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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

AIBU Would you be worried about this friendship?

335 replies

Lucyofthemichealcar · 13/05/2022 16:43

Background:
Married for 11 years and together for 17.
H very outgoing, fun loving and flirty but never had concerns. Similar personality to me, so a bit of flirty banter is fine so long as we both respect the line.
Since married neither or us go out as much and since kids deffo not.
Both of us have male and female friends. Being friendly with a woman doesn't bother me but the dynamic between these two has always seemed different but cannot put finger on it.

H and his work friend.
I would say she definitely fits into my H's 'type'. They teach together. They are in different departments so it does not sound as if they speak every day or every week but they do seem to catch up face to face at lunch or over messenger if it has been a few weeks. She goes back to the US every summer and as far as I know they go weeks then with no communication so they are not always in each others pockets but it seems in the school they are very much viewed as a pair, so get paired up to chaperone school events and over the years they have organised several trips together as they both say if they are stuck with colleagues for a week it needs to be someone they get on with and like and apparently because they trust each other to organise and not mess things up when carting around 50 odd teenagers. Looked at messages from her when I was in the throes of pregnant paranoia and the chat is friendly but mundane. Not even flirtatious. She asks after me and H about her partner. The tone is how he talks to all his other friends. We have had her round for dinner and she has also done the same and we have went for drinks together. All very nice and above board. Done the odd favour like making us a whole load of meals when our kitchen was getting renovated and doing a food shop when we had covid or helping with looking after cat when we were away but I just can't shake a feeling she does it all to look good to H. She is very American and brings round baking, goes all out at christmas and since I have known her has always given me and the kids gifts (all our birthdays are in Late Nov/Dec so they are birthday/xmas gifts). Her and H also always exchange birthday gifts but they are stupid cheap items as part of a running joke from work. She seems keen to be friends with me too and suggested going for a wine or doing a gym class but as I said something always seems off and never felt entirely comfortable around her in the 9 years her and H have been friendly.
She has a BF of 12 years but they have never married and don't cohabit which seems strange.

Why am I concerned?
Aside from being pregnant and crying at the drop of a hat, what has made me question it all is that three weeks ago my H stayed at her house overnight. She got a phonecall at work to say her mum had passed back in the states. Her partner was away on business and she had a meltdown at work. H brought her back to ours but she said she wanted to be at home, pack and get the first flight home. H took her back to her place. He came back after dropping her off and asked me if I minded him staying to keep an eye but i think he had pretty much made up his mind while I said yes or not. He stayed the night in her spare room and then drove her to the airport at 3am. At the time I did feel like she could have reChed out to other friends but i suppose if that was me I would be all over the place too. She and her BF came by a few days ago with a restaurant voucher for the two of us to say thank you for being there for us. We have two kids and I am seven months pregnant with our third. Is it hormones or should I be worried?

H sensed I wasn't okay when he came back after dropping her off and I said how I felt and he said there was and never had been anything between them that I could check through messages etc if it put my mind at ease but I don't know. Have asked friends in the past and they have said it is a bit of an unusal one but probably because as a society we generally are uspicious of male female friendships unless they have been sustained through childhood and adolescence.

AIBU?

OP posts:
rookiemere · 25/05/2022 11:31

But OP says in her original post that she has no issues with other friendships over the years. It's just this particular one that she has concerns about.
Personally I'd choose not to be married to someone who thought it was appropriate to sign up for a jolly to NY when he didn't have to when we had 3 very young DCs.

Beefcurtains79 · 25/05/2022 11:51

And gives you the silent treatment when you dare to complain.

me4real · 25/05/2022 11:55

Even with supporting a friend, I don't think someone with a wife would usually stay with another woman overnight for the whole night.

Either way @Lucyofthemichealcar , he keeps not caring about your feelings at all.

