AIBU Would you be worried about this friendship?

[Lucyofthemichealcar]

Background:
Married for 11 years and together for 17.
H very outgoing, fun loving and flirty but never had concerns. Similar personality to me, so a bit of flirty banter is fine so long as we both respect the line.
Since married neither or us go out as much and since kids deffo not.
Both of us have male and female friends. Being friendly with a woman doesn't bother me but the dynamic between these two has always seemed different but cannot put finger on it.

H and his work friend.
I would say she definitely fits into my H's 'type'. They teach together. They are in different departments so it does not sound as if they speak every day or every week but they do seem to catch up face to face at lunch or over messenger if it has been a few weeks. She goes back to the US every summer and as far as I know they go weeks then with no communication so they are not always in each others pockets but it seems in the school they are very much viewed as a pair, so get paired up to chaperone school events and over the years they have organised several trips together as they both say if they are stuck with colleagues for a week it needs to be someone they get on with and like and apparently because they trust each other to organise and not mess things up when carting around 50 odd teenagers. Looked at messages from her when I was in the throes of pregnant paranoia and the chat is friendly but mundane. Not even flirtatious. She asks after me and H about her partner. The tone is how he talks to all his other friends. We have had her round for dinner and she has also done the same and we have went for drinks together. All very nice and above board. Done the odd favour like making us a whole load of meals when our kitchen was getting renovated and doing a food shop when we had covid or helping with looking after cat when we were away but I just can't shake a feeling she does it all to look good to H. She is very American and brings round baking, goes all out at christmas and since I have known her has always given me and the kids gifts (all our birthdays are in Late Nov/Dec so they are birthday/xmas gifts). Her and H also always exchange birthday gifts but they are stupid cheap items as part of a running joke from work. She seems keen to be friends with me too and suggested going for a wine or doing a gym class but as I said something always seems off and never felt entirely comfortable around her in the 9 years her and H have been friendly.
She has a BF of 12 years but they have never married and don't cohabit which seems strange.

Why am I concerned?
Aside from being pregnant and crying at the drop of a hat, what has made me question it all is that three weeks ago my H stayed at her house overnight. She got a phonecall at work to say her mum had passed back in the states. Her partner was away on business and she had a meltdown at work. H brought her back to ours but she said she wanted to be at home, pack and get the first flight home. H took her back to her place. He came back after dropping her off and asked me if I minded him staying to keep an eye but i think he had pretty much made up his mind while I said yes or not. He stayed the night in her spare room and then drove her to the airport at 3am. At the time I did feel like she could have reChed out to other friends but i suppose if that was me I would be all over the place too. She and her BF came by a few days ago with a restaurant voucher for the two of us to say thank you for being there for us. We have two kids and I am seven months pregnant with our third. Is it hormones or should I be worried?

H sensed I wasn't okay when he came back after dropping her off and I said how I felt and he said there was and never had been anything between them that I could check through messages etc if it put my mind at ease but I don't know. Have asked friends in the past and they have said it is a bit of an unusal one but probably because as a society we generally are uspicious of male female friendships unless they have been sustained through childhood and adolescence.

AIBU?

I have a lot more make friends than female and a few I'm very close to.

If it was a problem it would affect my relationship with DH as many I had before even meeting him.

It's who I am and it's how it's always been.

I would be slightly more suspicious if he had a close female friend only as he's never had any previously but if he had that would've been fine too.

I do understand how hormones canmake you feel all sorts of negative emotions and it may very well be you envy that alone time they get together.

It's usually obvious that someone's husband is having an affair on this site. This is not one of those times. She sounds like a friend and that's it.

It's your hormones talking, that's all. As someone else said, you're probably feeling unattractive compared to how you would normally and feel she is a threat.

What you said about her being dramatic with the card etc was harsh though. She was thanking your families support during a difficult time for her.

Why would she want to shag your bloke after her mum died?!?! You're blaming pregnancy but you sound ridiculous and mean. Seriously, no.

