What are the chances I imagined this and what would you do..?

[SpottyDress]

I've been with my boyfriend coming up for a year. He's late 50s and I'm mid 40s. We've known each other for a few years and we play in a band together.

We're both invested in the relationship. I don't have any doubts about that. We don't live together but he's shown that he is committed to me from day one really. I've glfeltnreaply safe and secure throughout in a way I never have done before.

And then last night...

We were sitting on the sofa watching TV and his phone went off. We were sitting really close together and, when he opened WhatsApp to read the message, I just glanced over and saw the list. I wasn't looking for anything, I've never had any reason to doubt him. The names on the list are always ones I recognise, he's not secretive with his phone - I know the pass code had have never felt cause or reason to look at it. I'm not sure I could tbh.

Anyway, the name about fourth down was one I didn't recognise which caught my eye. It was a 'young' woman's name. Think something like 'Bethany'. Underneath, I caught the first (only?) word of the message 'Beautiful'.

I didn't say anything and our evening continued. We both left the room at various points and, later, when he picked up another message again, it had gone.

I've started to doubt myself since - did I imagine it? How would I even bring it up? If the 'Beautiful' comment had been under a name I recognised, tbh, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.

It's more that it's a younger woman's name and that I didn't recognise it. I know all his friends, he's very open about things so you can see why I think this is 'odd'.

What are the chances I imagined it (I read the name 3 or 4 times so I don't think I did)? What are the chances it's innocent?

If it was any other boyfriend, I'd have ended the relationship at this stage. I wouldn't even have had a conversation about it. I know that with no message, I can't prove it was there. He can't prove it was innocent because it no longer exists and I'd have said that to anyone else. But because of the impact on the band if we split up (I'd leave), I feel I need to he more certain.

Agree with bubblesbubbles11

Couldn’t disagree with this more -

“Throwing away her relationship is an overreaction probably based on the deep scars of her past that she is applying to the present.”

This is the type of thinking that has previously sane and trusting women turning the behaviour of others’ round onto themselves, doing half the work of a liar for him and trying to rationalise their partners’ poor behaviour til they drive themselves mad.

(On the other hand v. envious of anyone whose relationship history allows them this deep a sense of security! So genuinely bravo for that, you’re really fortunate)

Of course, it is right to ask oneself if it’s an overreaction etc initially. Sometimes the answer to that is “yes, it might be”. But if the person who you trust most doesn’t bother to understand and reassure etc when you react (or even overreact) to an event, then who cares? The “overreaction” ultimately becomes one, not to the inciting incident itself, but to the partners’ response. So it isn’t really an overreaction at all, but just a pretty typical reaction to what he is doing (eg. gaslighting)

And for what it’s worth my ex was not sexting or sharing or receiving nude photos - there was nothing overtly sexual going on.

But he was certainly consistently lying by omission, not protecting our relationship and habitually forming flirtatious relationships with other women and getting into mutually compulsively messaging with them. Until he moved in and began to display his hurtful behaviour in other ways as well, I wouldn’t have had a clue this was going on.

As far as he was concerned these were only friends and meant nothing to him. Quite clearly they would not have thought, from his messages and their frequency, that they meant nothing to him. Quite clearly he was enjoying the attention. Quite clearly part of the enjoyment was the secrecy.

There is a world of grey out there. I’d say the unifying indicator of poor and potentially hurtful behaviour is not the specifics, but the response to being questioned. There are posters here who may not have remembered a message or name, (we are only human) but at least tried to figure it out with and for their partner, and over time not just for two mins.
Instant denial = massive red flag.

The response I got when I asked if there was anything I should be concerned about was:

1. ”don’t be absurd, I didn’t x, y, z - there’s nothing to know, there’s nothing going on”.
2. ”you’re crazy/being ridiculous/have so much baggage/I didn’t think you were a jealous person”.
3. “I love you, of course there’s nothing to worry about, why would I be here if I didn’t love you, I want to be with YOU”

Even when I had tangible proof everything wasn’t ok, I was still being told I was the only person in the world who would be upset in this situation, and that he wasn’t doing anything wrong because “they are only friends”.

It doesn’t sound to me as though OP has high tolerance for being treated like crap and lied to - and nor should she. She sounds very brave.

It also doesn’t sound to me as though the relationship is so far progressed (joint home/mortgage/children) that it’s worth seriously risking her emotional well-being.

Would love nothing more than to hear that Bethany is a ring designer and sent a picture of the engagement ring he has secretly acquired for OP! That would be fantastic. But unless he gets the idea pretty fast that the cover up (even if it’s well intended) isn’t worth the damage it’s doing her, and he finds a way to genuinely listen to her concerns and reassure her in a way that is meaningful to OP, then he’s probably just not the guy he seemed…

Men like this can be excellent at romance, and wonderful at manipulation. Getting dragged into that maelstrom can be very emotionally damaging, and lots of discussion can just take you further from your initial and intuitive sense of the situation.

