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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Polygamy, first family and financial trouble - need some perspective here

339 replies

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:17

Right so I’m going to try and be as a clear as I can be without being massively outing.

DH is from a minority community in the UK. His father has 2 wives. MIL and SMIL. It was some nasty business how it was done, both had no idea. It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal MIL, so please no bigamy Comments. Polygamy is accepted in DHs community. There is a clear 1st and 2nd family situation. DH grew up in squalor and 2nd family grew up with the best of the best. MIL has never worked a day in her life, (she’s a very simple woman, illiterate no English) she claims she couldn’t work, she doesn’t claim or has never claimed because she woildnt ride the bus to get to English classes and job interviews etc and obviously it was during school time/ working hours so DH couldn’t accompany her. From 16 years old DH worked 3 jobs whilst in school to provide for them. he still went to university and got a degree and started working but due to financial burden was racked in debt. House repairs, bills, her glasses, dents treatment, food, new boiler, bathroom, kitchen you name it, DH paid for it. FIL gave them when DH was a child a £15k auction house, so there were A LOT of repairs needed.

he met me, we married. Prior to marriage he was upfront about his debt, because he was in a v bad place and long story short he had to beg FIL to start covering MIL expenses (to be clear it is now religious and cultural obligation to do so especially in a polygamous marriage). We worked out his finances and he’s still paying his way out of debt nearly 10 years later. I’m from another culture and not to go into it because it’s not strictly relevant here but MIL has been quite unkind to me over the years, she is better now that I have children but it’s worth a mention:

it has come out that FIL has purposely cut MIL and DH out of the will. He probably assets included it’s about 300k. DH told MIL and she said she didn’t care it’s DHs responsibility to pay for her to live, that’s why she had him to take care of her and we should sell our house to take care of her because we shouldnt have bought a house. I don’t know where she thinks our 3 kids are supposed to live. He’s her only child.

FIL has had some health scares lately and with the rising cost of everything we’re both worried about this additional financial burden. She’s paid no NI so has no state pension. She has money but won’t spend that to top up NI because she’s saving it for a religious pilgrimage. We have good jobs and we most certainly do not live beyond our means. We live in the most affordable decent area commutable distance from where we work, but also close enough to her because she had a meltdown when she found out we wanted a house. We also have 3 kids and associated childcare and expenses, a 4 bed house, one car, no pets, we do have savings but it’s for our retirement at probably 80 and for overpayments and rainy day funds. We have good jobs like I said, between 85-90 before tax, but the rises in everything are steep. Mortgage looks like it will be going up by £200 a month (no extra borrowing) childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day, we all know about energy and petrol and inflation. Our annual rises didn’t even touch the sides of how high inflation is. We are fairly comfy and definitely aren’t kitted out in designer attire but I do feel loathed to stop the children having any hobbies or sell our house to cover the extra £5/600 for pcm for MIL cost of living, or basically live from paycheque to paycheque and start the cycle of debt, which is what would happen given the rises, which will keep rising. Even selling the house would be daft because what we paid for a 4 bed would get you a 3 bed now because property prices have risen so much.

FIL is a v unkind man who has treated her and DH like dogshit for years, I do genuinely believe the best outcome would be for MIL to file for divorce and then she’d be entitled to half of his assets, even if she just got 75k, it’s something. But she won’t. She’s also not w particularly nice person in truth, a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse has been used against dh over the years.
i cannot move in with her for my mental health so that’s not an option, even if we got on like a house on fire, it’s a v small house. 2 bed, one a small double and the other a single.

what’s the utopia here? I can’t think straight, how do you work through this situation. She won’t work, won’t claim, won’t divorce him, would spend her money on a pilgrimage rather than cost of living and will have no inheritance, it’s just for DH to figure out. DH has spoken to his M and it’s like banging head against a brick wall and frankly the things she is coming out with are repugnant. Like you can’t afford to take care of me, well you should have thought of that before you bought a house you can’t afford’. It’s making us both stressed and me quite angry because I’d never put this on my kids: I’ve got no issue with helping out someone in need or even helping her out a bit but I think we might go under if we took everything on with no other income.

can anyone suggest anything?

OP posts:
lameasahorse · 05/06/2022 01:26

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

silentpool · 05/06/2022 01:31

I would be very worried that she does not legally own that house. I would suggest speaking to a lawyer about the best course of action. Perhaps someone who understands the cultural context.

Whatever your DH can do while his father is still alive to shore up his mother's position would be good i.e getting her on the deeds. Then I would certainly sue for her portion of the estate later - it's not a great situation for any of you but I don't see why you collectively need to pay the price for DH's father's selfishness.

Vijia · 05/06/2022 01:41

Op there is no point fighting against their religious and cultural values. It would be better for you if you just accept that he is obligated to financially support his mum for the rest of her life.

