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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Polygamy, first family and financial trouble - need some perspective here

339 replies

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:17

Right so I’m going to try and be as a clear as I can be without being massively outing.

DH is from a minority community in the UK. His father has 2 wives. MIL and SMIL. It was some nasty business how it was done, both had no idea. It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal MIL, so please no bigamy Comments. Polygamy is accepted in DHs community. There is a clear 1st and 2nd family situation. DH grew up in squalor and 2nd family grew up with the best of the best. MIL has never worked a day in her life, (she’s a very simple woman, illiterate no English) she claims she couldn’t work, she doesn’t claim or has never claimed because she woildnt ride the bus to get to English classes and job interviews etc and obviously it was during school time/ working hours so DH couldn’t accompany her. From 16 years old DH worked 3 jobs whilst in school to provide for them. he still went to university and got a degree and started working but due to financial burden was racked in debt. House repairs, bills, her glasses, dents treatment, food, new boiler, bathroom, kitchen you name it, DH paid for it. FIL gave them when DH was a child a £15k auction house, so there were A LOT of repairs needed.

he met me, we married. Prior to marriage he was upfront about his debt, because he was in a v bad place and long story short he had to beg FIL to start covering MIL expenses (to be clear it is now religious and cultural obligation to do so especially in a polygamous marriage). We worked out his finances and he’s still paying his way out of debt nearly 10 years later. I’m from another culture and not to go into it because it’s not strictly relevant here but MIL has been quite unkind to me over the years, she is better now that I have children but it’s worth a mention:

it has come out that FIL has purposely cut MIL and DH out of the will. He probably assets included it’s about 300k. DH told MIL and she said she didn’t care it’s DHs responsibility to pay for her to live, that’s why she had him to take care of her and we should sell our house to take care of her because we shouldnt have bought a house. I don’t know where she thinks our 3 kids are supposed to live. He’s her only child.

FIL has had some health scares lately and with the rising cost of everything we’re both worried about this additional financial burden. She’s paid no NI so has no state pension. She has money but won’t spend that to top up NI because she’s saving it for a religious pilgrimage. We have good jobs and we most certainly do not live beyond our means. We live in the most affordable decent area commutable distance from where we work, but also close enough to her because she had a meltdown when she found out we wanted a house. We also have 3 kids and associated childcare and expenses, a 4 bed house, one car, no pets, we do have savings but it’s for our retirement at probably 80 and for overpayments and rainy day funds. We have good jobs like I said, between 85-90 before tax, but the rises in everything are steep. Mortgage looks like it will be going up by £200 a month (no extra borrowing) childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day, we all know about energy and petrol and inflation. Our annual rises didn’t even touch the sides of how high inflation is. We are fairly comfy and definitely aren’t kitted out in designer attire but I do feel loathed to stop the children having any hobbies or sell our house to cover the extra £5/600 for pcm for MIL cost of living, or basically live from paycheque to paycheque and start the cycle of debt, which is what would happen given the rises, which will keep rising. Even selling the house would be daft because what we paid for a 4 bed would get you a 3 bed now because property prices have risen so much.

FIL is a v unkind man who has treated her and DH like dogshit for years, I do genuinely believe the best outcome would be for MIL to file for divorce and then she’d be entitled to half of his assets, even if she just got 75k, it’s something. But she won’t. She’s also not w particularly nice person in truth, a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse has been used against dh over the years.
i cannot move in with her for my mental health so that’s not an option, even if we got on like a house on fire, it’s a v small house. 2 bed, one a small double and the other a single.

what’s the utopia here? I can’t think straight, how do you work through this situation. She won’t work, won’t claim, won’t divorce him, would spend her money on a pilgrimage rather than cost of living and will have no inheritance, it’s just for DH to figure out. DH has spoken to his M and it’s like banging head against a brick wall and frankly the things she is coming out with are repugnant. Like you can’t afford to take care of me, well you should have thought of that before you bought a house you can’t afford’. It’s making us both stressed and me quite angry because I’d never put this on my kids: I’ve got no issue with helping out someone in need or even helping her out a bit but I think we might go under if we took everything on with no other income.

can anyone suggest anything?

