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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Polygamy, first family and financial trouble - need some perspective here

339 replies

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:17

Right so I’m going to try and be as a clear as I can be without being massively outing.

DH is from a minority community in the UK. His father has 2 wives. MIL and SMIL. It was some nasty business how it was done, both had no idea. It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal MIL, so please no bigamy Comments. Polygamy is accepted in DHs community. There is a clear 1st and 2nd family situation. DH grew up in squalor and 2nd family grew up with the best of the best. MIL has never worked a day in her life, (she’s a very simple woman, illiterate no English) she claims she couldn’t work, she doesn’t claim or has never claimed because she woildnt ride the bus to get to English classes and job interviews etc and obviously it was during school time/ working hours so DH couldn’t accompany her. From 16 years old DH worked 3 jobs whilst in school to provide for them. he still went to university and got a degree and started working but due to financial burden was racked in debt. House repairs, bills, her glasses, dents treatment, food, new boiler, bathroom, kitchen you name it, DH paid for it. FIL gave them when DH was a child a £15k auction house, so there were A LOT of repairs needed.

he met me, we married. Prior to marriage he was upfront about his debt, because he was in a v bad place and long story short he had to beg FIL to start covering MIL expenses (to be clear it is now religious and cultural obligation to do so especially in a polygamous marriage). We worked out his finances and he’s still paying his way out of debt nearly 10 years later. I’m from another culture and not to go into it because it’s not strictly relevant here but MIL has been quite unkind to me over the years, she is better now that I have children but it’s worth a mention:

it has come out that FIL has purposely cut MIL and DH out of the will. He probably assets included it’s about 300k. DH told MIL and she said she didn’t care it’s DHs responsibility to pay for her to live, that’s why she had him to take care of her and we should sell our house to take care of her because we shouldnt have bought a house. I don’t know where she thinks our 3 kids are supposed to live. He’s her only child.

FIL has had some health scares lately and with the rising cost of everything we’re both worried about this additional financial burden. She’s paid no NI so has no state pension. She has money but won’t spend that to top up NI because she’s saving it for a religious pilgrimage. We have good jobs and we most certainly do not live beyond our means. We live in the most affordable decent area commutable distance from where we work, but also close enough to her because she had a meltdown when she found out we wanted a house. We also have 3 kids and associated childcare and expenses, a 4 bed house, one car, no pets, we do have savings but it’s for our retirement at probably 80 and for overpayments and rainy day funds. We have good jobs like I said, between 85-90 before tax, but the rises in everything are steep. Mortgage looks like it will be going up by £200 a month (no extra borrowing) childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day, we all know about energy and petrol and inflation. Our annual rises didn’t even touch the sides of how high inflation is. We are fairly comfy and definitely aren’t kitted out in designer attire but I do feel loathed to stop the children having any hobbies or sell our house to cover the extra £5/600 for pcm for MIL cost of living, or basically live from paycheque to paycheque and start the cycle of debt, which is what would happen given the rises, which will keep rising. Even selling the house would be daft because what we paid for a 4 bed would get you a 3 bed now because property prices have risen so much.

FIL is a v unkind man who has treated her and DH like dogshit for years, I do genuinely believe the best outcome would be for MIL to file for divorce and then she’d be entitled to half of his assets, even if she just got 75k, it’s something. But she won’t. She’s also not w particularly nice person in truth, a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse has been used against dh over the years.
i cannot move in with her for my mental health so that’s not an option, even if we got on like a house on fire, it’s a v small house. 2 bed, one a small double and the other a single.

what’s the utopia here? I can’t think straight, how do you work through this situation. She won’t work, won’t claim, won’t divorce him, would spend her money on a pilgrimage rather than cost of living and will have no inheritance, it’s just for DH to figure out. DH has spoken to his M and it’s like banging head against a brick wall and frankly the things she is coming out with are repugnant. Like you can’t afford to take care of me, well you should have thought of that before you bought a house you can’t afford’. It’s making us both stressed and me quite angry because I’d never put this on my kids: I’ve got no issue with helping out someone in need or even helping her out a bit but I think we might go under if we took everything on with no other income.

can anyone suggest anything?

OP posts:
Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:18

thanks for reading, appreciate it’s a long heavy one

OP posts:
Overthewine · 04/06/2022 21:19

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Overthewine · 04/06/2022 21:20

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Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:23

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Even if he actively wills his estate to other people? I wasn’t sure they’d be a legal leg to stand on

OP posts:
flashbac · 04/06/2022 21:25

Where is she getting the money to save for the pilgrimage?
You need to put your kids first.