I don't understand why you didn't do your research before you married into this culture and religion and it's too easy to blame the woman, she is not to blame. She probably has zero confidence and may have been treated badly her whole life.

Your DH knew his responsibilities when he married you and the fact you have a good job means at the back of his mind he would have been relieved because he now can share the financial burden with you.

He might ostensibly moan about this to you but he knew exactly what he was doing by marrying you.

There is no way in hell will your DH leave his mum destitute and you are not going to get very far trying to drive a wedge between them.

His loyalty will be to his mum and his Dc before you so if I were you I would be kind to his mum, try and help build her confidence and see how you get on with that but the most important thing is for you to change your attitude and view her as your fourth DC if you like, and help share your dh's burden in a generous way, could you increase your hours or go for a promotion to help more financially?

Being mean spirited and selfish minded will only cause your family harm so Change your attitude and see this as a joint responsibility so that at least the next 40 years will be harmonious rather than toxic ( that's if she lives to be 100).

What's the alternative? If you divorced you would be entitled to half the marital assets.

I would not rock the boat but learn to accept the culture and religion you have married into and make peace with it for all your sakes.

Vijia · 05/06/2022 01:57

As far as Adult Social Care is concerned, you can request a Care Act assessment on her behalf but she sounds fighting fit so I doubt she will have care needs.

Financially if she has no income then they might find she has been subject to coercive control and signpost her for help so there might be help giving her advice but she is not obligated to take it.

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 02:09

Vijia · 05/06/2022 01:41

Op there is no point fighting against their religious and cultural values. It would be better for you if you just accept that he is obligated to financially support his mum for the rest of her life.

I don't understand why you didn't do your research before you married into this culture and religion and it's too easy to blame the woman, she is not to blame. She probably has zero confidence and may have been treated badly her whole life.

Your DH knew his responsibilities when he married you and the fact you have a good job means at the back of his mind he would have been relieved because he now can share the financial burden with you.

He might ostensibly moan about this to you but he knew exactly what he was doing by marrying you.

There is no way in hell will your DH leave his mum destitute and you are not going to get very far trying to drive a wedge between them.

His loyalty will be to his mum and his Dc before you so if I were you I would be kind to his mum, try and help build her confidence and see how you get on with that but the most important thing is for you to change your attitude and view her as your fourth DC if you like, and help share your dh's burden in a generous way, could you increase your hours or go for a promotion to help more financially?

Being mean spirited and selfish minded will only cause your family harm so Change your attitude and see this as a joint responsibility so that at least the next 40 years will be harmonious rather than toxic ( that's if she lives to be 100).

What's the alternative? If you divorced you would be entitled to half the marital assets.

I would not rock the boat but learn to accept the culture and religion you have married into and make peace with it for all your sakes.

Wtf!

if she could type and you know speak English, I’d think you were her!

firstly, I knew he had it very tough as a lad but the extent of how toxic it was, I didn’t know, tbh DH didn’t even know as when you are in the centre of all this abuse and nonsense, you tune it out to get by.

sorry but you don’t know her lack of confidence isn’t her issue, lack of skills and drive is. Also I’m not mean spirited towards her, as I’ve said in my OP over many many years she’s been awful to due to me being from another culture. Also I was born into this religion too so I didn’t marry into it. I also have no siblings, i also have parents who are much much older. It’s not my responsibility to secure a promotion to pay for her, what nonsense is this! My primary concern in this is the impact the additional expenses will be on our family, ie our children of which she is not one. It is not a joint responsibility, she is not my mother, she is my husbands abusive mother.

your comment is ridiculous.

OP posts:
Lillonely · 05/06/2022 02:15

timeisnotaline · 05/06/2022 00:49

And to clarify from your title, the polygamy is not an issue. Nor is the father the only problem/ bad person here re your dh, so is his mother. It’s a classic case of husband not supporting his wife and abandoning his child, it’s not terribly relevant that he has a second wife.

yeah they are both the problem but in different ways.

the second wife / second family thing even though it might not come across it in the posts is quite important because wife #2 is the reason dh was lumbered with taking care of wife #1 from 16 whilst her kids were in private school, the one driving the wills and dh to not be left anything etc.

OP posts:
Lillonely · 05/06/2022 02:16

silentpool · 05/06/2022 01:31

I would be very worried that she does not legally own that house. I would suggest speaking to a lawyer about the best course of action. Perhaps someone who understands the cultural context.

Whatever your DH can do while his father is still alive to shore up his mother's position would be good i.e getting her on the deeds. Then I would certainly sue for her portion of the estate later - it's not a great situation for any of you but I don't see why you collectively need to pay the price for DH's father's selfishness.

the title deeds are definitely in her name, land registry confirmed it

OP posts:
5zeds · 05/06/2022 02:20

If she’s father left them when he was 16 why did he think he would inherit?

