AIBU Would you be worried about this friendship?

[Lucyofthemichealcar]

Background:
Married for 11 years and together for 17.
H very outgoing, fun loving and flirty but never had concerns. Similar personality to me, so a bit of flirty banter is fine so long as we both respect the line.
Since married neither or us go out as much and since kids deffo not.
Both of us have male and female friends. Being friendly with a woman doesn't bother me but the dynamic between these two has always seemed different but cannot put finger on it.

H and his work friend.
I would say she definitely fits into my H's 'type'. They teach together. They are in different departments so it does not sound as if they speak every day or every week but they do seem to catch up face to face at lunch or over messenger if it has been a few weeks. She goes back to the US every summer and as far as I know they go weeks then with no communication so they are not always in each others pockets but it seems in the school they are very much viewed as a pair, so get paired up to chaperone school events and over the years they have organised several trips together as they both say if they are stuck with colleagues for a week it needs to be someone they get on with and like and apparently because they trust each other to organise and not mess things up when carting around 50 odd teenagers. Looked at messages from her when I was in the throes of pregnant paranoia and the chat is friendly but mundane. Not even flirtatious. She asks after me and H about her partner. The tone is how he talks to all his other friends. We have had her round for dinner and she has also done the same and we have went for drinks together. All very nice and above board. Done the odd favour like making us a whole load of meals when our kitchen was getting renovated and doing a food shop when we had covid or helping with looking after cat when we were away but I just can't shake a feeling she does it all to look good to H. She is very American and brings round baking, goes all out at christmas and since I have known her has always given me and the kids gifts (all our birthdays are in Late Nov/Dec so they are birthday/xmas gifts). Her and H also always exchange birthday gifts but they are stupid cheap items as part of a running joke from work. She seems keen to be friends with me too and suggested going for a wine or doing a gym class but as I said something always seems off and never felt entirely comfortable around her in the 9 years her and H have been friendly.
She has a BF of 12 years but they have never married and don't cohabit which seems strange.

Why am I concerned?
Aside from being pregnant and crying at the drop of a hat, what has made me question it all is that three weeks ago my H stayed at her house overnight. She got a phonecall at work to say her mum had passed back in the states. Her partner was away on business and she had a meltdown at work. H brought her back to ours but she said she wanted to be at home, pack and get the first flight home. H took her back to her place. He came back after dropping her off and asked me if I minded him staying to keep an eye but i think he had pretty much made up his mind while I said yes or not. He stayed the night in her spare room and then drove her to the airport at 3am. At the time I did feel like she could have reChed out to other friends but i suppose if that was me I would be all over the place too. She and her BF came by a few days ago with a restaurant voucher for the two of us to say thank you for being there for us. We have two kids and I am seven months pregnant with our third. Is it hormones or should I be worried?

H sensed I wasn't okay when he came back after dropping her off and I said how I felt and he said there was and never had been anything between them that I could check through messages etc if it put my mind at ease but I don't know. Have asked friends in the past and they have said it is a bit of an unusal one but probably because as a society we generally are uspicious of male female friendships unless they have been sustained through childhood and adolescence.

AIBU?

Soooooo you’re furious thst your husband told his friend the truth - that he can’t be friends with her because you told him he can’t.

was he meant to not tell her the truth?

honestly OP you’ve totally fucked up your marriage single handedly.

your poor husband. I don’t think he’ll leave you immediately- but I would say that he will certainly not be feeling too fondly towards you and it will be a slow and painful process as he disconnects from you.

as for her letter being self important- you’re the one who’s given her all this power!!

Ted Mullins since you seem to despise the OP so much why are you on this thread? Leave her the fuck alone, you are obsessed with telling a heavily pregnant woman what a massive bitch she is, I think you’ve made your point now.

I think your DH has every right to confide in a friend and talk things through, its irrelevant if this is a woman.
I agree, i think your DH will start to diatance himself from you, maybe that will be unintentional, but by the way you have tried to control him, the distance will grow in my opinion.

Sorry if someone covered this but not sure why being unmarried makes her more likely to steal your hubby... My ex (we were together 20 years but not married) had affair with married woman, and i never cheated despite not being married....