Seems I am being the bitch here then. My choice of words about her card were perhaps not the best. I know it was a horrible day for her but she just seems like one of those people that has one drama after another, her dad was going through cancer, her BF was having unexplained fits, she had a healthscare. After her mum died her dad even emailed my H and thanked him for being such a good friend to his daughter. Surely that is a bit much! Maybe my H only tells me the bad stuff so it seems like it but I feel she feeds off sympathy. I'm venting now but as I said there is something that feels off. She is very friendly towards me and tries to include me but I do feel it is very much to seem good to my H vs. actually wanting to befriend me. Some of her actions have been too friendly and generous for someone who barely knows me which turns the suspicious dial up e.g. She got me a pregnancy spa voucher when I was pregnant with DS2 as H had helped her out last minute on a school trip and she only got told by him at the end of the weekend I was 5mths pregnant ( tbf we weren't telling anyone as i had had 2 miscareiages previously) and she felt bad to have taken him away from me for the weekend. It seemed an excessive gesture when she got him nothing to say thanks aside from a bottle of wine. H and her do not hang around with each other outside of work alone aside from bumping into each other and chatting but he has in the past went to help her with the odd thing if her BF has been out of town on business. It would appear he is her closest male friend in the area and she has in the past text and asked questions about DIY or cars when there is a wonderful thing called Google. I do think she is pretty but I also think I am comparable look wise and pregnancy aside slimmer and fitter so I am not jealous in that sense. I guess it is a feeling she is always there in the background being mother Theresa. She offers to help out at any given time and back at christmas when family was staying at Xmas she offered her house as she was going away home. My MIL took her up on that once a few years ago and then reciprocated the offer if she was ever visiting Wales and she actually drop by their house for a cup of tea when she was in Wales which I felt was so forward and not needed. Like I said probably just venting now.
I mentioned at the beginning when they became friends that I thought she fancied him and to watch out and my husband brushed it off, every now and then I raise it in a jokey way but he just looks at me like I'm crazy, shakes his head and changes the topic. I suppose I just don't like that he has a close female friend that isn't part of our social group as all his other female friends are somewhat my friends too.

"just seems like one of those people that has one drama after another, her dad was going through cancer, her BF was having unexplained fits, she had a healthscare. After her mum died her dad even emailed my H and thanked him for being such a good friend to his daughter. Surely that is a bit much! "

Really @Lucyofthemichealcar you think it's drama to gave such terrible heartache in life. Drama is when someone manufactures issues. Not dealing with real godawful shit.

You've clearly never had grief or heartache in your life.

You sound like bloody hard work.

As for her giving you a spa voucher because she had inadvertently caused you to be alone at 5mths pregnant is bloody thoughtful & with her dads card, one can see where she gets her thoughtfulness from.

No wonder your husband likes her, she sounds bloody lovely.

I don't think your husband or his friend has done a thing wrong, but with your attitude who the hell could blame him if he in the future finds himself more attracted to a half decent thoughtful person,

Rather than a jealous snarky spoilt wee girl.

(However more fit/slim/pretty you find yourself - character counts)

you don’t like that he has a female friend who isn’t part of your social group - but you rebuff her efforts to be friends with you and are rude and ungrateful about her kind gestures. Why not actually make an effort to get to know her so she can become part of your social group? With every post you sound increasingly bitter and nasty, she sounds like a genuine, thoughtful person. You’re really not painting yourself in a good light here or to your husband.

I am always very pleasant to her and thank her for anything she does or gives us. Being so friendly and accepting though is very tiresome when you just want someone to push off. I am just being totally honest here about how I feel. I would not say most of this to my husband either. However It is not very nice having some of you tell me I am horrible, snarky or it would be my fault if my husband leaves me especially when I am this pregnant. I understand I may be feeling over sensitive. It has been a tough pregnancy. This one was not planned and both husband and I are a bit worried about being able to afford maintain lifestyle with this one. Deep down I am just terrified that he might leave me for her though I have no reason to feel that.
I'm sure many of you would feel the same way if it was actually happening to you and you were feeling your husband was not giving you the attention you deserve as his wife and mother of his children while this 'lovely' intelligent friendly woman dotes on him and laps up his attention. If she was so great why has her BF of 12 years not married her or living with her. Its why it feels so off that a lot of it is an act.

If she was so great why has her BF of 12 years not married her or living with her. Its why it feels so off that a lot of it is an act.

If you're so great why should your husband rather be around her? Why are youposting worried he'll leave?

You are not serious.