Fraaahnces · 05/06/2022 02:34

FIL chose to marry twice and has not met his obligations to family 2. I believe that this would be considered a serious moral as well as ethical failing in any religion. I doubt that FIL respects DH or you, let alone MIL’s voice regarding his failure, but I would imagine that he specialises with men within his religious community and his own place within that would be a vitally important part of his own identity as a man. Is there a religious figure of standing that DH could speak to about this? I think you need to bring in a religious figure to speak some sense to (and maybe manipulate) the father about his moral failings. (And hold the prospect of shame within his community over his head.)

Fraaahnces · 05/06/2022 02:34

*socialises, not specialises…

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 02:35

5zeds · 05/06/2022 02:20

If she’s father left them when he was 16 why did he think he would inherit?

It’s not a case of him having ever lived with them, that’s never happened it was more that when he finished mainstream school and went to college SMIL thought it was time he stood on his own two feet and took care of his mother. FIL went along with this.
i don’t think dh ever thought he’d inherit but he is his son, it does really take a piece of work to chose your other kids by one woman over your others but from what I’ve read on MN and other places the whole first and second family thing is all too common. The first children from the first partner/ wife or whatever are always forgotten about.

FIL has also said to MIL that he’d always leave her something he just can’t give her anything now due to SMIL (she’s stopping him apparently don’t know how true this is) so to learn this is all a lie isn’t great, although I suspected as much

OP posts:
Lillonely · 05/06/2022 02:38

Lillonely · 05/06/2022 02:09

Wtf!

if she could type and you know speak English, I’d think you were her!

firstly, I knew he had it very tough as a lad but the extent of how toxic it was, I didn’t know, tbh DH didn’t even know as when you are in the centre of all this abuse and nonsense, you tune it out to get by.

sorry but you don’t know her lack of confidence isn’t her issue, lack of skills and drive is. Also I’m not mean spirited towards her, as I’ve said in my OP over many many years she’s been awful to due to me being from another culture. Also I was born into this religion too so I didn’t marry into it. I also have no siblings, i also have parents who are much much older. It’s not my responsibility to secure a promotion to pay for her, what nonsense is this! My primary concern in this is the impact the additional expenses will be on our family, ie our children of which she is not one. It is not a joint responsibility, she is not my mother, she is my husbands abusive mother.

your comment is ridiculous.

Also on this, yes I will work to get a promotion as I do want to progress to better my life, save for my old age, but mostly to provide for my children and give them the best life I can. That is my impetus to progress at work not so that I can provide for her when she’s unwilling to do anything to better the situation and to facility FIL to neglect his responsibilities:

also promotions don’t grow on trees

OP posts:
Lillonely · 05/06/2022 02:43

Fraaahnces · 05/06/2022 02:34

FIL chose to marry twice and has not met his obligations to family 2. I believe that this would be considered a serious moral as well as ethical failing in any religion. I doubt that FIL respects DH or you, let alone MIL’s voice regarding his failure, but I would imagine that he specialises with men within his religious community and his own place within that would be a vitally important part of his own identity as a man. Is there a religious figure of standing that DH could speak to about this? I think you need to bring in a religious figure to speak some sense to (and maybe manipulate) the father about his moral failings. (And hold the prospect of shame within his community over his head.)

im actually dumbstruck that no ‘religious’ elders have said shit to FIL.

honestly how dh grew up, v his siblings is disgusting and so well known. Holes in his clothes and shoes, single glazed windows, sleeping in coats and gloves in the winter, plain boiled rice for dinner because FIL ‘forgot’ to give them money for a few weeks. I have 0 faith in any elder/ religious figure in that community.

OP posts:
Nat6999 · 05/06/2022 03:13

Is she retirement age? Look at claiming pension credits for her & if she is younger then it will have to be universal credit. Is there someone in her community who could advise & maybe speak to her?

silentpool · 05/06/2022 03:35

If she owns the house, then I agree with others that the next step is to look into getting her some income.

There must be some benefits that she can claim. This will alleviate some of the burden for your family. YANBU OP, this is not a fair or reasonable situation so perhaps there is a service provider who can assist her in her own language?

Fraaahnces · 05/06/2022 04:34

Can’t say I blame you at all @Lillonely. have to admit that I feel the same. Meanwhile, if DH made his presence known and outed the truth of the situation, I am sure that your FIL (who sounds like a cliche misogynist member of his religion - and I know that not all are like that…), then FIL wouldn’t be able to risk his pride being injured. He would claim ignorance and publicly fix the inequality. (Especially as DW#2 is clearly the dominant partner. He would make a show of “manning up” and standing up to that awful woman.)