As if she wouldn’t have mentioned to him that she was planning on writing this letter to you, they probably wrote it together.
He can confide in a friend but it certainly shouldn’t be her ffs! They are both manipulative people and they seem to really, really want you to get back in your box and stop daring to complain so they can continue this ‘friendship’. It’s insane the pressure you are now under to shut up and begrudgingly let this woman into your family even though you are extremely uncomfortable with it.
It’s horrible.

@Beefcurtains79 youre as deranged as the OP!

theres this weird controlling attitude thst OP and some of the posters on this thread have thst women and men can’t be friends. And if they are this is some terrible disrespect to the wife of the man. So odd.

OP in this case is being incredibly manipulative and controlling of her husband.

i think that her husband will stay for the sake of the kids, the OP wil become increasingly controlling and manipulative as he pulls further away and eventually they will split up. And this will be entirely the doing of the OP

Pretty shit parent, if you remove the context that he is a teacher and that is his actual career? Weird if he didn't want to spend his time looking after other people's children, no?

I’m interested in why you seem to think the OP being pregnant legitimises her being so incredibly and sustainedly unpleasant about her DH’s friend. Is it not possible to be heavily pregnant and wrong? I don’t always like DH’s female or male friends, but I don’t turn it into a sustained mudslinging.

OP, I think that letter is fine. I see nothing ‘manipulative’ about it. It reads to me like the well-meant reassurance of someone who’s been made aware that her (normal) expectations of a friendship are bothering someone else. She says she has no sexual interest in your DH, apologises for any misunderstanding, says she’d like to remain on good terms with you both but will understand if you don’t want to.

Her style of self-expression may not be yours, but that’s hardly a crime.

And of course your DH told his friend why he suddenly wasn’t attending all the work-related events he would normally, or why he was pulling out of a work trip he was planning to go on!

Also remember OP that when his friend starts sharing a bank account, pension, children and starts making life decisions for him - he can consider her as important as you. If this was his mother, you'd get therapists coming out your wazoo telling you that family of choice always takes precedence over family of origin. The subtext being that once you get married you don't just get to do whatever you want and be with whoever you want. There is the acceptance that your spouse will not like everyone and everything you do - and if it's a pattern then yes, it's abuse and control. If it's one person in decades of marriage, you do have to find a compromise. And a begrudging compromise full of resentment is NOT a healthy compromise.

If DH didn't like someone at work and didn't want to work with them - would he tell them that he dislikes them and why, or make a diplomatic excuse. The same principle applies here - he can take space by making an excuse. But the real offence here is facilitating a letter from her to you - this is just ridiculous. Why does a letter have to be sent TO YOU? Why can they just not accept you don't like her. And if friend has issues with HIM putting you first, she should be thrashing it out with him. Not involving you. If this friend was a man and you didn't want DH hanging around him because you thought he was a creep, would DH tell him that? Would DH then let friend send you a letter explaining why he isn't a creep? You don't want her in your life, if DH does, then he's welcome to leave to maintain it. But his needs are not more important than yours. I find it weird on this thread, posters acting like it's a big loss that he decides to leave you or distance himself from you and split up his family. If he cba to work things out with you - it's not much of a marriage.

www.relate.org.uk/relationship-help/help-relationships/communication/ask-ammanda-have-i-prioritised-my-friends-over-my-relationship

Not an exact similar situation but maybe show this to him on why your feelings do matter and he needs to allow you a healthy way to communicate and not shut you down.

@disco82 Jesus wept! He hardly wanted to start a second life with his female friend. He simply had a work based friendship that in extreme circumstances when her parent died unexpectedly was out of work support.

as for “allowing” the op a healthy way to express her emotions - sounds like she went absolutely off her nut st him. Based on the OPs posts I can’t imagine she is capable of calmly and rationally sitting down and discussing her irrational fears.

And of course this is all on the OP. His defensiveness and unwillingness to accept her feelings have nothing to do with how this has spiralled. Because he can do what he wants and she just needs to accept it.

You're missing the point - the OP is allowed to dislike someone and not want them in her life. For whatever reason. Maybe she just gets a bad vibe or thinks they're creepy or they stink. Her DH has committed to a life WITH her, which means her feelings are as important as his to the state of his marriage and life. However, he has not found a way to communicate with his wife and has shut her down every time she's raised it. And if he wants his marriage to last, he'll work it out WITH HIS WIFE. Not involving someone else in this or allowing them to tell his wife how she should feel.