OP posts:
Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:50

Palavah · 04/06/2022 21:41

If MIL is the legal wife, she would be better off divorcing him, but presumably this would be difficult to persuade her.

Even if she's not the legal wife then she could challenge the will.

She is the legal wife but she won’t divorce him, so yes she could challenge the will but that’s going to be costly and guess who’ll have to pay … muggins

OP posts:
Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:52

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

my faith in social services is pretty low but would they be able to support in helping her access what financial support there is?

OP posts:
Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:54

I can’t find the post but the advice of a financial advisor that speaks her language isn’t a bad shout, we actually know one, DH was one lol. Thank you for suggesting, sorry whoever posted it would at you but I can’t find the post

OP posts:
surreymum89 · 04/06/2022 21:55

This sounds like my OH mum, same cultural views about children providing for their parents, although she does have a job (low paying and very part time), she tells OH that she wants to quit this job and he should pay her several hundred pounds a month along with his sisters , randomly phones up demanding thousands of pounds , but then has money out of nowhere to want to go on a religious pilgrimage and take my OH with her for weeks when we have young children (luckily for other reasons that didn't go ahead).

I know it's a cultural difference and that's how they have been raised but it honestly infuriates me the entitlement she feels and I'm always worried about what she wants next and I know it stresses out my OH having to say 'no that's not a plausible option right now' he feels guilty and is made to feel like a failure by her.

I don't have much advice just in a similar situation , All I can do is make it very clear to OH that our children come before his mum and the rest is for him to deal with.

Soupercat · 04/06/2022 21:58

TLDR

OnaBegonia · 04/06/2022 21:58

I'm afraid I'd be more brutal
and contact adult SS, this isn't going to get my easier as she ages, she's vulnerable and you cannot be expected to find her lifestyle in any way.

PetersRabbitt · 04/06/2022 22:00

Your just enabling her to do nothing.

This is very simple to sort out. Tell her to jog on. It’s that easy! Cut this crap out your life.

Shes is choosing to not divorce, with that choice comes consequences-it’s her choice, she is choosing, it’s nothing to do with you or your DH. He has his own life.

Gazelda · 04/06/2022 22:00

Why does FIL continue to financially support her? If it's because it's expected of him in his culture, then is there a similar obligation on him to ensure she is secure if he passes before she does? Can you investigate this within the culture? And can you speak with an elder or similar to establish the usual expectations in these circumstances?

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 22:01

Soupercat · 04/06/2022 21:58

TLDR

What does that mean?

OP posts:
Tigertigertigertiger · 04/06/2022 22:01

Is FIL likely to die first/ soon ?

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 22:03

Gazelda · 04/06/2022 22:00

Why does FIL continue to financially support her? If it's because it's expected of him in his culture, then is there a similar obligation on him to ensure she is secure if he passes before she does? Can you investigate this within the culture? And can you speak with an elder or similar to establish the usual expectations in these circumstances?

Because they are legally married and yes it’s his responsibility religiously and culturally to provide for both of his wives. It’s also because when dh was broke he had to beg his dad to start paying for her again, it’s just never stopped.

2nd wife just wouldn’t allow anything to be left to them, it’s all ‘hers’ she pushed for dh to provide for his mum from 16. It’s disgusting.

OP posts:
Lillonely · 04/06/2022 22:04

Tigertigertigertiger · 04/06/2022 22:01

Is FIL likely to die first/ soon ?

i mean no terminal diagnosis but his health isn’t great and she’s fit as a fiddle

OP posts:
Overthewine · 04/06/2022 22:06

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Wor · 04/06/2022 22:07

Suggest you all see a therapist and then a lawyer.

