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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Polygamy, first family and financial trouble - need some perspective here

339 replies

Lillonely · 04/06/2022 21:17

Right so I’m going to try and be as a clear as I can be without being massively outing.

DH is from a minority community in the UK. His father has 2 wives. MIL and SMIL. It was some nasty business how it was done, both had no idea. It is not bigamy because only one marriage is legal MIL, so please no bigamy Comments. Polygamy is accepted in DHs community. There is a clear 1st and 2nd family situation. DH grew up in squalor and 2nd family grew up with the best of the best. MIL has never worked a day in her life, (she’s a very simple woman, illiterate no English) she claims she couldn’t work, she doesn’t claim or has never claimed because she woildnt ride the bus to get to English classes and job interviews etc and obviously it was during school time/ working hours so DH couldn’t accompany her. From 16 years old DH worked 3 jobs whilst in school to provide for them. he still went to university and got a degree and started working but due to financial burden was racked in debt. House repairs, bills, her glasses, dents treatment, food, new boiler, bathroom, kitchen you name it, DH paid for it. FIL gave them when DH was a child a £15k auction house, so there were A LOT of repairs needed.

he met me, we married. Prior to marriage he was upfront about his debt, because he was in a v bad place and long story short he had to beg FIL to start covering MIL expenses (to be clear it is now religious and cultural obligation to do so especially in a polygamous marriage). We worked out his finances and he’s still paying his way out of debt nearly 10 years later. I’m from another culture and not to go into it because it’s not strictly relevant here but MIL has been quite unkind to me over the years, she is better now that I have children but it’s worth a mention:

it has come out that FIL has purposely cut MIL and DH out of the will. He probably assets included it’s about 300k. DH told MIL and she said she didn’t care it’s DHs responsibility to pay for her to live, that’s why she had him to take care of her and we should sell our house to take care of her because we shouldnt have bought a house. I don’t know where she thinks our 3 kids are supposed to live. He’s her only child.

FIL has had some health scares lately and with the rising cost of everything we’re both worried about this additional financial burden. She’s paid no NI so has no state pension. She has money but won’t spend that to top up NI because she’s saving it for a religious pilgrimage. We have good jobs and we most certainly do not live beyond our means. We live in the most affordable decent area commutable distance from where we work, but also close enough to her because she had a meltdown when she found out we wanted a house. We also have 3 kids and associated childcare and expenses, a 4 bed house, one car, no pets, we do have savings but it’s for our retirement at probably 80 and for overpayments and rainy day funds. We have good jobs like I said, between 85-90 before tax, but the rises in everything are steep. Mortgage looks like it will be going up by £200 a month (no extra borrowing) childcare has gone up by £7 per child per day, we all know about energy and petrol and inflation. Our annual rises didn’t even touch the sides of how high inflation is. We are fairly comfy and definitely aren’t kitted out in designer attire but I do feel loathed to stop the children having any hobbies or sell our house to cover the extra £5/600 for pcm for MIL cost of living, or basically live from paycheque to paycheque and start the cycle of debt, which is what would happen given the rises, which will keep rising. Even selling the house would be daft because what we paid for a 4 bed would get you a 3 bed now because property prices have risen so much.

FIL is a v unkind man who has treated her and DH like dogshit for years, I do genuinely believe the best outcome would be for MIL to file for divorce and then she’d be entitled to half of his assets, even if she just got 75k, it’s something. But she won’t. She’s also not w particularly nice person in truth, a lot of emotional manipulation and abuse has been used against dh over the years.
i cannot move in with her for my mental health so that’s not an option, even if we got on like a house on fire, it’s a v small house. 2 bed, one a small double and the other a single.

what’s the utopia here? I can’t think straight, how do you work through this situation. She won’t work, won’t claim, won’t divorce him, would spend her money on a pilgrimage rather than cost of living and will have no inheritance, it’s just for DH to figure out. DH has spoken to his M and it’s like banging head against a brick wall and frankly the things she is coming out with are repugnant. Like you can’t afford to take care of me, well you should have thought of that before you bought a house you can’t afford’. It’s making us both stressed and me quite angry because I’d never put this on my kids: I’ve got no issue with helping out someone in need or even helping her out a bit but I think we might go under if we took everything on with no other income.

can anyone suggest anything?

OP posts:
Lillonely · 10/06/2022 12:47

MIL is 100% his legal wife on paper, for a fact. I’ve seen their marriage certificate, i has to make a copy of it to get it translated for something. That’s how she came here, as his legal wife and how she got ILTR. There is 0 doubt about this. Wife 2 just has a nikah. MIL and FIL did get married abroad but it is a registered civil marriage.

a lot of mosques now in the UK will only do a nikah alongside a civil marriage but there are a few that still do just the nikah.

she would be entitled to his pension I believe if she survives him, although I can imagine the shit show that will be to obtain death certificate and make the claim from dwp, SMIL will be a complete blocker for that but that’s tomorrows problem.