TedMullins · 25/05/2022 11:56

rookiemere · 25/05/2022 11:31

But OP says in her original post that she has no issues with other friendships over the years. It's just this particular one that she has concerns about.
Personally I'd choose not to be married to someone who thought it was appropriate to sign up for a jolly to NY when he didn't have to when we had 3 very young DCs.

She’s also going away for a weekend leaving him with the kids. People are allowed to have their own lives when they become parents, provided alone time is equal, which it seems here that it is. The only problem is that OP is jealous of this woman. If this friend was obese with a face like a Toby jug I somehow doubt there’d be this much of an issue.

rookiemere · 25/05/2022 11:58

@TedMullins a prearranged and agreed weekend with a close friend is somewhat different to signing up to an optional work trip to NY of presumably at least a week plus jet lag afterwards.

cherrymax · 25/05/2022 13:01

rookiemere · 25/05/2022 11:31

But OP says in her original post that she has no issues with other friendships over the years. It's just this particular one that she has concerns about.
Personally I'd choose not to be married to someone who thought it was appropriate to sign up for a jolly to NY when he didn't have to when we had 3 very young DCs.

But that is a separate issue to the friendship with this colleague.

Whatdirection · 25/05/2022 14:33

Dear Op,

I think what has happened is you have tolerated this situation for years.

But the events on the night of the death seemed like an escalation for you. I think there was something about that night that really didn't sit right with you and everything you have suppressed for years is now spilling out.

I am a teacher and I have never known anyone to be forced to do a trip. Teachers with young children get an automatic pass.

It was concerning that he did a trip at the last minute when you were pregnant. I imagine you felt that he had to do it but I doubt it. It sounds like he has been able to convince you about the importance of these trips for a long time and now you are challenging him and he doesn't like it one bit.

He is trying to get you to get back in your box and using some quite nasty
co-ercive control techniques to boot.

Like you, I would not like the 'too good to be true' actions of this woman. She comes across as trying really hard to be ultra thoughtful but underneath she sounds desperate for love and approval. My hackles would be up.

However I think she is not the main issue here and perhaps you are deflecting too much onto her. I think she knows your DH neglects you hence all these thank you notes and vouchers etc.

You need to look much closer to home at your husband. Let the dust settle - you may need to give him a little 'perculation' time to let the adrenaline subside. Then you need to try to have a genuine conversation with him about how you feel - pay very close attention to his reactions -is he is prepared to listen and show empathy for you? Or does he continue to talk at you and maintains his position of no compromise on this issue.

SandyY2K · 26/05/2022 00:11

Most husbands wouldn’t want to be away from their young family on a work trip, yet he’s volunteering?

I think they would go actually, to get a break from the kids. That doesn't automatically go to ...an affair.

It shouldn't be that married teachers with kids can't go...life doesn't end when you have kids and you don't have to spend every waking moment with them.

He also said she will not be involved in actually going just helping with the planning stages as she is looking at taking a career break next term to go back to America to be with her dad for a while.

If there is something going on, this planned career break won't stop it. How would you know if she went or not anyway?

When i said good, he called me petulant and that actually she had invited us and the kids to visit next year as she is in Conneticut which is close to NY and could be used as a base to visit the city as we would only need to pay for flights and save on accommodation.

Yeah..they're definitely not just casual friends. I wouldn't be inviting a colleague and their family over, but as I said Americans can be a lot more friendly that Brits and tend to have bigger houses than we do.

I suspect he finds her quite refreshing and different to his other colleagues...just from that cultural perspective. I know that sometimes I've found colleagues from other places more interesting than my fellow Brits. Especially the outgoing ones and it sounds like she's one of them.

CinnamonJellyBeans · 26/05/2022 08:03

He cherishes this woman. There is no sex, or affair, but there is romance in the text messages, gifts she is and wanting to spend time with her over his family. He's channelling male--> female energy into her that should be destined for his wife.