  1. Irrespective of culture, MIL, FIL and SIL are all bonkers and not very nice.
  2. You’re in the UK, so FIL does not have two wives, he has a wife and a mistress. Stepping away from their deluded terminology is helpful because this situation is in desperate need of a reality check.
  3. DH has been in an emotionally and financially abusive relationship for his entire life, with both parents neglecting and exploiting him. He needs to recognise that his parents are abusive to him, hence my suggestion of a therapist. The healthiest thing would probably be for him to go no contact with his parents for a while, to force them to sort out their marriage/divorce.
  4. If MIL doesn’t want a divorce that’s incredibly stupid as she’s entitled to a lot of money. If she chooses not to claim it then there is no reason for DH to pay her instead and he should not give her anything.
  5. The main thing you can do is recognise that DH is an abuse victim, that he may still be somewhat brainwashed, and make sure that you have as much financial control as possible re your family finances. Otherwise his mum may eventually bully him into handing over cash.
  6. Don’t get distracted by the culture difference. In every culture in the world there are mothers who work incredibly hard to provide for their children. MIL’s decision to use her son as a piggy bank is her nasty decision, no one else’s.
I’m sorry your DH has such horrible parents that must have been very very hard for him, then and now. 😔
mathanxiety · 04/06/2022 22:07

If MIL and FIL are legally married, no matter what country they married in, the second MIL is considered lto be a mistress, with zero legal standing.

FIL can't cut MIL out of the will in favour of second 'wife'. This is regardless of immigration status.

MIL needs to find and keep safe proof of her marriage.

Don't get sucked into the tangled web MIL has set for your DH. Separate your own finances from his if possible. Make a budget. Give MIL a tenner every now and then.

Is there a progressive cleric your DH could sit down with to have a chat? He needs to get good, sensible advice about his obligations and about the atrocious behaviour of his father.

catandcoffee · 04/06/2022 22:10

OP. there is a new South Asian mumsnet section .
would this be any use to you ?

mathanxiety · 04/06/2022 22:12

You keep on saying 'second wife'.

There is much thing under British law.

The other woman is a mistress and not a wife. It doesn't matter what the customs or laws of FIL and MIL''s home country and religion say. British law applies in Britain.

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 22:13

Wor · 04/06/2022 22:07

Suggest you all see a therapist and then a lawyer.

  1. Irrespective of culture, MIL, FIL and SIL are all bonkers and not very nice.
  2. You’re in the UK, so FIL does not have two wives, he has a wife and a mistress. Stepping away from their deluded terminology is helpful because this situation is in desperate need of a reality check.
  3. DH has been in an emotionally and financially abusive relationship for his entire life, with both parents neglecting and exploiting him. He needs to recognise that his parents are abusive to him, hence my suggestion of a therapist. The healthiest thing would probably be for him to go no contact with his parents for a while, to force them to sort out their marriage/divorce.
  4. If MIL doesn’t want a divorce that’s incredibly stupid as she’s entitled to a lot of money. If she chooses not to claim it then there is no reason for DH to pay her instead and he should not give her anything.
  5. The main thing you can do is recognise that DH is an abuse victim, that he may still be somewhat brainwashed, and make sure that you have as much financial control as possible re your family finances. Otherwise his mum may eventually bully him into handing over cash.
  6. Don’t get distracted by the culture difference. In every culture in the world there are mothers who work incredibly hard to provide for their children. MIL’s decision to use her son as a piggy bank is her nasty decision, no one else’s.
I’m sorry your DH has such horrible parents that must have been very very hard for him, then and now. 😔

yeah basically sMil is ‘the other woman’ it was for the purposes of this thread and because in our religion men can have more than one wife but you’re spot on he’s basically been abused his whole life

