Husband wanting to take kids on family holiday alone

[Thatgirlcat]

Hi guys,

myself and my husband are currently going through a separation. Previous to this we had booked a family holiday to the Philippines for 1 month in July this year. My husband hasn’t been home in 5 years and his family have never met our 2 children. We have split up since booking the holiday, but currently still live together, as we are waiting to sell our house. We both agreed that we would still take the kids on holiday together before the house sells and we divorce.

Recently my husband told me that I’m not coming with them, and that he will be “taking his children on holiday without me, as he doesn’t want me there around his family”. I’m devastated, as I really want to go and see me kids enjoy the holiday. I will never be able to take them away like this with all 4 of us again, so it’s really important for me. I don’t want to stop them from seeing their family, but at the same time I can’t sit back while they leave. I just don’t know what to do. Has anyone got any advice?

In your first post you had said it was very important to you and that you wanted to be there and watch your kids on the holiday and have the four of you together because it would be the last time. I can see why he is having a hard time with you feeling that way. If your thinking has shifted and your focus is now less on the four of you being together on a holiday and more about you being able to be there for your kids and see them while you do your own thing, it might be a way to restart the discussion.

@Thatgirlcat call you local social services department for advice about getting you and your children from there safely- explain he is becoming aggressive and trying to get you to sign for the children to go away to his home country for a month and you fear he won't return them.

Advise your scared about his reactions get worse and your fear what he will do next.
They will help you get from there.

I would be very confident that if your husband took your children (who I assume are mixed race) the UK government would not give a shit and you would get zero help from them.

Unless you are pretty and media savvy.

I would prepare to to you court to prevent this, do you have legal assistance through your job or house insurance?

I mean took your children then didn't return to the Uk with them.

OP, How are you going to tell your kids oh sorry mummy’s not coming?

That's the reality of a separation. You wanted to separate, he agreed, and at some point soon you will have to tell your children and your children will have to get used to saying goodbye to you when they go to their dad's.

This. You don’t know this man at all. He is not the person you married. For all intents and purposes, the Philippines do not have to abide by The Hague Convention for British citizens as there has been no individual signatures between the countries.

In the case of abduction, your 2 yo and even your 4 yo would quickly be assimilated into the population and even if you did fight for custody, the Filipino courts could decide the children’s home is now over there as they’re accustomed to the country etc. And don’t forget, he could even hide the children and either not return to the U.K. or return without them. There’d be little you could do.

You sound very gleeful about this.

Op report passports lost don't tell him for as long as possible then he won't be able to get new passports for the trip with the delays

Do you know he has actually submitted a court application? Remember it will likely cost him as much to take this through the courts if he is using representation. He could be trying to scare you.

You say you have all the passports and travel money. They can make you hand over passports with a court order but I'm not sure they could order you to hand over money. Does he have the money to fund persuing the court order and the entire cost of the months spending by himself?

Either way I would think a judge wouldn't order your 2 year old to be separated from you for a month. Also as everyone said there is the risk of him not returning them. The judge could order he is allowed to go but not for as long (can he afford changing dates etc?). But again I would argue against because then he can just refuse to come back once out there and nothing you do will get them back sooner!

OP I have not read the whole thread but if it was me I would never sign consent papers, based on their age alone (and regardless of whether or not he might have an intention not to bring them back). A month is too long for a toddler to be separated from its primary caregiver.

I also noted you said you spoke to a solicitor and cannot afford the fees being quoted. Perhaps get in touch with Citizens Advice?

And there are charities who might be able to help - quick google got me to this one: childlawadvice.org.uk/

Not for an entire month at a time at 2 and 4 years of age!! What an absurd and unfeeling comment!
OP, do not let this happen. Call the non-emergency police number and ask for advice, explain the shouting and intimidating behaviour, and the "holiday" looming.
BTW - can you not take them away for a visit and stay at a friend's place 2-3 days before the holiday? Just a thought.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · Today 18:14
I don’t really think he’s trying to kidnap them,

He has already surprised you with a lot of his behaviour. If you read back over your posts on this thread you'll notice yourself - he's done a lot of things you thought he wouldn't do. Maybe you don't know him as well as you think.