OP: Does he cherish you? Are you the number one woman in his life? Are you on his pedestal of what constitutes his ideal woman? If the answer is "no", you should consider whether you want this man. If I were you, I'd be feeling like the second choice, that he thinks he is "nobly sticking with", because in another life he is not a humanties teacher in comfortable shoes, with a crap degree who has always worked in a safe job. He seems to be wrapped up the glamour of this woman, who is his ideal.

I honestly would not put up with this.

Beefcurtains79 · 26/05/2022 08:05

“SandyY2K · Today 00:11
Most husbands wouldn’t want to be away from their young family on a work trip, yet he’s volunteering?

I think they would go actually, to get a break from the kids. That doesn't automatically go to ...an affair.”

I don’t know any that would, they would be taking the piss and a pretty shit parent to prefer to be on the other side of the Atlantic looking after other people kids, rather than their own.
And no one’s saying that means a definite affair, but it sure is convenient she’ll be knocking around nearby isn’t it. You know she’ll be coming over to ‘see the kids’, joining them on excursions, dinners etc as all the kids on the trip ‘ship’ them.

Spitescreen · 26/05/2022 08:20

Beefcurtains79 · 26/05/2022 08:05

“SandyY2K · Today 00:11
Most husbands wouldn’t want to be away from their young family on a work trip, yet he’s volunteering?

I think they would go actually, to get a break from the kids. That doesn't automatically go to ...an affair.”

I don’t know any that would, they would be taking the piss and a pretty shit parent to prefer to be on the other side of the Atlantic looking after other people kids, rather than their own.
And no one’s saying that means a definite affair, but it sure is convenient she’ll be knocking around nearby isn’t it. You know she’ll be coming over to ‘see the kids’, joining them on excursions, dinners etc as all the kids on the trip ‘ship’ them.

Haven’t you ever wanted a break from your children? Mumsnet is full of posts from exhausted parents juggling FT jobs and families — isn’t it perfectly credible for someone to quite fancy a work trip somewhere interesting without planning to seduce Connecticut Colleague? I certainly left my toddler with his father for two separate US work trips a year apart — not unlike the OP’s husband, I was escorting undergraduates on a NY trip related to their studies, along with a colleague who was also a friend. It was hard work, actually — and involved having to rescue a couple of naive second years from a druggy party way out in Queeens in the early hours, quite apart from more ordinary jet lag and getting fifty kids around town to various commitments — but it was good to not have to juggle it with childcare, and to just function professionally for once.

Ecclesfreckles · 26/05/2022 08:38

A break from child care is of course a good thing.

But (a) it's a loooong break - not a weekend (b) it's pretty far to go when you'll have a 10 month old and have no idea how your wife will be coping with the birth etc given her past history (not easy to just come home for an emergency is it) (c) if it's as stressful as you say, makes it even worse because no doubt at some point he'll want an actual break that isn't work related (d) in the vicinity and will involve child free fun meet ups with a woman your wife dislikes (while she's spending sleepless nights at home) - of all the places in the world he could go - that is the most insensitive.

Quitelikeit · 26/05/2022 10:00

Op

what is happening is that you feel uncomfortable about this dynamic. I would too and no way would my dp even consider such a friendship. I certainly wouldn’t tolerate anything of the nature you describe.

however my dp is not interested in women for friendship. I don’t know many men who are although you do hear of it on MN.

