Husband wanting to take kids on family holiday alone

[Thatgirlcat]

Hi guys,

myself and my husband are currently going through a separation. Previous to this we had booked a family holiday to the Philippines for 1 month in July this year. My husband hasn’t been home in 5 years and his family have never met our 2 children. We have split up since booking the holiday, but currently still live together, as we are waiting to sell our house. We both agreed that we would still take the kids on holiday together before the house sells and we divorce.

Recently my husband told me that I’m not coming with them, and that he will be “taking his children on holiday without me, as he doesn’t want me there around his family”. I’m devastated, as I really want to go and see me kids enjoy the holiday. I will never be able to take them away like this with all 4 of us again, so it’s really important for me. I don’t want to stop them from seeing their family, but at the same time I can’t sit back while they leave. I just don’t know what to do. Has anyone got any advice?

You are perfectly entitled to feel that your children are too young to be away from you for so long, even if you weren’t getting divorced!
There are all sorts of red flags here around letting them go with their father to his home country when you don’t trust him. Unfortunately there are too many instances of kids being kidnapped in this way and the other parent being unable to do anything about it from the other side of the world in a country that is rife with corruption.

You are not being unreasonable in your choices to him, hold firm. Given his behaviour, make sure you don’t sign anything granting permission to take children abroad and pay a visit to the Citizens Advice Bureau. I would be wanting to inform the authorities that he does not have permission to take the kids away, hopefully they can advise on how to do that.

You work in a hospital, post them in a confidential waste bin.

OP ignore the 'lawyers' on this thread. People on the internet can say anything. It doesn't mean it's true and it isn't helpful to you. Some of them may be genuine but it's always worth remembering that Fathers 4 Justice types regularly pop up to give deliberately bad advice too.

Contact Woman's Aid. You say he's been aggressive and shouting. They should be able to provide some advice and can direct you to local services.

You may have missed that other posters directed you to Rights Of Women - they have advice lines that can also help you. Rights of Women Advice Lines

You do know at the age they are the children will not remember the trip anyway in a couple of years? Just forget the holiday and ignore any lost money. It has little value compared with losing your children. Take all the advice and concentrate on the next ten years. Seriously, none of your colleagues will be that interested in you getting divorced. It happens to half of marriages.

Do not under any circumstances allow him to take them to the Philippines without you. As others have said, make sure that you have possession of your children’s passports and birth certificates. Purely anecdotal but I have several Filipino female friends (married to Brits) who swore that they would never marry a Filipino man because of the way they treat women.

I truly hope that your husband's recent behaviour will cut through the expectations you have of a amicable divorce.

You only need to look at all the threads on here to see that once you separate, the gloves come off.

This is not about racism, this is about how men behave when they're no longer controlling their own lives, and those of their wives.

You have initiated the divorce (I may have missed it, but why are you wanting a divorce?), and he has shown you who he is. Laughing at you? Threatening you? Bullying you? THIS is your new reality, and the quicker you start accepting this is your adversary, the better.

Honestly, I'd cancel the tickets completely, and even if you can't get cash back, get a credit. Use it towards 3-4 shorter trips for the 3 of you over the next 2 years.

Oh, and use the spending money on a lawyer.

You've woken up in a different world, this is not the person you married. Work from there.

They are far too small to be going so far away and for so long so you go also as he cannot stop you and book a room for you and the children. Do not let him take them there alone as you may have a struggle on your hands to get them back as he will be pressurized from his family to stay there with them. No way would I let my small children go away at that age as they are so young. Do not let him bully you into this and stick to your guns.

How about saying let’s cancel the holiday and with any money we get back we can pay for flights for his family to fly out to you to see the kids? That way you can’t be the bad guy and the kids stay in the same country as you??

@Thatgirlcat a lot of advice here, I second that the UK GOV will do zilch to help you if he decides to keep them. And please consider this. His family has never seen them, they will all be strangers. He is taking a 2yo away from his mum for a month to be with strangers, in a strange new country. Away from everything they know from weather to food. There is no way in hell I'd agree to anyone, parent or otherwise, to take my 2yo away from me for a month. That is insane!

His family may or may not have influence on him. What if they say "oh just leave the kids with us they will be fine we can take care of them you go back just send money". How sure are you this cannot happen?

I am sorry I have read too many stories like this and it never ends well. As a parent I'd do anything and everything for them never to leave this country with him. Just no. The mental harm this will do to them, to you, and the danger of never seeing them again is not worth any beach photos.

I wouldn't let anyone take such young children o another country without me, especially for that long and if you're going through an acrimonious divorce and he's from another country then definitely not.

It may even be that the husband himself is thinking "family holiday," but that his extended family are the ones who've come up with the idea and are planning on talking him into leaving the kids in the Philippines once they are there.

In such case, the family members just keep making excuses to "spin out" the holiday and stretch it longer and longer, and then as soon as the other parent starts getting the wind up and saying "Send my kids back NOW," the family just breaks off contact and goes silent. Knowing full well that the other parent can basically do fuck all. A lot of countries, esp in Asia, either are not party to the Hague Convention or are signed up BUT DO NOT ENFORCE IT.

