Husband wanting to take kids on family holiday alone

[Thatgirlcat]

Hi guys,

myself and my husband are currently going through a separation. Previous to this we had booked a family holiday to the Philippines for 1 month in July this year. My husband hasn’t been home in 5 years and his family have never met our 2 children. We have split up since booking the holiday, but currently still live together, as we are waiting to sell our house. We both agreed that we would still take the kids on holiday together before the house sells and we divorce.

Recently my husband told me that I’m not coming with them, and that he will be “taking his children on holiday without me, as he doesn’t want me there around his family”. I’m devastated, as I really want to go and see me kids enjoy the holiday. I will never be able to take them away like this with all 4 of us again, so it’s really important for me. I don’t want to stop them from seeing their family, but at the same time I can’t sit back while they leave. I just don’t know what to do. Has anyone got any advice?

He cannot give me a reason as to why he doesn’t want me there, he just said I don’t want you around my kids and my family.

I wouldn't sign a consent letter since he's calling them 'his' kids when they are yours as well. It's not a good sign.

Do NOT agree to this.

Absolutely no way. Be firm.

Also, cancel the holiday and spend the money on your divorce.

The biggest alarm bell in my head (admit not read full thread as this was too much of a red flag) is the part in your quote here that he doesn't want you around HIS children - you are their Mum! They are YOUR children together, not just his. To me this just seems like he plans to not have you in their life at all .

I was going to say tell him you're going on this holiday as a family or not at all.

Now I'm thinking you should just cancel it altogether!

This. I’d be frantic with worry.

Do not sign anything. You have zero control over whether or not he brings the children back. I would send a letter stating you don’t consent to him going for X reasons and stating what you’d like the ongoing childcare arrangements to be. He probably won’t agree, in which case I would recommend asking him to attend mediation - not to save the marriage but because then you can show you’ve tried to play ball. You can then apply for a court order yourself without solicitor fees - it’s around £200 - and make it clear you don’t believe he won’t return the children.

My DH and I recently applied for a passport for our baby. My DH used his passport details because he's British but there was no question about my consent for the application, so perhaps hide your passport too in case he tries to use it.

I fully agree with others that he may well intend on kidnapping the children and leaving them with his family. I also can't believe he would even think that such young children could cope for that long without their mother in a strange environment with people who are strangers to them. Do his family speak English, do your children speak their father's native language?

I'm a foreign national and travelled alone with DD to visit my family when she was a baby. She's got dual nationality and the same passport as me. DH had signed a consent form for the airline but no one actually asked to see it. The only time I was asked about DDs father's consent to travel was when we were on our way back to the UK, but i wasn't asked to show any proof. No border checks are in place when leaving the UK so it's up to airlines to police minors travelling with parents for consent, which I wouldn't trust them to do.

As your ex is clearly becoming abusive now and threatening you with court etc, make sure you document everything for evidence, screenshot messages, keep a written diary of threats he makes against you, share your concerns with friends etc.

Check with different solicitors for a consultation, sometimes you can have an initial consultation for an hour for £50-100, which might be enough to give you a better idea of steps you can take now.

You say you would still be willing to go with him.

Are you sure that you would be able to bring the children back? He (and his family) could easily prevent you doing so if they wished.

Remember that his family might well feel that there is a guilty party in your marriage breakdown... and that it is probably not their well-brought up boy. (It will be the outsider!) They might think they were doing the best for the children by keeping them.

What could you do if they simply refused to let you have them for the return trip?

Sorry but absolutely no way would I allow my 2 and 4 year old to be without me for a month in a different continent. I wouldn’t care what he told anyone. You didn’t stop them going, you just want to be there too. If he puts his foot down then the decision is on him. He either respects the fact that you’re their mother and they need you or they don’t go. If they were 12 and 14 it would be different.

This last message from Crumbleburntbits is exactly what I've come here to say.

You need to get in touch with the Passport Office to tell them you have the passports safe and that if he tells them otherwise he's lying.

Yes, she will have an opportunity to object to his application for an order and she will be able to say why she doesn't want this to happen. But the reasons advanced on this thread are unlikely to persuade the court not to grant the order.

What reasons would prevent him from taking them?

It sounds as though he doesn't intend to bring them back. So don't let them go at all, whether you go with them or not.

No, there's no way that I would be allowing this. Apart from the risk of him never bringing them back, a month is way too long for them to be separated from you in a different country, effectively with strangers.

Even my 10 year old would struggle to be apart from me for that long.

You were kind in supporting the plan of coming along so that the holiday could go ahead. Your husband has ruined that and shown his true colours. I wouldn't allow the children to go at all.

Please talk to citizens advice bureau, and to the passport office, as previously advised.

You can apply for a prohibed steps order yourself without a solicitor, the cost is around £200 to submit the application to the court. Represent yourself.

Definitely follow this advice. I've represented myself. It's easy.

Please don’t take the risk of allowing your dcs’ to leave the country with him. I agree with others that he may not bring them back and you will then have to fight for them to be returned, in a country where you are not familiar with the language and where you would be a foreign National and he is a citizen of that country. It is just too much of a risk. I disagree with your compromises, I wouldn’t let them go for a week, with you there, never mind a month without you. Do not let them set foot in the Philippines, as he will then have the upper hand.

The only compromise I would allow, is for his family to come over to the U.K. to see them. It is a shame that they have not yet met your DCs, so it would be nice to let them meet. If they can’t afford the cost of coming over to this country, let him use the money that you both had set aside for your travel to help facilitate their visit.

If he was taking the children to a non-Hague convention country and the OP persuaded the court that there was a genuine risk that the children would not return to the UK, for example.

Suggest you read the full thread! Especially the bits where the OP does indeed want a divorce and has also suggested your compromise about the holiday, only to have it turned down flat.

The OP doesn't need to apply for a PSO. Her husband is already applying for an order. All she needs to do is oppose that application, although I doubt she will succeed.

OP, please call the police if he continues to shout at you and be aggressive towards you. This is not acceptable behaviour.

Just to say, it's a prohibited steps order, some details here:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/946762/c100-eng.pdf
Also, this might help:
www.gov.uk/looking-after-children-divorce/types-of-court-order

I also agree, there is no way you can let him take them away on his own, and nor should you compromise, it looks as if he is planning to either stay in his home country with them or leave them there with his family and come back to the UK on his own. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't risk it.

he just said I don’t want you around my kids

And you still believe he'd bring them back??

I am surprised to see the lawyers on here say that it's as simple as 'the Philippines has signed the Hague Convention' when there is a big difference between signing and implementation

This the current guidance on the website of the US embassy in Manila:

While the Philippines acceded to the Hague Abduction Convention in 2016, the treaty’s provisions have not yet been implemented by the Philippine government.
As a result, parents whose children have been abducted from the United States to the Philippines or wrongfully retained in the Philippines are unable to invoke the Convention to pursue their children’s return or to seek access to them.

Can any lawyers here clarify whether the situation is any different for the UK? If not, I don't see how you can be so blithe about the OP being able to use Hague to get her children back.