Polygamy, first family and financial trouble - need some perspective here

[Lillonely]

Right so I’m going to try and be as a clear as I can be without being massively outing.

DH is from a minority community in the UK. His father has 2 wives. MIL and SMIL. It was some nasty business how it was done, both had no idea. It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal MIL, so please no bigamy Comments. Polygamy is accepted in DHs community. There is a clear 1st and 2nd family situation. DH grew up in squalor and 2nd family grew up with the best of the best. MIL has never worked a day in her life, (she’s a very simple woman, illiterate no English) she claims she couldn’t work, she doesn’t claim or has never claimed because she woildnt ride the bus to get to English classes and job interviews etc and obviously it was during school time/ working hours so DH couldn’t accompany her. From 16 years old DH worked 3 jobs whilst in school to provide for them. he still went to university and got a degree and started working but due to financial burden was racked in debt. House repairs, bills, her glasses, dents treatment, food, new boiler, bathroom, kitchen you name it, DH paid for it. FIL gave them when DH was a child a £15k auction house, so there were A LOT of repairs needed.

he met me, we married. Prior to marriage he was upfront about his debt, because he was in a v bad place and long story short he had to beg FIL to start covering MIL expenses (to be clear it is now religious and cultural obligation to do so especially in a polygamous marriage). We worked out his finances and he’s still paying his way out of debt nearly 10 years later. I’m from another culture and not to go into it because it’s not strictly relevant here but MIL has been quite unkind to me over the years, she is better now that I have children but it’s worth a mention:

it has come out that FIL has purposely cut MIL and DH out of the will. He probably assets included it’s about 300k. DH told MIL and she said she didn’t care it’s DHs responsibility to pay for her to live, that’s why she had him to take care of her and we should sell our house to take care of her because we shouldnt have bought a house. I don’t know where she thinks our 3 kids are supposed to live. He’s her only child.

FIL has had some health scares lately and with the rising cost of everything we’re both worried about this additional financial burden. She’s paid no NI so has no state pension. She has money but won’t spend that to top up NI because she’s saving it for a religious pilgrimage. We have good jobs and we most certainly do not live beyond our means. We live in the most affordable decent area commutable distance from where we work, but also close enough to her because she had a meltdown when she found out we wanted a house. We also have 3 kids and associated childcare and expenses, a 4 bed house, one car, no pets, we do have savings but it’s for our retirement at probably 80 and for overpayments and rainy day funds. We have good jobs like I said, between 85-90 before tax, but the rises in everything are steep. Mortgage looks like it will be going up by £200 a month (no extra borrowing) childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day, we all know about energy and petrol and inflation. Our annual rises didn’t even touch the sides of how high inflation is. We are fairly comfy and definitely aren’t kitted out in designer attire but I do feel loathed to stop the children having any hobbies or sell our house to cover the extra £5/600 for pcm for MIL cost of living, or basically live from paycheque to paycheque and start the cycle of debt, which is what would happen given the rises, which will keep rising. Even selling the house would be daft because what we paid for a 4 bed would get you a 3 bed now because property prices have risen so much.

FIL is a v unkind man who has treated her and DH like dogshit for years, I do genuinely believe the best outcome would be for MIL to file for divorce and then she’d be entitled to half of his assets, even if she just got 75k, it’s something. But she won’t. She’s also not w particularly nice person in truth, a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse has been used against dh over the years.
i cannot move in with her for my mental health so that’s not an option, even if we got on like a house on fire, it’s a v small house. 2 bed, one a small double and the other a single.

what’s the utopia here? I can’t think straight, how do you work through this situation. She won’t work, won’t claim, won’t divorce him, would spend her money on a pilgrimage rather than cost of living and will have no inheritance, it’s just for DH to figure out. DH has spoken to his M and it’s like banging head against a brick wall and frankly the things she is coming out with are repugnant. Like you can’t afford to take care of me, well you should have thought of that before you bought a house you can’t afford’. It’s making us both stressed and me quite angry because I’d never put this on my kids: I’ve got no issue with helping out someone in need or even helping her out a bit but I think we might go under if we took everything on with no other income.

can anyone suggest anything?

So FIL has given her a house and spending money but not repairs or improvements since dh was small, and MIL has not learned English to read or sought work for decades and now you are worried what happens when FIL dies?

When FIL dies (you don’t say how old everyone is so hard to tell how soon you are expecting this) MIL will accept the help of dh to claim benefits and presumably you will help out when she struggles. Seems fairly normal to me.

Sounds as if the mother in law wouldnt be able to claim benefits, its not feasible to try to make a claim without any ability to job search properly, or attend the lessons/workshops.