We spend a lot of time thinking about things when we should trust our guts. I wish I had.

I hate to even suggest this, given the simplest explanation is usually the best, but like a PP situation, is it possible he is trying to buy you a special present for a special occasion and has been communicating with the vendor via Whatsapp, then when you saw. Are there any special dates coming up for the two of you?

Never thought of that you may be right. If so sorry for the message I posted earlier

You write so eloquently and everything you say is sadly so familiar. Also hoping for the best possible outcome here x

Thank you. A friend came over for dinner this evening. He said pretty much everything everyone here has said in terms of it being the deletion and the denial that were most concerning.

He also agreed that we might just have very different and incompatible boundaries around what is acceptable.

For example, I'd it had been a friend's name inrecog ised saying 'beautiful', I wouldn't have even questioned it. But I know some women would find that unacceptable in a relationship. But that's because people have different boundaries.

I don't think he's actually seeing someone else for a second but do I think it could be a flirtation that's crossing boundaries - yes, quite possibly. But unless he's honest, I won't know.

It's the denial that is most concerning for me. I value honesty and trust above everything else. I'm sure I sometimes make mistakes but I aim to act with integrity at all times. And I find that to be a rare quality in others.

He might think it's all OK if nothing physical happens. That might be his boundary. It's not mine.

Spotty, the bottom line is (1) you know what you saw and (2) your BF is gaslighting you by denying the existence of the Bethany message.

You gave him the opportunity to be honest. He chose deception and disregard over truth and respect.

It’s such a terrible feeling to discover an imbalance of power in a cherished relationship.

How do we get from "Bethany" to assuming it is a young woman? I went to school with a Bethan and a Bethany, and I am decidedly not young. And from "Beautiful" to assuming it's romantic or sexual? (Do young women, or any women, often call a man in his 50s "Beautiful" like that, if it IS romantic or sexual?) I don't think you imagined it, and I don't think it'd be wrong to ask "who is Bethany?" but I do think you are imagining things that aren't that likely to be the case, on the evidence so far. Agree with the person who was saying, by example of the friend doing up a car, that it's more likely to be a comment on something (and that could be a photo, a suggestion, a witty pun, whatever).

Having now seen the latest bit about the denial, that isn't at all good. But, given that you are perhaps someone who tends to jump to conclusions, that denial might be because of that - an inadvised attempt at avoiding what's inevitably going to come next whether it's reasonable of you or not. He's not necessarily in the right here but I still think it's a leap to think that the denial means he's definitely up to something with Bethany.

The thing is, it's not just about different boundaries or why wouldn't he have been honest about what the message was? He clearly knows he's crossed a line as he's tried to hide it and deny.

Well that's it isn't it?

As for all those insisting it could have been completely innocent- a comment about a car, a kitten etc, my friend last night said the exact same thing. But was also unable to explain why, if it were innocent, he felt the best course of action would be to delete and deny.

I don't jump to conclusions but neither will I try to talk myself into believing something that quite patently isn't true.

The conversation this evening will be a calm one. Neither of us is prone to emotional outbursts. I even understand that people might lie in panic initially - even if something is innocent if they perceive it could be misinterpreted.

But only one of us can be right - there either was a message or there wasn't. I'm not prone to imagining things and I saw it. So he has the opportunity to either be honest about it or to double down on lying about it.

The bottom line is, as I explained to my friend last night, I could quite easily pretend that I didn't see it and carry on as normal but then, as others have said, everytime his phone pinged, I'd wonder who it was; everytime he went out or wasn't with me, I'd wonder who he's with or who he's talking to and that's just not me. Every time he told he loves me I'd remember it. Everytime I had a question, I'd wonder if he was being honest with me. I don't want to live like that for the rest of my life.

And, more than that, I'd have lied to myself that I was ok with it when I wasn't. I'd know that I'd accepted something I knew wasn't true.

I think you're being really pragmatic OP, even if your heart is breaking. I hope you get some genuinely honest answers tonight so you can decide the best way forward based on the truth, and not just guesses. I think not actually knowing is almost worse than just hearing it how it is. I hope he has the courage to be frank with you, and doesn't double down on the lies. The lies are infuriating. I think starting out by reassuring him that you're not going to think worse of him if he admits that he panicked and lied is a good way to open things up. It lays the groundwork for him to come clean rather than him feeling as if he has no option but to sustain a lie to save face.

