out of that plan. You've given her a choice of possible answers in a post upthread, but actually they're all imagined by you, they are not what she might have thought so you're mind reading. It's not a good habit to get into.

The cleaner discussion has happened several times, in fact we even saved money for it starting in December last year as we both agreed neither of us could do it all. I don't mind if she cleans on a weekly basis or not - she just needs to tell me she will or wont and not say she will and then dont as has been the case. If you cannot commit just say then your position is clear. So its simple in my mind ' Do you want to clean? - if not then we try to work together to keep the house as neat and clutter free as we can so the cleaner can do their job. I'm not insisting she clean. If she wont state her preference (even after thinking about it) then I go ahead and do it myself or with a cleaner.

This is a complex situation, with competing familial, social, cultural and financial factors.

I was born into a farming family, married into another, have experience of being a junior in-law and now am a mother-in-law, with adult children away from the farming business.

There are many unanswered questions posed by your various posts. However, my reading is that:
you and your wife are fundamentally incompatible;
the wider family set up is toxic;
your immediate family is possibly living beyond your means (large house with mortgage, heavily into horses, ‘average’ wage x 2 doesn’t stack up.)

Honestly, think you all might be better if you and your wife can work towards a negotiated separation.

Good luck.

Your wife is showing who she is . And you want her change ..

You live on farm with kids that have horses and you can't drive a horsebox .

I think as other have it time to go.

Eh OK.
Is change not allowed on both sides?
Why should I drive a horsebox? Not my horses.
My wife cant drive my lawnmower. Not her lawn.
Simple enough really. But thanks for your er, insightful post.

Your last post is telling.
Your children’s lives are focused round horses.
You are v invested in your garden.
Does not seem much overlap or willingness to compromise.

I’m not unsympathetic to your dilemma. I lived 200 yds from my p-i-l for more than 30 years, it’s challenging and there is absolutely NO WAY our marriage would have survived what you describe, no boundaries, endless b*** family suppers, no adult discussion about estate planning.
From your posts it seems as though your position is untenable.

30 years!
Only 7 to go!

OP I've come back to this thread to see other responses. One thing that has struck me is how very insular your wife's life seems - main interests ponies and your kids riding competitively, plus living with family on doorstep. Yes there will be horsey friends no doubt but it's all the same sort of thing.

Nothing wrong with that in itself but you come across as much more outgoing and more cosmopolitan with a wider range of interests. Fundamentally I'm not sure you and your DW have much in common now. You seem very unfulfilled and the life you have in many ways doesn't seem to be the life you want. I'm not sure your DW has the same attitudes, expectations, hopes as you and these are the glue that holds relationships together over time. I don't think this is really about cleaning, it's about more than this

You can't make anyone change.
You can change your reactions.
She is not going to change.

So you are going have to .

You want nothing to do with the farm or horses.

So it time for you move out and onwards with your life .

Stop wasting your time and energy and stuff you can't change.

And move out .

Yes, she is very introverted and happy with a smaller circle of interest. Tell you what though - she is content and for all the difficulty I have gone through on this thread thats probably the thing thats most attractive - she is comfortable in her own skin. Maybe because she has not gone deep into 'whats what' she can be like this.

I'm much more eclectic and outgoing but at the same time I like my own time and quiet time so I guess thats the piece home life delivers.

If we got more balance in terms of activities and both learned to communicate better then I think things would be better.

Cleaning is a whole other thing which hopefully we can resolve simply with a cleaner and kids stepping up to tidying a bit more.

So I ask myself ' What would life look like outside of this relationship and what would it deliver to me?' No real answer there I'm afraid, yet. I think Id like to explore this with a good therapist.

On a better note the cleaner came yesterday and we have a plan for her to tackle the house in a phased basis. She is happy to do that and seems really nice so thats great. Upstairs partly done yestrday and it made me feel we were getting somewhere. I was in a friends house yesterday and was struck by how easy it would be to manage & clean and how much less pressure that would be.

I wish you well OP. I hope you can find some resolution and way to sort things out that meets everyone's needs, including your own.

Interesting thread OP and a lot of the social/psychological issues are far above my pay grade.

I do recommend getting robot hoovers and mops if you can afford it - give the kids bonus pocket money every week that they successfully pick stuff up off the floor (and don't be afraid to withhold!). So much easier just chucking a heavy frisbee in a room and letting it crack on than buggering about with the vacuum cleaner yourself!

Could you and your wife sit down together with a drink and a cake every day - in private, away from everyone else - for 10 minutes, to jointly agree stuff and monitor progress? If you have that framework and can be patient yourself and look for solutions rather than blame, it could help things keep moving and avoid stuff getting to a head. Doesn't have to be sat down, going for a walk might work too.
It sounds like your wife might balk at this too unless approached very carefully - but it's what a neighbour (with 4 kids!) swore by, to keep things on track.

Why should I drive a horsebox? Not my horses.

They are your children's horses, right? You not being able to drive the horsebox means you cannot share in the responsibility of taking them to or from their competitions. It means all of that work load for this area of your lives falls on your wife.

Has this every been discussed?

Why should I drive a horsebox? Not my horses. ... to be kind and helpful? - just a thought.

‘Why should I drive a horsebox? Not my horses’

OP - I think if you add up the time you spend cleaning and the time your W spent driving your kids&horses to competition - i think it will even out.

You came here seeking support. And you have achieved it by paining your W in a certain light and making people feel sorry for you for being forced to live in a house next to your in-laws.

But the more of your posts I read - the more you start looking to me like at least a part of the problem.
You have been in your W’s family for more then 20 years. Yet you keep talking about yourself as an outsider. You resent them for the early days when they didn’t quite accept you. But that was years ago. Surely since then they have. But you do seem standoffish.
You describe Xmas - as miserable time. While I am sure if we asked your kids/W/inlaws - they‘ll be talking about annual family Xmas as their nice and valued tradition. Your perspective on things is very self-entered, and I wonder if you even realise it.

I can only imagine how hard it is to be living with a grumpy H who isn’t happy with their nice house, nature around, happy well cared for kids. Ans yes - with knowing that financially things will be OK as there will be inheritance. These days when people are worried about heating houses - it feels so ungrateful to turn your nose up to that.
Your poor W has to walk a tight rope and balance really hard to keep you and her parents happy. And I am sure she feels that nothing she does is good enough - because you are continuously unhappy.

Anyway. I don’t know where the answer is. It’s your right to want what you want. And it maybe that you do need to build your own life somewhere else.

Glad you got that off your chest?
Stand offish
Self centred
Miserable
Grumpy
Ungrateful
Continiously unhappy
Anything else for balance?