I also have experienced grief and heartache. Close family members dying or being very ill, miscarriages. However the person I always relied on was my husband, not friends, siblings and certainly not other people's husbands. Even when I found out my gran ( like a mother to me)was dying I waited for my husband to come back from work to take me to her than go with a friend who offered to take me. If my husband can't do it, I get on with it myself. Maybe I am far more self reliant than she is and don't expect others, except my partner to help.

@meloonhead I don't actually think my husband will leave but a marriage is never 100% guaranteed and it is probably that stupid stay awake fear that we all have deep deep down.
You are also being rather mean by saying my husband would rather be around her. I never said that. I just don't feel right about it and wanted to vent and know others thoughts.

So what exactly do you want from your DH OP?

I was the one who said the way you describe her was horrible on page 2 and now you have done more updates and its just more of the same. Listing out the nice thoughtful things she has done and expecting people to think she is a bitch only doing it to get at your husband :/

You need to get to grips with this, especially with your update about financial worries, that's more likely to wreck your relationship than your husbands friend. Some couples therapy perhaps?

She sounds very demonstrative and maybe a bit much but actually quite lovely.

She's consistently being considerate towards you and trying to include you.

She probably knows some partners might be a bit put out by this friendship so she's being respectful of that.

You have every right to your feelings @Lucyofthemichealcar but honestly you are coming across as mean and unpleasant in your later posts. Don't let this make you judgmental and unkind.

OP, always bear in mind that half of MN don't open the door unless they're expecting someone or answer their own phones, and the thought that they would be happy if their husband had a friend like this is absolutely laughable.

You’re being unreasonable to think people should only rely on their partner. When I was single, I had a traumatic event happen and the person who helped me was a long standing male friend who has a partner. When I’ve been in relationships, I’ve cancelled on my partner to help a friend in need. When I was having severe mental health issues and single, it was friends who kept me going.

as for “if she’s so great why doesn’t her bf live with her”, you sound about 14. Maybe she’s happy living alone and being self-sufficient and doesn’t want to marry or move him in. I currently have a delightful boyfriend, undoubtedly the best, kindest and most gentle and loving soul I’ve ever dated, and I still have absolutely zero desire to ever marry him because I don’t want to get married. Living together I’m in no hurry to do either. Not everyone has to conform to a template.

it sounds like this is more about your own insecurities that you haven’t had friends pull all the stops out for you when you needed them, and you’re jealous that your husband is being a good friend to this woman when you think he should preserve all that for you. It’s a you problem. If you actually took your head out your arse and hung out with her and got to know her, maybe she’d become the kind of supportive close friend you lacked in the past, although if your attitude here is any way representative of how you behave in real life I’m not surprised you haven’t got many people queuing up to support you.

It sounds like your husband is an honest person. The fact he offered you to check through messages is pretty big. Sometimes it’s wise to listen to our gut. Maybe you need to think what it is about her. As her mum had just died I think he was being a friend. You are pregnant and will feel emotional. I’m sure many people would feel paranoid in your situation with the staying over. As long as it was a one off I think I could handle it. My husband has a female friend that I have no worries about what so ever. However she is a long term friend. If a newer female friend appears I’m always more cautious.

OP .... You say they don't even try see each other out of work, but it's too reliant. Honestly sounds like normal good 'work' friend relationship to me, and funny understand how you can think it's too much of they don't even socialise outside of work. Your posts say far more about you than her or your DH. Honestly, you sound cold, paranoid, controlling and frankly not very nice.

Argh too many typos. Sorry.

Yes, I am on call to my friends 24/7. I know a lot of Mumsnet would think that's weird and I should grow up but I have a handful of friends I would drop everything for and drive to the airport with at 3am. Even if my (fictional) wife was pregnant.

Recently when my cat went missing a male friend came and helped me search at 7 in the morning, the idea that his wife would think I'm being 'dramatic' is kind of galling although this thread is making me rethink that now.

I initially thought it all sounded very innocent but the updates where she has gone from just being a good work friend to hanging out with your MIL are weird....obviously her prominence in your life is increasing so it's sensible to question it.

I do know a lot of women who are incredibly helpless, and dependent on men and it always grates - because they never seem to rely on other women the same way. I think you're not wrong in worrying how much she will intrude on your life (I have a thread running where my DP had a friend like this who constantly needed him and now we can't get rid of her - mine is a lot worse than yours tbf). The only person who can deal with this is your DH and you should be honest - not that you think he'll run off with her, but that you don't think it healthy she's SO reliant on him when he has kids and a wife and limited time. He can't be a hero to everyone. And needs to manage expectations now that wife/kids come first so she doesn't use him as a surrogate partner.