It's really, really worrying that he's talking about lawyers and trying to bully you into signing documents. A reasonable person would respect your reluctance to be separated from your very young children for a month. If he's resorting to the law it suggests there's much more at stake for him than a holiday - who the hell escalates a family holiday into a legal battle?

Is there any chance that when you both planned and booked this trip he had the separation in mind all along?

What @TastefulRainbowUnicorn has posted.
I think this is very wise.

Maybe have a look here, OP?

rightsofwomen.org.uk/further-help/

There is no way I would agree to this, particular given the ages of the DC, and the Hague convention issues.

OP, who actually booked this holiday/family trip? Who has control over it with regards to cancelling it/elements of it? If it's you, just cancel the DC flights along with yours. I would not go with them - the whole thing sounds way too risky.

@Thatgirlcat It is not weird or odd that you want to travel with your recently separated partner for your children’s best interest.

It is perfectly reasonable and good parenting.

Co parenting involves separated parents remaining on good terms and being able to still do some things together as a family for the benefit of their children.

Not all separated families can do this, but plenty can and do.

It doesn’t look like your ex wants a mutually respectful co parenting relationship with you.

I’m sorry but from everything you have posted, his behaviour suggests that he isn’t trustworthy and that he is treating you as some kind of enemy ex wife, rather than the respected mother of his children.

You are being fair and reasonable, he is not.

You are prioritising your children’s needs and well-being. He is not.

Stand firm and remain strong in protecting your children.

He cannot give me a reason as to why he doesn’t want me there

Because you have separated!

Sorry OP but you’re coming across as quite spiteful and are trying to think of different excuses as to why you don’t want him taking them but it boils down to the fact you’d be happy for them to go if you went too - that doesn’t make sense.

For those saying he’s at risk of kidnapping them - firstly are very racist as I bet if you lived over there and wanted to bring them over here to visit your family no one would accuse you of trying to kidnap them.
-secondly, if he’s a kidnapping risk then he can do that with or without you in his native country and I believe that if he said you can go as a 4 you would jump at the chance.

You need to accept that this relationship is unfortunately over and there are going to be many big events like holidays, Christmas, birthdays etc where you’re not going to be spending it as a foursome.

@Onwards22 I understand that we will no longer be celebrating lots of things together and I’m fine with this. I am not spiteful, I truly want my kids to go and enjoy the Philippines and meet their family. However, it’s not like a birthday or something short and sweet. There are lots of risks there and if something happened to my children I would not be there and probably would have no idea, until it’s too late. Also it’s not like I can nip down the road if something was to happen.

And I am the one who ended the relationship, so don’t worry I am well aware it is over my friend.

take the blinkers off OP, yes you dont want people gossiping but this is more than this.

protect your children, do not let him take them out the country - if his family want to see them so badly he can pay for them to come here

however, with a divorce looming - why spend the money!? use it on a solicitor - you cannot afford not to have one!!

hide the passports, put a charge on the house so he cannot sell it from under you

he wont return the children, make no mistake about that

I don’t think you are being unreasonable and now he’s getting aggressive it would be a definite no from me.

I know when my friend's wife was going to take their son back to her home country without his permission he was able to ring some sort of customs line and lodge that there had been a dispute and his child could not go outside the country without his permission. I think it was linked to the kids passport but this was sometime ago.

@Thatgirlcat I think your niceness and concern for your children and their wider family is blinding you to some colossal red flags. Your children's father is not your friend now. If you have children, divorce is a Hell like no other, even if you can keep things reasonably amicable. Your children's father has already shown a different side to his personality. Please, please don't ignore what other people - perhaps because they are less involved - can see very clearly.

@Onwards22 no it is not racist. And yes, people bring children back to Britain for a holiday with no intention of returning them to their parent.
Most of the figures of children kidnapped in Britain are a parent taking the child away from the other, usually the resident parent.
But 2 and 4 are far too young to be away from the primary caregiver for a month. It would be traumatic for the children.

OP in a previous post you mentioned financial burden of your children getting sick in the Philippines….this already says a lot about an unfortunate lack of appreciation of risk, i.e. no travel insurance for a family of 3 or 4 for a month? If you allow the children to go, FGS get some travel insurance. If you don’t allow them to go, follow the good advice of PPs here.

I'm really not. Sorry if I came across that way.

@SizzlingCold of course I would get travel insurance, however it doesn’t cost the fees in the Philippines I believe