Fraaahnces · 05/06/2022 04:35

*This isn’t at all a suggestion that DH needs to rediscover religion to save his soul or anything… I’m as atheist as it comes. It’s simply a way to put FIL in his place in a way that would have impact.

ivykaty44 · 05/06/2022 04:45

He CAN write a Will leaving his estate elsewhere. But as his legal wife she can contest it. Easier if she’s dependent on him of course. He needs to pay for her.

I work in probate.

this ^

thered be a good case as his legal wife and dependant on him

StageRage · 05/06/2022 05:01

OP: owning a house does not preclude you from Pension Credit.

Basilbrushgotfat · 05/06/2022 05:20

Gosh, op, your husband sounds like an amazing man. I'm so sorry for all of you.

I absolutely think your first port of call needs to be a solicitor specialising in family law. They can advise on the legality of the will and I think if you seek legal advice now you surely must have a good chance of successfully challenging it. You might also be able to put a claim against FILs house on her behalf.

I think a pp mentioned power of attorney. Given the responsibility your DH has always had to take for his mum, i think this is something you certainly need to explore. Financial PoA at least. You'd be obliged to act in her best financial interests so wouldn't necessarily need her agreement to do what it is right for her.

I would also look for support groups for people who have left your DHs religion. I'm not suggesting he leave it, but he needs the support of people who understand the manipulation he is having to face and have come out the other side.

Like it or not, these are legal matters you're dealing with and so you need proper legal advice. Have a couple of consultations with a good solicitor so you know the lie of the land and what your options are, you can then decide how you want to proceed. It might be that should you proceed the cost of the solicitor can be offset against the claim.

But whatever you ultimately decide, you need to be armed with knowledge.

Mummyoflittledragon · 05/06/2022 06:04

silentpool · 05/06/2022 01:31

I would be very worried that she does not legally own that house. I would suggest speaking to a lawyer about the best course of action. Perhaps someone who understands the cultural context.

Whatever your DH can do while his father is still alive to shore up his mother's position would be good i.e getting her on the deeds. Then I would certainly sue for her portion of the estate later - it's not a great situation for any of you but I don't see why you collectively need to pay the price for DH's father's selfishness.

This is. Very good point. You can obtain a full set of land registry documents for about £6.

AgentJohnson · 05/06/2022 06:14

This sounds very hard. I’m not defending your MIL but your MIL but she was probably very young when she got married and brought to another country and dumped. If she barely had an education in her home country it and had no support network in this one, then her entitled child behaviour is not so strange.

I can totally understand why she is reluctant to divorce, her legal marriage in English law is all the status she has. She knows her son won’t abandon her, so financially divorce makes know difference because her son has and will take up the slack. The only leverage your DH has is money and if he isn’t prepared to cut her off, then she won’t change. Necessity is the mother of all invention, if your MIL believes that divorce is the only means of financial security then she might just go for it.

It’s a shitty family dynamic but you knew enough beforehand for this not to be a shock. Your H needs to access support to deal with his family dynamic but he also needs to accept that he has choices, not making them is a choice too.

Iwonder08 · 05/06/2022 06:20

My deep sympathy OP, you went extra mile to help your DH and his mother. In his shoes I would do the follwoing:

  1. get her to sign a power of attorney. I would employ all the possible arguments to get her sign it. It would allow to challenge the will on her behalf.
  2. your DH should contact his father and explain that MIL is about file for divorce and is entitled to half of his assets. He should suggest withe immediate change of wills to allocate a significant sum of money for MIL upkeep once he died or do a financial settlement right now( prefferable). However unpleasant, it is the least unpleasant option. She is a horrible woman and unfortunately won't change now. It sounds unlikely that your DH will go no contact, so your only option is to get money from FIL whatever it takes
Lillonely · 05/06/2022 08:04

StageRage · 05/06/2022 05:01

OP: owning a house does not preclude you from Pension Credit.

I’ve looked online and she has to be claiming housing benefit though, claiming isn’t an option as DH refers to that as the most stressful time in his life, having to ferry her around to job centres and classes etc, he nearly lost his job because she won’t take a bus or a taxi.

could she start a new claim after retirement age?

OP posts:
BlossomRussosHatCollection · 05/06/2022 08:19

OP, you don't seem to have listened to what people have told you. As the legal wife, FIL CANNOT cut out MIL. You can't "leave your money to whoever you want" if you have a living spouse. It belongs to the spouse. You can cut your kids out, and you can religiously believe your "second wife" has equal standing all you like. Legally, your estate belongs to the one and only legal spouse you have.

Personally, I'd school FIL on the law of the land he's living in, and make it clear if he dies while still married to MIL his entire estate legally belongs to her. He might divorce her then, and while you'd probably have to coach her through signing the papers and find a lawyer who speaks her language, she'd at least be able to get a chunk of his money then.