Always trust your instincts. When you're pregnant I believe your nesting protective hormones kick in and you sense a threat to the nest. It's human instinct so don't ignore it. He shouldn't be dismissing your concerns or looking at you like you're mad. I'm sure he would mind very much if an attractive man was constantly requiring support from you.

I'm sorry you've had a tough pregnancy OP. It does sound like you might be displacing some of those feelings onto this situation?

You all make valid points.
I don't know what it is about her. Off the top of my head the following;
Husband has a few friends at work but she is the closest.
They always get paired up together at work which makes me feel like in work they are viewed as a couple and perhaps for good reason.
When they were on a school trip he caught up with some friends from when he lived abroad who also happened to be in the same town on his evening off and introduced them to her. I haven't even met them but she hit it off with them and they are now friends on social media which seems a bit much after spending just a few hours together. H said this friend of his was moving to the state she is from but I don't buy it. Seems like another attempt to get in with H's friends.
We met his pupils once and they seemed disappointed I was his wife. Apparently kids at school 'ship' them. A mutual friend whose DD goes to the school he teaches at told me this years ago.
We bumped into parents of kids after a trip and the mum said H and the woman friend from work were now being touted as mum and dad goals. Which seems very disrespectful to say to me about my husband and another woman.
Stuff like that makes me think they are closer than he lets on or they take advantage of being away together.
Surely they should make it abundantly clear to their pupils they are not a couple and he is married. I also do not remember at school speaking so informally about or to my teachers.
She bought him two books once as an excessive thank you for something or other that really did not need that type of thankyou, I had already bought him one of them but he did not return it to her or exchange it and he seemed very touched she had remembered the book when he didn't seem that thankful when I remembered the other book he liked. Also the presumption that he has time to read these non fiction style of books when half the time he watches sports or reads crap sports biographies almost feels like she has this idealised view of him or is trying to mould him to her ideal.
She frankly seems too nice. I know you all have your thoughts on that but it feels contrived.
The generosity seems forced.
H helps her more than I think he should.
Maybe I am too traditional but I don't understand why she is not married especially as she says she would like to get married and have kids.
She spends weeks not seeing her BF and it seems unbothered by it. On most occassions when she invites us he has not been there when seems strange to me.
I'm sure all this will be picked to death but that's how I feel.

God forbid, a nice woman who doesn’t live her life according to societal expectations or hanging off a man. Are you threatened by the fact she’s confident and happy in her own company and doesn’t need her boyfriend around? I’ve just booked to go and visit a male friend, alone, in Canada for a week. I don’t need or want my boyfriend to come with me, it’s my time to catch up with a friend I haven’t seen for a while.

as for the rest… kids say stupid things. There were rumours going around about teachers dating when I was at school. The more you say the more it sounds like you’re bitter because you’re insecure. If all these other people seem to like her, she must be doing something right.

It sounds like she is a very nice person and you are not a very nice person basically.

It also doesn’t sound like you have anything at all to worry about at the moment. However your husband sounds like he is a nice person. And long term a marriage between a nice person and a bit very nice person can very much go wrong because of the not very nice person being not very nice….

The key issue here is that you have kids. A few of them and another on its way. It frankly isn't particularly nice for your kids to ever find out that their dad's students 'ship' him with another woman - the same woman who dad is off helping out every week, who's around their nan's etc It's amazing what kids can pick up on. As a child (about 9) there was a female neighbour who was like this with my dad and my mum never commented - but it certainly annoyed me on her behalf. I could sense things weren't right even if I was too young to understand why. Luckily my dad nipped it in the bud and now looking back it was obvious she needed a surrogate husband while hers was working on an oil rig.

Does she have any other friends she can lean on? Or is it just DH? What about her partner's family?

Maybe frame the concern to him as him needing to spend more time with his family. Kids, you. That needs to be his priority and you can't be left to do all the child care while he's off with someone else: do you also get time to spend alone with your friends and hobbies? If not, I suggest you do the same.

She sounds lovely, as does your husband. Maybe you could learn from them as you're coming across as being a bit horrible.