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:27

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This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Yeah the attitude stinks, she’s got no value or appreciation of money or the cost of living because she’s just never worked. She is what you’d term as vulnerable though, no English, no education at all not even primary level, can’t read or write in her own language, took her til she came here to learn how to write her name.

what irks me is that in all of this, the only person who’s really gotten hurt and made to suffer what DH, and now that will have a trickle down effect to our kids and I guess to me too.

dh wont go no contact with her, it’s one thing to say it in theory but in practice to leave your mum destitute is another, regardless of how toxic she’s been. There’s also a huge cultural inheritance and emotional trauma that’s been drilled into him from infancy, you know sons look after their parents even though it’s always the wife that gets turned into a skivvy

OP posts:
Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:29

flashbac · 04/06/2022 21:25

Where is she getting the money to save for the pilgrimage?
You need to put your kids first.

Exactly!
they will come first, and part of that is obviously having a roof over their head. Her mentality baffles me.

I think some is her dowry and some has been inherited from her deceased parents, probably being kept in a shoe box under the mattress

OP posts:
FarFarFarAndAway · 04/06/2022 21:32

How does she afford to live now?

I guess either your husband continues to accept her crazy ways or he doesn't. There isn't an ideal solution because all the practical legal solutions are not ones she will accept, but ultimately he does hold all the cards and all the money.

Talk of downsizing or moving in with her is nonsense, of course you should do what is best for your own family.

The issue is your DH has tried to fix this all his life, got into massive debt and I bet he is still paying for her to live. The inheritance is a red herring because it might all get used up by care fees, or FIL may leave it to the dog's home. That's not the issue, the issue is her day to day living costs.

Is there someone within her community who could help her by translating and filling in the forms for benefits.

Your DH has to harden his heart against her emotional blackmail and manipulation and just tell her to claim what she's entitled to, it's the only way. Or just carry on shelling out which is I guess what he will actually do as he is scared/has strong community obligations to her. I would be very firm with him myself that this is taking away from your family. Or just accept the missing money per month will go on forever.

pjani · 04/06/2022 21:32

This sounds so unbelievably hard. I really feel for you and it’s hard to know what to suggest.

Firstly, don’t rise to the bait about selling your house. That is absolute madness. You’re doing the right thing for your kids and family. Keep it and enjoy it!

Don’t move in with her.

I would be tempted to settle on a figure that you would be happy to provide her eg £200 a month for the rest of her life linked to inflation. And that’s it. She can manage here own finances from there. And if she blows up about it, you’ll have to step back until she can manage herself better.

I’m sure that’s easier said than done though. Just know you’re doing great and it’s not your fault she’s like this.

flashbac · 04/06/2022 21:33

How much would it cost to make up the lost NI credits? How old is she?

shandon14 · 04/06/2022 21:35

I would be tempted to seek power of attorney as at least then you might have more control. You are stuck with this it seems. I wouldn't give her money but I would pay for things and I would prioritise topping up NI contributions.

The other thing I would do is reduce contact as much as I could.

I wonder will she be able to challenge the will and is it worth doing so - worth getting legal advice on this.

FarFarFarAndAway · 04/06/2022 21:35

The pilgrimage money is peanuts compared to her living costs if she needed care, and FIL's inheritance is irrelevant as he might live to 100! It's all about day to day living and what your DH is prepared to do to stand up for your family. I have a feeling you won't be able to change that significantly unless you either become very tough about that or he tangibly sees it affecting his own children.

There's no need to cut her off, but there is a need to be much clearer in communication with her, and to put her in touch with community organizations which help women in similar situations, which will exist.

Avastmehearties · 04/06/2022 21:37

Might be worth speaking to a solicitor about the will?

It's really hard to say anything of use as I'm not from your DH's culture so don't fully grasp the weight of obligation etc that he bears. However, she owns a house outright and has money from somewhere in the bank (where from?) so isn't in dire straits by any stretch unless she chooses to prioritise something she cannot afford over living expenses.

Might she listen more if he was able to explain to her that you won't be able to finance her living costs but with someone to mediate, say a financial adviser who speaks her language? They might be able to help her understand she has to budget, take accountability and make the right decisions? Feels like he (and you) has shouldered far too much alone for too long with regards to his parents' messed up lifestyle hence suggesting bringing in outside help. I'm talking about the abuse and deception etc being messed up, not different cultural practices.

Overthewine · 04/06/2022 21:38

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Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:39

FarFarFarAndAway · 04/06/2022 21:32

How does she afford to live now?

I guess either your husband continues to accept her crazy ways or he doesn't. There isn't an ideal solution because all the practical legal solutions are not ones she will accept, but ultimately he does hold all the cards and all the money.