I'm in an international marriage myself and have known of several abduction cases among all the many international marriages that I know of here. Two of them basically happened like that--where the idea seems to have come from the grandparents etc. rather than the dad.

Please please get the children away and alert the border authorities and the passport agencies about this situation.

My sisters partner took her son. The police said they couldn't do anything because he had parental rights. She only got him back because he left the little boy in care of a stranger and the police could remove as not in his care. Glad the passports have gone but I wouldn't see the threat as over

@Thatgirlcat You're focussing on the wrong things here (e.g. travel insurance being cheaper in the Philippines).

I imagine it's partly due to shock and disbelief that your children's father or his family might decide to keep the children there. But please wake up and engage with this properly. @Pookymalooky makes a really good suggestion. You can't possibly allow your young children to go abroad for a month to stay with strangers. I can't believe you would even consider it. How are the children going to feel in an alien place with alien people when they're used to being with their mum at home? The one thing that matters to small children is familiarity and routine. That doesn't mean you can't travel with them - but you are the biggest part of what makes them feel safe and secure. You can't seriously be thinking of taking that away from them.

It isn't racist to point out things that are culturally perfect normal in the Philippines ( and other countries) eg children left with relatives for extended periods of times while parents work abroad for years at a time. In the Uk this seems unimaginable.

I apologise if someone has already posted this but there are steps you can take to stop him taking the kids out of the country on travel documents he has applied for himself:

www.thefamilylawco.co.uk/information/im-worried-my-partner-wants-to-take-my-child-abroad-permanently-without-my-permission-what-can-i-do/

Given his current attitude I agree with others here that I'd be really worried as to his intent. Give the kids' passports to a friend and take steps to prevent him getting a duplicate passport for them.

This is Great advice OP and something you should consider- as he is being aggressive they may be able to help you with Legal aid for a solicitor too.

Those saying he is kidnapping them as he said his children in a conversation seem to ignore the fact that OP also called them her children not their children.

Relationships ending can be messy, both parents in this are likely not handling it in the most calm manner as both will feel stressed and angry. She doesn't want children to go without her, he is desperate to see family after so long and for them to meet his children. both views are valid but also at loggerheads with each other. Its natural for him to not want to have you with him on this trip. I cant imaging many jilted partners could cope with the jilting partner coming along on a trip.
However, compromise and negotiation by both now is best for long term co parenting.

Worth having a free 30 minute appt with a solicitor to find out legal side and option but solicitors are expensive and if can be avoided is preferable. I am not surprised he has applied to court for permission as he likely feels anxious about if you will stop trip. If you can not agree court will decide for you. now they could decide that children don't go at all or that children go for the month with dad. or any variation in between. They may say you go and stay in hotel and children spend some time with you in hotel and sometime with dad and family. They will not say you can go and spend the whole month with children, their dad and family.
It is always a risk going to court as while they may go more the way you want it could go against your wishes.

One thing that will be considered is ages. And how their care is divided so a parent who works 6 long days a week and so only really spends 1 day a week with children will result in a different decision to a parent who is hands on most days. you haven't specified how care is divided between you and dad.

He told me the only reason he doesn’t want me there is because he wants time away from me. I totally understand this, however we have children together so in reality he can’t ever really get away from me.

Coparenting and spending a month together are very different.

I understand you don't want them to go without you and I agree ...I wouldn't have my kids going to a foreign country, where I've known one parent keep the kids and not return to the UK.

All that said, it's reasonable that he doesn't want to be in your company for that duration now that the marriage is over.

www.zicolaw.com/resources/alerts/philippine-sc-issues-guidelines-on-hague-service-convention/
But please do not think “ there’s nothing for him there so he wouldn’t stay” or “ he wouldn’t keep the children there” I lived in the ME for 2 years and in that short time knew of several mothers who’d been separated from their children, kept there by their fathers. One woman had been battling through the courts for years to get her daughter back. All these women thought they were married to reasonable men, none of them foresaw kidnappings.

There are a number of Hague Conventions. The one referred to in this post is relating to service of court documents. The relevant HC for child abduction is actually called the Convention of 25 October 1980 on the Civil Aspects of International Child Abduction.

UK government advice on this can be found here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/international-parental-child-abduction/international-parental-child-abduction
and the list of signatories is here
https://www.hcch.net/en/instruments/conventions/status-table/?cid=24

There’s not a chance in hell I would agree.
Even if you did go, he could just leave you in the hotel and take the kids though, you’d be very vulnerable there assuming you don’t drive there/speak the language/know the area etc.
I would think that the children are far too little to be away for a month.
He might tell people that you stopped his family seeing the children but if he was so keen why has he waited until 2 and 4 🤷‍♀️
I’d rather people thought bad of me than me have a month without my children and the worry he wouldn’t return them, being a British citizen isn’t security enough that they’ll be returned, he could apply for them to become dual nationals whilst he’s out there.

Could his parents come to your country?

If he and his family decide not to return the children its going to cost you a lot of money to go thru the court system to fight this. Personally I think the children are too young to be away from you and their familiar surroundings.

ZOMBIE 🧟‍♀️