stick to your guns

Lucyofthemichealcar · 26/05/2022 11:49

Yes I think I should stick to my guns. It will hopefully show DH how strongly I feel.
He has said though if he does not have 'permission' to go on the trip then I should also not be doing over night trips abroad either. As fair is fair. It means I would miss friends 40th but also a short overnight trip I had planned to a Christmas market in early December (though depending on what the baby was like was factoring it I may have to take them and leave the other 2 at home with DH).
As I said hopefully she will get lost next year and not come back and we can resolve things.
I told him he was an idiot if he thought I would stay with her and he said he didn't ever plan to stay with her but it was to prove she had no designs on him as she invited us as a family to stay so we could visit America without additional costs. Eugh like he'll she did, who the hell wants a family of 5 taking over their home for two weeks. It was just another one of her schemes to look great.
For whatever reason 'the yank' has yanked the wool over his eyes. She is insufferable. She even posted about that terrible shooting in Texas yesterday and made it about her.
I can't believe, MY heart is breaking, so ashamed of MY country. She was bleeting about Ukraine a few months ago because her great great great grandparents or whatever were apparently from there.
I expected more from DH as he is normally very sarcastic and cynical so this surprises me that a 'too good to be true' American who I don't think would know sarcasm if it smacked her in the face has turned his eye.
Maybe as someone said it is something different.
I appreciate most of your kind supportive messages. @CinnamonJellyBeans I do also want to say thank you for much of what you said but do feel you did not have any right to assume my husband has a crap degree because he is a teacher nor that it is a safe job.
There was some discussion from him duting lockdown that he would be earning more if he had kept on with his legal training as he did infact complete a law degree as part of his undergrad before doing his post grad in a humanities subject however i told him it was too late to dwell on that and it was not as if he could go back and be a trainee lawyer now. I like my DH completed teacher training but realised it was not for me and he maybe should have come to that realisation sooner. I actually now earn more than him as teacher pay in crap but the plus side is we do not have to pay any childcare in the holidays etc as he looks after them and we will soon only have to worry about one in nursery which will free up some money.
I don't really know how to resolve this with him though without it descending into another fight which is annoying.

OP posts:
katherine477 · 26/05/2022 12:13

This reply has been deleted

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SandyY2K · 27/05/2022 16:03

@Beefcurtains79

“SandyY2K ·
Most husbands wouldn’t want to be away from their young family on a work trip, yet he’s volunteering?

I think they would go actually, to get a break from the kids. That doesn't automatically go to ...an affair.”

I don’t know any that would, they would be taking the piss and a pretty shit parent to prefer to be on the other side of the Atlantic looking after other people kids, rather than their own.

Tbh, I'd relish the break myself from a 10 month old. They'll be there when I get back and that doesn't make me a shit parent. Such a myopic view.

The OPs jealousy is quite something tbh.

boronia · 28/05/2022 09:03

OP - I think it's pregnancy hormones and I'm sorry you're so upset.
I genuinely hope you can move past this jealousy. The woman sounds fine to me, she just has a totally different personality from you and comes from a different culture / background.
I'm worried for you that this is causing an unnecessary rift with your husband.
Good luck.

EarringsandLipstick · 28/05/2022 20:55

She even posted about that terrible shooting in Texas yesterday and made it about her.
I can't believe, MY heart is breaking, so ashamed of MY country.

I'm not sure I've read quite so much spite in a long time. The issues with your H I have sympathy for, I can see (some) of your points.

But your vitriol to this woman amazes me.

What she wrote about the tragic shootings in Uvalde, as an American living abroad, seems entirely expected & meaningful. It's not at all making it about her. Of course her heart would break?

PurassicJark · 01/06/2022 07:05

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Lucyofthemichealcar · 08/06/2022 23:29

Well well well

Things have been quiet after our bust up and then this popped through the letterbox this afternoon (see at end) . So DH has clearly been running off to her boo hooing that I am the evil wife.

Asked DH about it and handed him the letter. He said it was because she had asked us if we wanted to come to a Jubilee Party as a family and he said no, then when she asked if we were coming to the end of term BBQ he again said no. She had also gave him some stuff about the USA trip next year but he said he wasn't doing it afterall and when she asked him if everything was okay, he 'filled her in'.

Very angry he is telling her I don't like her and all the things I shared with him that I was upset about. Though he said he had done everything I had asked but I couldn't then complain if it 'came out in the wash'. However none of it would have come out if he had kept his mouth shut.