She sounds as if she thinks its beneath her

The first port of call is for the husband to be able to get some emotional support for the emotional abuse and obligation and blackmail put on him which should free him from his mother.

Yes this, the legal spouse gets at least half - possibly more, it went up recently, by right - he cannot cut her out of it under any circs.

They sound collectedly clueless, so see a solicitor on that, and also ask about the procedure for a divorce.

Do not, under any circumstances sell your house, move in with her, or provide more top up income than you can afford. Your first duty is to your yourself and your children - you have to protect them.

Your DH needs to say to her ‘you need to divorce mum cos that’s how it works here, and have the details ready.’ He needs to repeat this like a mantra. No more discussion. She is manipulative because she’s been powerless and mistreated, but hopefully her conditioning will make her do what her son says if he takes a very clear line.

does it sound normal? If it does then I’m telling it wrong.

he pays the bills directly to the companies and give her £30/40 for food.

she won’t claim now, not after FIL death or not in a month of Sundays. She can’t get to the job centre, doesn’t ‘understand’ how to take a bus

It sounds bloody awful.

She needs to watch any shoe box money, as it will go out of date soon.

She'll have to swap out any paper £5, £10 and £20s at a bank. Pronto

I think you can cut out of your will whoever you chose, you could leave you entire estate to the rspca if you wanted and leave your kids nothing.

he’s talked to her about divorcing him before and she refuses, she doesn’t care she just thinks it’s DHs responsibility to look after her

I just worked out the NI top up and it’s £28k … not a chance can she or We pay that

If she brought up children and she had British citizenship or indefinite leave to remain she should have accrued done ni - I certainly did from claiming child benefit. She also perhaps should seek advice from her community leader (imam if Muslim which I'm guessing from your not so cryptic clues) who might be able to mediate with the h on his obligations.

Would she qualify for Pension credit? (When old enough)
This is not the same as state pension

She’s not worked or claimed employment benefit but she did get child benefit, i didn’t know that counted as an NI contribution.

the leaders are sickening they knew all this abuse was happening… said nothing

The will. You can cut your wife out however she can apply as a dependent to get a fair payment.

Same with any life insurance or pension payments, usually it's discretionary who they are paid too.

However if husband owns most assets jointly with mistresss, they will go direct to mistress on death and not be part of his estate.
So it's going to depend how his assets are held whether she gets anything (via a dependency claim)

Don’t give her anything. She sounds like a horrid woman, willing to exploit her own child for her own financial gain.

She owns the house she lives in so I doubt it….

I’m wondering life time mortgage? But dh has paid for renovations on that house and he’d be losing his money i guess but it’s something

Are MIL and FIL in England? Or Scotland? (or Wales etc)?

It makes a difference to the legal position

I agree with PP about engaging the local imam to lean on FIL. Surely if he doesn't distribute his estate properly then he's bringing shame on his 'second family' as well as himself.

There's helplines for women in her position, I've moved areas so don't have access to the information now but there's support but she needs to request it - unless you can prove she has diminished capacity then you could go to court to take over her affairs.

She should have accrued 1 years ni for every year of child benefit until the youngest child reached 12, so 12 years if only one child. But the rules have been changed over the years and I don't know when that came in, it's worth finding out. Also find out if there's anything else she can claim. Could you not get her to attend a womens group from her language? She might strive to do something then.

England

honeslty the imams know the squalor that dh grew up in, still have a pop at him now for not being close enough to his dad, they said nothing about it, the abuse and how horribly DH was treated all of which is haram but it’s all for show

Nah she wouldn’t go or attend, can’t dial a phone to call a helpline… she doesn’t really want to help herself she thinks it’s for DH to just pay for her to live

How old are they both?

Why isn’t it for dh to manage then? He can be in charge of her finances and claim for her and then give her the money.

Early 60s

But he can’t claim universal credit on her behalf… he could help with the forms sure, but she’d need to go to the job centre and to the English language classes they’d send her too to try and get her into work, there is no way around that. She will only accept been driven from place to place, and taxis would make the claim a waste of time and dh has a full time job, we both do so can’t ferry her to the appointments

Claim for her?? Do you know how the benefit system works?

So they are likely to live another twenty years. I’d organise her son doing her financial stuff for her now. Let her husband keep providing his pin money and claim her benefits for her.

Yes I do and she is illiterate, can’t speak English, unable to take public transport, has never worked, can’t fill out forms….I’m pretty sure your dh could become her deputy for finance with hmrc and sorther money out for her.