Talk of downsizing or moving in with her is nonsense, of course you should do what is best for your own family.

The issue is your DH has tried to fix this all his life, got into massive debt and I bet he is still paying for her to live. The inheritance is a red herring because it might all get used up by care fees, or FIL may leave it to the dog's home. That's not the issue, the issue is her day to day living costs.

Is there someone within her community who could help her by translating and filling in the forms for benefits.

Your DH has to harden his heart against her emotional blackmail and manipulation and just tell her to claim what she's entitled to, it's the only way. Or just carry on shelling out which is I guess what he will actually do as he is scared/has strong community obligations to her. I would be very firm with him myself that this is taking away from your family. Or just accept the missing money per month will go on forever.

He doesn’t pay for her right now, FIL does still. He covers all bills, maintenance and expenses. Except he won’t cover the pilgrimage. But when he passes away this will stop, as he’s basically left everything to his 2nd family. That’s basically the issue. Valid point about care fees though if he needs them. The real crux is once he dies and as she’s got nothing coming in by way of pension or inheritance from him, her expectation is us, i wasn’t sure if there was something available I’d not thought of

OP posts:
Palavah · 04/06/2022 21:41

If MIL is the legal wife, she would be better off divorcing him, but presumably this would be difficult to persuade her.

Even if she's not the legal wife then she could challenge the will.

tryingtosettle · 04/06/2022 21:41

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Not true. Upon DIVORCE all assets are marital assets and the starting point for division is 50/50. However when one party dies its all about how the assets are owned. If FIL owns them solely he can leave them to whomever he likes, whether MIL has a valid legal claim as a dependant and wishes to contest the will in court after his death, that's up to her to find out. It can be extremely costly, however. Only if assets are owned jointly (joint tenants of property) does MIL automatically inherit as that does not form part of the estate.

Sarah3587 · 04/06/2022 21:41

Why on earth did you marry him and marry into that family?
Sounds hectic as hell for you and the children.

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:43

FarFarFarAndAway · 04/06/2022 21:35

The pilgrimage money is peanuts compared to her living costs if she needed care, and FIL's inheritance is irrelevant as he might live to 100! It's all about day to day living and what your DH is prepared to do to stand up for your family. I have a feeling you won't be able to change that significantly unless you either become very tough about that or he tangibly sees it affecting his own children.

There's no need to cut her off, but there is a need to be much clearer in communication with her, and to put her in touch with community organizations which help women in similar situations, which will exist.

Pilgrimage is about £10k but yes in the grand scheme of things it’s not the core of the problem but to me is symptomatic, right she has some money but her priority is wrong. It should be used to top her NI up, I think it’s about £7k to do so. But she won’t
.

the community organisations is a good idea, I’d not thought of that. Wasn’t even sure if in light of everything cut back wise they’d even exist

OP posts:
newbiename · 04/06/2022 21:46

If FIL dies first would she be entitled to benefits ? You could claim them ?
Although it is hard to be sympathetic to her if she's lived in the UK all this time and never bothered to learn English or work.

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:46

Sarah3587 · 04/06/2022 21:41

Why on earth did you marry him and marry into that family?
Sounds hectic as hell for you and the children.

Because it’s not his fault is it, granted I didn’t think she’d be as fucking ridiculous as she is but it’s not his fault that all this happened to him. I think that he worked at 16, 3 jobs whilst going to school and getting good a levels and going to uni to support his mum, and took on that role shows a huge amount of character and determination, not many people so young could shoulder that burden

OP posts:
newbiename · 04/06/2022 21:47

Also , I know you shouldn't have to but can you afford to top up her NI ? At least she'll get something.

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:48

newbiename · 04/06/2022 21:46

If FIL dies first would she be entitled to benefits ? You could claim them ?
Although it is hard to be sympathetic to her if she's lived in the UK all this time and never bothered to learn English or work.

She could claim now, but she won’t catch a bus to the job centre and apparently they sent her different places for classes and stuff and it was really hard as DH was having to take time off work to take her, she won’t take the bus and the cost of taxis negated the amount she was getting

OP posts:
Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:49

newbiename · 04/06/2022 21:47

Also , I know you shouldn't have to but can you afford to top up her NI ? At least she'll get something.

It’s in the thousands, I mean we could but it’s the best part of £10k and weve worked so much for that I’m loathed to, with the rises I dunno how long it would take to save £10k again

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 04/06/2022 21:50

She really isn't your problem. I think in your position I would pay to get advice from a solicitor on exactly where she stands in the event of her 'husband's' death. If she is his legal wife now her best way forward is to seek a divorce. There is no reason that you need to take on responsibility for supporting her. Dont even think about it.