AIBU Would you be worried about this friendship?

[Lucyofthemichealcar]

Background:
Married for 11 years and together for 17.
H very outgoing, fun loving and flirty but never had concerns. Similar personality to me, so a bit of flirty banter is fine so long as we both respect the line.
Since married neither or us go out as much and since kids deffo not.
Both of us have male and female friends. Being friendly with a woman doesn't bother me but the dynamic between these two has always seemed different but cannot put finger on it.

H and his work friend.
I would say she definitely fits into my H's 'type'. They teach together. They are in different departments so it does not sound as if they speak every day or every week but they do seem to catch up face to face at lunch or over messenger if it has been a few weeks. She goes back to the US every summer and as far as I know they go weeks then with no communication so they are not always in each others pockets but it seems in the school they are very much viewed as a pair, so get paired up to chaperone school events and over the years they have organised several trips together as they both say if they are stuck with colleagues for a week it needs to be someone they get on with and like and apparently because they trust each other to organise and not mess things up when carting around 50 odd teenagers. Looked at messages from her when I was in the throes of pregnant paranoia and the chat is friendly but mundane. Not even flirtatious. She asks after me and H about her partner. The tone is how he talks to all his other friends. We have had her round for dinner and she has also done the same and we have went for drinks together. All very nice and above board. Done the odd favour like making us a whole load of meals when our kitchen was getting renovated and doing a food shop when we had covid or helping with looking after cat when we were away but I just can't shake a feeling she does it all to look good to H. She is very American and brings round baking, goes all out at christmas and since I have known her has always given me and the kids gifts (all our birthdays are in Late Nov/Dec so they are birthday/xmas gifts). Her and H also always exchange birthday gifts but they are stupid cheap items as part of a running joke from work. She seems keen to be friends with me too and suggested going for a wine or doing a gym class but as I said something always seems off and never felt entirely comfortable around her in the 9 years her and H have been friendly.
She has a BF of 12 years but they have never married and don't cohabit which seems strange.

Why am I concerned?
Aside from being pregnant and crying at the drop of a hat, what has made me question it all is that three weeks ago my H stayed at her house overnight. She got a phonecall at work to say her mum had passed back in the states. Her partner was away on business and she had a meltdown at work. H brought her back to ours but she said she wanted to be at home, pack and get the first flight home. H took her back to her place. He came back after dropping her off and asked me if I minded him staying to keep an eye but i think he had pretty much made up his mind while I said yes or not. He stayed the night in her spare room and then drove her to the airport at 3am. At the time I did feel like she could have reChed out to other friends but i suppose if that was me I would be all over the place too. She and her BF came by a few days ago with a restaurant voucher for the two of us to say thank you for being there for us. We have two kids and I am seven months pregnant with our third. Is it hormones or should I be worried?

H sensed I wasn't okay when he came back after dropping her off and I said how I felt and he said there was and never had been anything between them that I could check through messages etc if it put my mind at ease but I don't know. Have asked friends in the past and they have said it is a bit of an unusal one but probably because as a society we generally are uspicious of male female friendships unless they have been sustained through childhood and adolescence.

AIBU?

Most husbands wouldn’t want to be away from their young family on a work trip, yet he’s volunteering? At best he’s selfish as fuck, at worse he’s really looking forward to spending time with this woman in a foreign country, with all the students willing them to get together on this romantic trip. I feel angry and sick on your behalf OP.
She knows it’s inappropriate too, course she does. I can’t believe they organised it before even telling you, hideous.

My thoughts exactly about the trip.
We finally spoke last night or rather I was spoken at.
Trips are just in the initial planning stages for July 2023 so he hasn't signed up just said he would be interested in leading it.
He pointed out that by this stage our baby will be over 10 months and that I will also have left him to look after the three of them by himself as I am off for a long weekend for a friend's 40th next April.
He also said she will not be involved in actually going just helping with the planning stages as she is looking at taking a career break next term to go back to America to be with her dad for a while.
When i said good, he called me petulant and that actually she had invited us and the kids to visit next year as she is in Conneticut which is close to NY and could be used as a base to visit the city as we would only need to pay for flights and save on accommodation.
When I said there was no chance J would do that . He again just shook his head and told me to do what I bloody like he was likely going to go on the trip.
Eugh clearly they have had a discussion that we cannot afford to go and she comes in again 'saving the day'. So relieved she is hopefully going though. Hopefully she won't come back.

So he didn't talk to you for a few days because of a 'planned' trip? Seems a gross overreaction to me. He's also being petulant at your refusal to go stay with her in Connecticut - on one hand he says she's his friend and nothing to do with you, on the other expects you to spend a long haul holiday with a woman you don't like.... Stand your ground - this is your life and you do not need to spend time with anyone you don't like. I really wonder how he would react at having to be around a good looking man you were friends with, that he didn't like. On holiday.

Btw this boils down to the fact he doesn't seem to have any plans or thoughts on how to spend quality time as a couple together. Even going to New York needs to involve a friendl. His free time doesn't seem to be prioritised for his family, alone - is that right?

Also, he can't compare a long weekend for a friend's milestone birthday to a voluntary school trip!! I don't think friends and work carry the same responsibility unless it's mandatory for work. I'd assume that while she may not be going on the school trip, given how close she lives to NYC, she'll be visiting them/him?