OP posts:
bananaskinny · 04/06/2022 22:14

What a shit show of a family they sound but being part of the same culture, I will categorically warn you NOT to move in with her or let her move in with you- she'll ruin your family. She clearly sees her son as her retirement plan and is not having a strop when she's realising that's not going to plan. I will say though, the religion your ILs belong to is very firm on inheritance- there are thousands upon thousands of scholars who have researched Islamic inheritance and there's a set way of dividing assets. For example, even neighbours are entitled to a share of the deceased's wealth. A believer cannot disinherit their own child and spouse- that's considered a major sin. If your FIL is considered a person of standing within his community (or even if he isn't), contact your local mosque or a scholar and seek clarity on this matter- it may be that him knowing you have taken this step will shame him into changing his will. Not the right thing to do (using religion to blackmail someone) but if the FIL is a 'believer' then he ought to put his money where his mouth is and do the right thing.

islamicinheritance.com/islamic-inheritance-guide/

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 22:16

mathanxiety · 04/06/2022 22:12

You keep on saying 'second wife'.

There is much thing under British law.

The other woman is a mistress and not a wife. It doesn't matter what the customs or laws of FIL and MIL''s home country and religion say. British law applies in Britain.

To be clear in my religion you can have more than 1, so even if UK law doesn’t perceive them as legally married it’s how they view the relationship if that makes sense. There are also religious obligations In terms of what a husband must do, all of which FIL has not done

OP posts:
Lillonely · 04/06/2022 22:18

mathanxiety · 04/06/2022 22:07

If MIL and FIL are legally married, no matter what country they married in, the second MIL is considered lto be a mistress, with zero legal standing.

FIL can't cut MIL out of the will in favour of second 'wife'. This is regardless of immigration status.

MIL needs to find and keep safe proof of her marriage.

Don't get sucked into the tangled web MIL has set for your DH. Separate your own finances from his if possible. Make a budget. Give MIL a tenner every now and then.

Is there a progressive cleric your DH could sit down with to have a chat? He needs to get good, sensible advice about his obligations and about the atrocious behaviour of his father.

I think you can cut whoever you want out of a will, it’s not so much SMILs legally standing re the will it’s more her emotional standing with FIL, she is the one who lives with him and they have a joint will together as they own their home together

the community and all the clerics disgust me as they have turned a blind eye to this for decades. Utterly vile

OP posts:
Lillonely · 04/06/2022 22:20

bananaskinny · 04/06/2022 22:14

What a shit show of a family they sound but being part of the same culture, I will categorically warn you NOT to move in with her or let her move in with you- she'll ruin your family. She clearly sees her son as her retirement plan and is not having a strop when she's realising that's not going to plan. I will say though, the religion your ILs belong to is very firm on inheritance- there are thousands upon thousands of scholars who have researched Islamic inheritance and there's a set way of dividing assets. For example, even neighbours are entitled to a share of the deceased's wealth. A believer cannot disinherit their own child and spouse- that's considered a major sin. If your FIL is considered a person of standing within his community (or even if he isn't), contact your local mosque or a scholar and seek clarity on this matter- it may be that him knowing you have taken this step will shame him into changing his will. Not the right thing to do (using religion to blackmail someone) but if the FIL is a 'believer' then he ought to put his money where his mouth is and do the right thing.

islamicinheritance.com/islamic-inheritance-guide/

Honestly this man, he’s one of those looking religious types. You can’t favour children over the other islamically and you must treat both wives equally but dh grew up with dirty clothes with holes and left behind on family holidays and they had all the newest trends. It’s sickening

OP posts:
DisforDarkChocolate · 04/06/2022 22:24

Your DH needs legal advice. I think if FIL is married and supporting MIL she will have a good case if she is disinherited.

bellac11 · 04/06/2022 22:31

This reply has been deleted

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

She certainly wouldnt end up with a social worker if she didnt like it, you have to have consent to make the referral in the first place, does it sound like the mother in law would give this?

Do you think adult care social workers foist themselves on people? You have to be begging on your knees for a service in the first place anyway

MissConductUS · 04/06/2022 22:32

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 22:01

What does that mean?

It means "too long, didn't read".

I'm so sorry you're in this spot. Is there anyone she would listen to about the need for her to take more responsibility for herself?

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