But let's disregard even the experts who's job it is to fix marriages just so we can harp on the irrelevant point of whether men and women can be friends. All this would apply even if this was a man - the art of communication and compromise is the issue. And what their boundaries are around friendships and marriage.

I think the ops husband is well aware of ops feelings. She's made her nasty, bitter, jealous feelings abundantly clear.

This woman seems to be a caring soul, you are coming off as controlling, nasty and wanting to see manipulation. Your husband will have learnt something from this no doubt I feel sorry for him.

OP I would seriously suggest counselling. This issue with the friend is a red herring and actually I feel it's more about your DH's feelings about a third child, what that means for his life and all the trauma you both have been through around miscarriages etc. He's using his friend as a foil to avoid thinking about it, or discussing it with you. It's escapism as she represents freedom, you represent his trapped feelings. And his resentment and yours is about the unsaid - I think you sense he's leaning more on his friend and causing distance with you since the pregnancy, hence your upset. You won't get sensible advice on here as most people won't understand the nuances of your marriage and see it only as a male/female friendship thing. Given this has never been an issue with either of you on opposite sex friendships in a decade - there's something else going on. A therapist can help you unpick that.

@Onthedunes I too would be unhappy with this situation and agree with everything you have said.

The OPs feeling should be the priority and her DH should be prioritising her feelings just as the OP should prioritise her husbands feelings. If something is causing upset, my view it that it is more appropriate to protect the marriage and the feelings of the one you promised to spend the rest of your life with.

OP, you really need to get your head together on this as all I can see is you gradually destroying your relationship. I would be reconsidering any relationship where I felt I couldn't choose my friendships.

If I was the friend I wouldn't have sent that letter as she should have known the reception it would get but it doesn't mean what's in it is untrue.

Your husband had every right to tell her why he was stepping back and acting strangely towards her. She deserves to know why she was suddenly being cut off by a friend and I think it would be really unfair to do that without explanation.

I totally disagree with this in cases where someone is clearly doing nothing wrong, like OP’s husband. He obviously (correctly) believes he is not in the wrong, and that his wife is, so why should he modify his behaviour when he fundamentally disagrees there is a problem?

Any relationship that necessitated me changing things about myself and my behaviour that I didn’t believe were issues wouldn’t be one I’d stay in. That isn’t compromise, that’s being controlled. I don’t believe policing of friends is ever acceptable. There is absolutely no suggestion he has done anything underhand or inappropriate - being married to someone does not give you the right to demand they drop friends based on nothing but jealousy and dislike of them. That’s a horribly unhealthy mindset.

OP is also behaving in a way her husband finds objectionable, why do you not think his point of view is important? Marrying someone doesn’t mean you have to obey their demands when you fundamentally disagree with them. A marriage that meant I had to betray my core values around friendships, trust and behaviour is not one I’d want to remain in.

@TedMullins What is the point in being married if a person is going to disregard the feelings of their partner and just do whatever they want to do? That's very selfish.

The husband does not think he is in the wrong but the OP does. His behaviour is completely inappropriate and he is not at all considering how it this could be making the OP feel within their marriage.

I disagree with your definition of being controlled. A partner has every right to be unhappy about something and express that unhappiness in a calm and reasonable manner. Any good relationship or marriage would consider the others feelings and put them first (within reason - unless one asked you to never speak to your family again or something equally unreasonable). You say that he has not done anything inappropriate but it depends in whose opinion. If my DH spent the night at another woman's house on the premise of comforting her, I would consider that inappropriate.

Of course the husbands point of view and feelings need to be considered but he needs to explain why he feels his friendship with this woman is more important than his wife's feelings on the issue. He also cannot just come home and tell her he's going abroad to New York with said woman and pupils without even discussing the matter with her. It is like he just does what he wants with no consideration for other peoples feelings.

It isn't about obeying demands, it is about discussion and compromise to put the other first if you want a marriage to last.

@TedMullins

I agree and that is your perogative.

If you wish to have a relationship whereby you explicitly explain you will not be putting partners above all others, that is your choice.

