Husband wanting to take kids on family holiday alone

[Thatgirlcat]

Hi guys,

myself and my husband are currently going through a separation. Previous to this we had booked a family holiday to the Philippines for 1 month in July this year. My husband hasn’t been home in 5 years and his family have never met our 2 children. We have split up since booking the holiday, but currently still live together, as we are waiting to sell our house. We both agreed that we would still take the kids on holiday together before the house sells and we divorce.

Recently my husband told me that I’m not coming with them, and that he will be “taking his children on holiday without me, as he doesn’t want me there around his family”. I’m devastated, as I really want to go and see me kids enjoy the holiday. I will never be able to take them away like this with all 4 of us again, so it’s really important for me. I don’t want to stop them from seeing their family, but at the same time I can’t sit back while they leave. I just don’t know what to do. Has anyone got any advice?

You need specialist legal advice here, OP, and urgently.

Not something to skimp on, or try to get for free.

Free advice?
The best free advice is don't let him take them!

If he won't bring them back it could possibly cost you many thousands and take years to get them back.

👏👏👏 @AlternativePerspective

It would be naive not to consider the possibility. Given that the relationship has broken down, he doesn’t want her near his family and has made that plain, and he wants to take them thousands of miles away without their mum for a whole month. A decent father would allow the mum to come too, even if not actually staying in the family home.

Is there any free legal advice I can get about this? Like anything that can protect me and my kids, if say I went there with them and he dioceses to keep them there?

Free? This is something worth paying for!!!!!

Make a list of the questions you need answers to:
What happens if you all get there and he refuses you(r DC) permission to leave?
What happens if he takes them alone and refuses to bring them back?
etc etc

No one said that every foreigner is going to abduct their children @AlternativePerspective. But even without the risk of child abduction, the OP's children are tiny. I don't know any mother who would want to be parted from their 2 and 4 year old for a month (or indeed any children who would be undamaged by that).

OP I know nothing about this law firm but they offer a free initial consultation: www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk/divorce/international-divorce/

It's all well and good saying he won't do this and yes, that may be true but is it impossible that he will?

worst case scenario is he does. That when he gets there his family persuade him to stay and they will help raise the children.

It can happen.
It does happen.
Children have grown up without their mothers as a result.

Will it happen in this case ? 🤷‍♀️ Who knows.

As with everything you have to understand all possibilities and hope for the best, plan for the worst.

My hubby has taken the kids camping for a week and I don't have a problem with it. However, the way this was written sends alarm belling ringing. Why would he not want you to go and what is his reasoning for taking the kids alone?

@AlternativePerspective Ok, so what to do then? I highly doubt he would take them and never bring them back. However my biggest fear and worries are 1. They can get ill very easily there and I would worry about them going to hospital and also the financial risk, as you have to pay for healthcare there. 2. The length of time. I would be more than happy if say he had booked a holiday to Spain for example for a week or 2. But it is not Spain it’s the Philippines. The flight alone is 2 days long, even last summer my daughter got a fever from going to the park and my husband didn’t even realise. I’m not saying he isn’t capable, he’s a very good dad, just for me I would be worried and if something did happen would he even tell me?

I understand that we are separating and he doesn’t really want me there. But my kids are very young and have never been there before. I don’t want something to happen and then they are stuck there without me.

Is there any free legal advice

legal advice for free isn't easy to find

you could ask at citizens advice - but really you need to speak to your divorce solicitor abut this matter

It will be cheaper to get legal advice before the event of your dc not being returned than trying to get the dc back to the uk if he refuses to bring them home

I highly doubt he would take them and never bring them back

why do you think this? He has his family there to help look after them

Not a chance in hell he'd be taking the kids there.

Yes, you may say he has nothing to keep him in the Philippines but if he wants to take his kids to live there (and he has a Filipino passport and ILTR in England) then he can leave them with his parents, get a job there etc.

Well I agree that it would be racist to say that any foreigner taking their kids home for a visit is not going to bring them back. But we're not talking about all foreigners here, this is a specific situation with a soon to be ex, who does not have guaranteed right to stay in the UK, and a country that is still working to fully implement Hague.