I hope you feel able to come back and update us on how it went but completely understandable if not - sending lots of love your way.

When I saw it had gone, my first thought was perhaps I imagined it

But really, what are the chances of that. Especially as I looked at it after times while we were sitting there because it was so unexpected and because in those few seconds, I was trying to make sense of it amd work out if I should just say something there and then. That would have been a whole lot of imagining.

I still feel numb at the moment.

A bit sad, a bit of disbelief, a bit of disappointment but I haven't fully processed anything. Because I don't know what I'm processing.

I'm struggling to reconcile who he has been with me with someone who would do something against me. Or with disregard for me.

But I don't want to be one of the women posting back on here in 3 years time when we're living together and with lives entwined because I've discovered something huge and be saying, "It's always been perfect apart from that one time 3 years ago when..." because people would, rightly, be saying I should have got out at the first signs. And I'm one of the people who says that.

I would be utterly heartbroken end it though though. It's why I'd have to leave the band. I couldn't spend every week with him. I'd never want to see him again. It would hurt too much. I'd hate to do it. I'd be letting other people down and giving up something that I love but I've also made peace with that too.

I genuinely think there's a chance that it's nothing too terrible - but maybe slightly iffy and he thought best delete it, just to be safe. Maybe a text that was slightly too flirtatious but nothing that you probably wouldn't have been able to move past. But he panicked and lied when caught out and now doesn't know how to back down.

I think that's why encouraging him to tell the truth and spelling it out that you aren't going to give him a hard time for lying - you just want to know the truth now. The full truth. Whatever that is. And that if he doesn't come clean you WILL assume the worst and that's it.

It's slightly weird that he's not trying harder to convince you but maybe embarrassment? He knows he's lied and doesn't know how to handle it.

I don't know, I'm just throwing out possibilities - you know him, and I think gut instinct is rarely wrong.

I think there's always the chance to get past things if someone makes a mistake, but if you don't know, you'll always wonder and that will kill the essence of your relationship. If he doesn't tell you the truth, then your relationship will be over even if you don't split up. I really hope he's brave enough to own up so you can either get closure or decide whether you want to stay with him. Would be a huge shame for this to end just because he's too embarrassed to admit what he's done.

Bloody men!

I suppose I'm in shock. We both believed that this was it.

That's why, I guess, I'm holding onto it being a difference in boundaries that might be resolvable rather something worse. That's the best I can come up with at the moment.

That is exactly what I think it is, tbh.

The only other thing I think it could be is maybe he's bought photos... but would someone he was buying photos of be sending them via WhatsApp? I don't know.

But I think your suggested approach is pretty much what I'd decided to do anyway. So thank you for suggesting it.

It's slightly weird that he's not trying harder to convince you but maybe embarrassment? He knows he's lied and doesn't know how to handle it.

He's doing a lot in terms of telling me how he feels about me and us. But he's stuck to 'it didn't happen' re the message. Maybe he feels least said, soonest mended?

Why do some men (and women) do this?? Lie, outright to your face, as if you are some kind of dimwit??? It gives me the rage .
i agree with all pps, deleting it is weird and lying about it is just fucking rude.
I also agree about boundaries. Unfortunately IME, lots of men seem able to convince themselves if they aren’t actually, physically shagging someone, it’s ok. Although, funnily enough, if their DW was doing it, it wouldn’t be ok at all. Selfish, entitled tossers. I really hope he can give you some kind of plausible explanation (can WhatsApp messages be restored?) but if not, trust your gut op and throw this one back. Lying is a dealbreaker for you (quite rightly!) so stick to your boundaries.

Just playing devil’s advocate….my OH has a shocking memory, and can argue black is white that something wasn’t there/didn’t happen etc. because he forgotten. I have done the same. Not everyone has a great memory, and you have said yours is awesome.

If he denies it again, ask to check deleted/archived messages. Say how distressed it’s making you and what is on the line. At this point, his reaction will tell you what you need to know

I know he’s deleted the message, but is Bethany still in his contacts?

I agree with swayingpalmtrees x

I'm really hoping this too OP.

If he's honest and it's something that's not too far beyond your boundaries then you might be able to get past it. It all comes down to whether he's willing to be honest and how bad the truth actually is in your eyes

Even if it were innocent, that would make deleting it and then denying it even more unfathomable. Why wpuld he put us both through days or upset and torment and risk losing someone he loves because someone sent him a photo of a cat?

No idea! I'd have had to check his phone for that and, tbh, I'm not going to do that either.

If I had to go down the route of checking phones at this stage I'd the relationship, it would be over anyway in my eyes.

I've never checked anyone's phone. And I'm not going to be driven to it now.