Where this falls down is I believe this is probably quite one sided, op has prioritised her husband in their marriage and he has not. It's about the agreement, the contract, what you both want and for some time now this agreement has been one sided.

The op's fears about this woman are her deepest fears about abandonment, humiliation, respect and realisation she may be taken advantage of, that another woman has power over the dynamic of her relationship, that this woman comes before her.

Not a pleasant place to be or feel when in a marriage which you believed to be equal, and what does he do, he makes it worse by confiding with this friend further deepening their bonds and allienating op.

Now what would be an example of this being turned arround, for instance maybe op's husband has a small cock and it's his deepest insecurity that anyone would find out, god forbid that op should critisize his performance. Now op tells a trusted male friend, he supports her, sympathising with her for her lack of being satisfied.

Do you not see some support makes situations worse, they are not beneficial to a marriage, they are actually harmful and gaslighting this woman saying she should suck it up in the name of her husband having a lovely friend is not kind.

Op needs to find someone who has her back, supports her and also protects her.

What is the point of this man, he's giving all the strength to the ow, and I would say the many posters on here who believe their male friendships are just as important as the relationship their male friends have with their wives are very self important, ignorant and selfish, not to mention cruel.

They wouldn't like it done to themselves.

So he left you 5 months pregnant, after 2 miscarriages to go on a schoold trip with her. Big No No.

Nonsense. The OP has brought this entirely on herself with her needless vendetta against this woman. If it stems from insecurity, that is HER problem to address with therapy, not imposing it on the relationship. There is absolutely nothing about her position that is worthy of respect or consideration, and in fact if I was the husband I’d lose lot of respect for my wife if they started bitching like a teenager about a situation that existed only in their own head.

Yes, of course you need to listen to and consider your partner’s feelings but when they’re just patently unreasonable what are you meant to do? Acquiesce for a quiet life? I don’t believe that putting a partner above everyone else REGARDLESS of whether they’re actually reasonable is a healthy foundation for a relationship, and no, you’re right, I wouldn’t have a relationship where that was the expectation. My fundamental values and beliefs come first and as such I’d want a relationship with someone who shared them, so we’d never end up in a ridiculous scenario where they thought they could have any veto powers over who I’m friends with.

In your example, if she wanted to confide in a friend about problems in their sex life she’d be entitled to do so. It’s unlikely in that scenario that the friend would write a letter to the husband reassuring him though!

As for different opinions on what’s appropriate or not, I’m not really seeing how anyone could reasonably claim ONE occasion where he did a bereaved friend a favour that meant him crashing on her sofa is in any way inappropriate? Unless there is evidence to suggest they spent the night shagging, which there isn’t! I’m also a bit baffled how every one of this woman’s actions and attempts to make amends and extend the hand of friendship to the OP are being perceived as manipulative and having an ulterior motive. It must be exhausting living life with such levels of internalised misogyny and suspicion of other women. Do you never just take people at face value?

Ultimately, if OP doesn’t like this woman she doesn’t have to associate with her. But she absolutely cannot demand that her husband cuts her off or that his friends or family don’t talk to her, that’s the definition of coercive control.

And I don’t subscribe to the regressive notion that opposite sex friendships should fizzle out if anyone gets married. Friendships can pre-date and outlast marriages, and the bond and depth of friendships absolutely can be on a level with and as important as that of a romantic partner. Platonic emotional connection and love is a thing! It doesn’t mean it has ‘power’ over your marriage. There is room for many types of emotional connection in life and on a societal level I think the disregard for deep adult friendships and notion you have to discard them to prioritise your relationship is in no small part responsible for rising levels of loneliness and isolation.

With all due respect, you are being abusive to the OP and it is completely unnecessary. You have different values to her, that's fine. You wouldn't be in a relationship with someone like her and that's fine too but she should not have to put up and shut up and has every right to express how she feels about this situation to her husband. If my DH behaved like that, I think our marriage would be over.

It's a simple choice - who is more important? His wife or his friend?

She is behaving abusively to her husband! This is control. She’s inventing scenarios that aren’t happening and making unreasonable demands of him.

it’s not about choosing the wife or the friend - it’s about choosing not to give in to control and unreasonable demands. Just because she is his wife doesn’t mean she is right or that he should do what she wants if it goes against what he believes to be true and his own values.