Now I feel I have to go back to being nice to her again so I don't seem like a bitch when DH could have just kept his distance like he had been doing until she buggered off at the end of the summer.

Any advice? Should I just ignore her mindbogginly self important letter, reassuring me about my own marriage

Dear x
I was sorry to hear I have inadvertently caused some tension between you and X. I really am sorry, especially when you should be resting and not be stressing about anything.

While i would ordinarily just stay quiet in this instance I do not want to see you or X upset so I am writing to reassure and let you know I have no interest nor have any intention in pursuing a romantic relationship with your husband. I am unsure what I have done to make you in any way think that this would even enter my mind but I can only apologise if i have unknowingly done something to make you think so and made you feel uncomfortable, insecure or angry with X.

I have been in a happily committed relationship for many years with my partner and remain so. I view X as a colleague and friend. Recent events have seen him be a very good friend to me and I will be forever grateful for that and to you likewise being gracious in allowing your partner to be that sort of friend when it was very much needed.
I don't have much family, so my friends are very much my family and I like meeting new people and adding them to my fold. While I won't
apologise for that
I do understand how to some this may seem too over familiar or too much. I didn't mean to intrude on you or your family, family in law and I apologise if this made you feel like I was again over stepping boundaries.
As long as I have known X I have known him to be in a relationship with you, I view you very much as a pair. I am sorry if you have felt any invitations I have extended to him, you or your family have over stepped boundaries, that was never my intention I only wished to extend my friendship and friendship circle, there was no ulterior motive and I certainly did not want to cause friction between you and your husband.
So please accept my apologies as I said I do not wish to get between you or your husband and create tension. Hopefully this letter will reassure you and we can move on and continue to all be on friendly terms but if you feel that is not what you wish, then I understand. I had hoped to maintain a friendship with X and yourself while I was back home and on my return but I shall leave the ball in your court.

Best wishes

X

OP posts:
SmokedGlass · 08/06/2022 23:43

I would just ignore
There is no point in engaging any further

FrazzledFirefly · 08/06/2022 23:53

Wow, I can't believe after what dh told her that she wouldn't have just quietly backed off....

I wouldn't like receiving that letter either OP.

Ignore and disengage from her.

me4real · 09/06/2022 00:25

@Lucyofthemichealcar Her letter would be ok but the glaring bit missing is much of her saying she will back off, stop messaging him as much etc. She said her friends are really important to her, implying she has no intention of stopping.

She said the ball's in your court but I expect she'll be messaging etc with him soon enough.

But the real problem is him and his disrespect of you. Even not being able to go on the trip etc, he's used as something to increase their emotional intimacy by telling her this private stuff, which could've been kept private.

disco82 · 09/06/2022 01:10

Wow WTAF. How dare he share your feelings with her and your marriage problems and make you the bad guy. His loyalty should be to you! YOU'RE BOTH supposed to be a team.

I would be livid by that letter. It is very presumptuous and self important and given she's HIS friend, none of her business. I would not engage or respond. You do not have to be nice; fuck that. You owe her nothing. However this is a DH problem. If he cannot see that you and he are supposed to present as a joint front and tackle problems together without an outsider getting involved, I think you may need some counselling. Your initial feelings were right that he is far more emotionally intimate with her than he should be - friendship is one thing, throwing your wife under the bus another. Unacceptable.

I think you are in denial that all this is happening because he encourages it, and I do think he has feelings for her stronger than just platonic. Sorry OP, I would be very angry with him, not her. The fact she felt emboldened to send you that letter VIA HIM is because he has let her into your marriage.

TedMullins · 09/06/2022 01:18

Oh Christ here we go again. He confided in his friend about his marriage problems caused by you being petty, jealous and possessive, she’s AGAIN tried to be nice and smooth things over and you’re finding fault with that as well. OP you come across here as incredibly bitter and unpleasant. I hope your H does the right thing and refuses to allow himself to be controlled by your ridiculous delusions any longer.