If I sound alarmist it's because I'm an expat myself, who has seen all sorts of horrible situations that other expats have fallen into, and personally I just think even if the risk is very small, it is not worth taking.

Google Foreign Office advice maybe and you could book a free 30 minute appointment with a solicitors who have an immigration department.

For your own peace of mind I'd invest in a proper paid session too. There are sometimes charities who offer free legal advice though unsure if relevant here.

rightsofwomen.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Children-and-the-law-child-abduction-DIGITAL.pdf

Might be useful.

He can't stop you going and getting on that plane and staying elsewhere when he goes visits his family but you CAN stop him going without you. Its simple, he either agrees to you going and letting them have those days alone with his family or they don't go.

For goodness sake OP. Find a few hundred quid and make an appointment with a solicitor today.

Don’t you even have travel insurance booked? Not the key issue but if the kids and you, and your ex, goes, you must have travel insurance.

Try reading here www.reunite.org they have lots of info about situations like this.

It's very common in the Philippines for the grandparents to look after the grandchildren while the parents work abroad to support their family. We lived in the Middle East where there were many people doing just this. As your DH is a skilled worker, there are plenty of jobs for Philippinos in other countries. He wouldn't have to come back to the UK.

FWIW, every Philippino I've met (and I've met a lot) has been lovely. But emotions run high where children are involved, and he might be under pressure from his family for his kids to be raised in the Philippines. Of course, you will never know his true intentions, that's why you need to get legal advice.

I just spoke to him calmly about myself not being happy for him to take the kids for that long. He laughed at me and said it doesn’t matter what you want, I’ve already applied for a court order to take my kids on holiday without you.

I don’t know what to do now, I have no idea about legality around this. I want things to be amicable, it spiteful like this

I’m devastated, as I really want to go and see me kids enjoy the holiday. I will never be able to take them away like this with all 4 of us again, so it’s really important for me. I don’t want to stop them from seeing their family, but at the same time I can’t sit back while they leave. I just don’t know what to do. Has anyone got any advice?

OP, you are being terribly naive here. Forget your holiday plans. Everything you have said about himthe fact that he is shifty when you ask him why he doesn't want you to come, the fact that he is trying to "punish" you for stuffscreams red flag.

No idea whether the Phils are signed up to the Hague Convention but in any case it may not mean diddly squat. Japan is signed up to this convention, and it doesn't make any difference--they refuse to enforce gross violations. If your ex decided to keep your kids, you would probably be helpless. I am in Japan. I'm sorry to say that I know of lots of cases which had tragic endings.

Your post sounds like you have not properly processed the end of your marriage and are still trying to play happy families in your head and go through the motions of a lovely family holiday. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you need to get smart and get serious about protecting your children.

You need to keep their passports hidden (you say you already have them). Can you send them over to a friend's house? That also goes for any Filipino passports they might have.

Although I don't know the details, sometimes people who have to travel and have lost passports call the relevant authorities and beg for "emergency travel documentation"--I don't know whether the authorities would issue emergency travel documents in this situation if your ex were to try and do this, but I wonder if there is a way, in the UK, to actually notify the border control people and explain that you think your ex might try and get the kids out of the country without your permission, and give your kids' identities.

As others have pointed out, taking kids away to another country and letting extended family look after them is very possible. I have known of several cases in Japan.

Given that you are in the early stages of being separated, and that the children are too young, I'd tell him "No, I don't want you to take them so far away for a month. Let's wait until they are both school age for that long a trip. In the meantime your family can come visit them here"?

He laughed at me and said it doesn’t matter what you want, I’ve already applied for a court order to take my kids on holiday without you.

Christ almighty. OP, he sounds terrifying.
Can you send the kids on a nice little trip to grandparents or aunty and uncle or something for the moment, just to keep them safe and away from this prick, while you plan your next move?

Read that pdf I linked from Rights of Women. There's a lot of helpful information. But you need to act now.