Also her issues definitely are not menopause related, this has always been the case in one way or another

OP posts:
HotWashCycle · 10/06/2022 14:05

Anyone can get a copy of a death certificate, and if your Mil (his legal wife) survives her husband she will be entitled to his state pension. What his "other woman" thinks about it is neither here nor there. The DWP will pay the legal widow. Perhaps best to check with DWP now that he has not given his second "wife"'s name as his real wife. That could avoid problems later.

Lillonely · 10/06/2022 14:18

HotWashCycle · 10/06/2022 14:05

Anyone can get a copy of a death certificate, and if your Mil (his legal wife) survives her husband she will be entitled to his state pension. What his "other woman" thinks about it is neither here nor there. The DWP will pay the legal widow. Perhaps best to check with DWP now that he has not given his second "wife"'s name as his real wife. That could avoid problems later.

It was a right ball ache for my DGM when she was trying to do it, but can’t recall why… it’s just a shit show isn’t it…. It’s making me a very angry snappy person

OP posts:
SlatsandFlaps · 10/06/2022 16:26

Absolutely batshit situation. I'd RUN!

oviraptor21 · 11/06/2022 11:41

Entitlement to spouse's state pension may not be relevant if neither party reached state pension age before 2016.
www.gov.uk/death-spouse-benefits-tax-pension/pensions

oviraptor21 · 11/06/2022 11:44

Are there two threads on this?
Does MN have the facility to merge them?

lemonsorbetinthesun · 13/06/2022 18:15

Why can’t she sell and downsize and keep the equity?

Lillonely · 13/06/2022 20:33

@lemonsorbetinthesun (great UN btw could go for one of those right now) the amount the house would get on the market is less than you could get a habitable 1 bed flat, it’s not in good condition; it needs a new roof, windows, kitchen, bathroom and plastering and then there’s cosmetic stuff to make it palatable and no one has that money to sink into it. DH arrange FIL to do it a few years back and pay, job all quoted and booked and MIL sent the builders away, didn’t want to take FIL money (Aka she wanted to martyr herself) now DH has said, fine that was your choice to send them away when I arranged it all… live with the consequences

OP posts:
ApplesandBunions · 13/06/2022 20:35

How did the chat between DH and FIL over the weekend go OP?

Lillonely · 13/06/2022 20:39

If anyone is interested in an update

FIL tried to get DH to pay, even asking for a breakdown of his finances to prove it (CF to the max). DH refused to cave so FIL conceded he has to find a way to make it work and he’ll talk to MIL that she needs to sign on to cover some of the cost herself… I said to DH he need to get fucking real, his mum has got people bending over backwards trying to find solutions for her, she can make some effort, max it will mean is English classes twice a week… it will do her good.

thanks to all the advice on the thread DH will get LOA and I think there is something to do with capacity as well, as he was looking on the gov website and it said things about being able to read signs etc none of which she can do. DH will gain authority to talk about NI too, can’t recall how to do this but he will. We can’t do it online as she’s not a British passport holder, i may well have to be her on the phone to give him authority, as she was an idiot about it before. We also know about pension credit:

thanks everyone (except the person who said I should think of her as a 4th child and use this opportunity to get a promotion and pay for her… That was a douche bag thing to advise)

OP posts:
ApplesandBunions · 13/06/2022 20:42

FIL tried to get DH to pay, even asking for a breakdown of his finances to prove it (CF to the max). DH refused to cave so FIL conceded he has to find a way to make it work and he’ll talk to MIL that she needs to sign on to cover some of the cost herself…

Do they both understand that if MIL does sign on, in all probability she'll be found some kind of job, in this market?

Lillonely · 13/06/2022 23:04

ApplesandBunions · 13/06/2022 20:42

FIL tried to get DH to pay, even asking for a breakdown of his finances to prove it (CF to the max). DH refused to cave so FIL conceded he has to find a way to make it work and he’ll talk to MIL that she needs to sign on to cover some of the cost herself…

Do they both understand that if MIL does sign on, in all probability she'll be found some kind of job, in this market?

She can’t speak a word of English, read or write, count, type, use a phone, computer, you name it. They’ll send her to English classes first, which if you ask me is a bloody fantastic idea

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 13/06/2022 23:08

Sounds like FIL is at least realising he can’t just wash his hands of her. Thanks for updating.

Lillonely · 13/06/2022 23:13

Dixiechickonhols · 13/06/2022 23:08

Sounds like FIL is at least realising he can’t just wash his hands of her. Thanks for updating.

He tried though… his second suggestion was to just send her back to Pakistan (after us paying)… what a guy

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