I suppose her going away for a while will force space and show you how invested in his family he is. If he's moping and on his phone the whole time - not good. If he's exactly the same and focusing most efforts on you - then you know she's nothing to worry about.

Oh.... WHY is he interested in leading the trip if he thinks it's hard work? Did he decide that when he realised she was taking a career break and going back to the States - knowing it's the only way to see her? Sorry - just seems odd that a new dad wants to leave his family to go on a trip that he says isn't fun but a lot of work.

He's completely tone deaf isn't he ?

How long is this school trip, and will she be on this career break in Conneticutt whist he is he is in NY.

Why on earth would he suggest staying next year with her aswell when you can't bare her, why is he not planning something for just your family without this woman being involved.

Honestly it sounds as though he can't turn sideways without this woman getting involved or arranging his life.

I think I'd have to leave em to it, you must feel like the third wheel.

youre giving this other woman an awful lot of agency OP. Which is reflected in @Ecclesfreckles comments.

even if he does have feelings for her - she is not making him have those feelings. He has agency.

if he is having doubts about his feelings for you (and I stress I think that’s an if) then this won’t change just because the woman disappears.

its about your relationship with him and why you feel insecure about that. I wonder if the woman was not a factor if there would still be issues?

My prediction is that he will announce that he will be going to visit her on his own next mark my words.

Oh stop with the ‘she’s pregnant, she needs kindness and understanding’. Being pregnant doesn’t stop you being a bitter, jealous and immature idiot. I’m still fully on your husband’s side. So what he wants to lead a school trip? He’s a teacher, it’s his job. You already said you’re going away with friends leaving him with the kids so it’s not like you don’t also get time away yourself. You’re going to drive him away if you keep up this nastiness over a woman who’s done absolutely nothing wrong. If a partner tried to police my friendships like you are I’d leave them. And yes, I would absolutely do for a friend what he did for this woman, and be fine with my partner doing it for their friends too - in fact I’d encourage him to help a good friend if they’d just lost a parent!

He's driving his wife away with his petulant foisting of a woman on her, that she doesn't like. It's gone from being just work friends to him getting annoyed his wife doesn't want to stay with her for a holiday. And highly likely he's volunteered for the trip as it coincides with her being in the US on a career break. You'd have to be incredibly naive to not be questioning it. At a minimum his friend js a fun escape from his drudgery of 3 kids - which isn't nice for any new mum to see. Bereavement and tragedy is extremely common at bonding people together, creating a false intimacy and it's not unreasonable to think this could be happening here.

And even if OP is just jealous or unreasonable - she's allowed to be. I'm sure her DH isn't a mother Teresa himself.

He's hardly a prize she needs to work hard to keep - he has as much to lose upsetting his wife as she does upsetting him. They're married and share a home, finances, kids - it's absolutely daft to suggest he's going to leave all that just because she's jealous of ONE friend. Friend won't be wiping his arse if he's sick or injured - wife will. That's why she is the priority. If he does leave, probably for the best, as he'll learn the hard way marriage is about compromises - and picking your battles.

Also a pregnant wife warrants the same if not more consideration than a work friend suffering a bereavement. So if one gets kindness and understanding, so does the other.

His wife has been harping on about this for NINE YEARS. I’m amazed he’s put up with it this long. I wouldn’t prioritise a partner showing those character traits, especially when there’s been no evidence of anything untoward going on and the woman has tried to befriend her multiple times. Fine, she doesn’t have to like her or take her up on that, but she doesn’t get to veto his friendships either. She said herself they don’t even really talk or hang out outside of work!

I don’t believe you have to prioritise a partner when they’re so clearly wrong, pregnant or not. If I was in this situation - and I have had previous partners try and control my friendships - I would always choose the friend on a point of principle. Good friends can easily outlast relationships, especially controlling ones.

The very fact she's been harping on it for 9 years should be enough for him to realise that unless his wife is clinically insane, there's a reason she is uncomfortable with it. Intuition exists for a reason and far too many women ignore it .The friendship has been increasing in emotional connection gradually and it is completely normal to question how much of a threat this is. Too many women get made absolute mugs off for never questioning anything because they're worried it makes them look jealous and will 'drive men away'. There is nothing wrong in asking someone who shares your home and finances to not do something you don't like. Bloody hell airbnb owners have more rules on how their living spaces need to be maintained.

Her harping, didn't stop him getting his wife pregnant did it? What sort of man knows his wife is uncomfortable with something, has no intention of changing it or making a single compromise, and still wants to bring a child into the world with her.....??

Also I'd like to think when 3 children are involved, decisions to leave are a bit more nuanced than "you're jealous of one friend so BYE".

Not sure many marriages would survive the vows if we all left spouses because we don't like being told what to do. There's a difference in controlling everything vs being jealous or uncomfortable of ONE person. Christ.

@Ecclesfreckles you think the ops husband is in the wrong because the op became pregnant while he had a friendship during work hours (apart from the one off where her parent died) that the op was jealous of?

😂😂😂😂😂😂

Well I’m guessing she isn’t as awful IRL as she’s making herself sound on the thread, at least not all the time. Also… friendships include emotional closeness? They get closer over time? That’s a normal element of friendship! I confide in and share personal and emotional things with my friends and would never stop a partner doing that either. It’s not about women ignoring intuition and letting men walk all over them, if a man is behaving suspiciously or disrespectfully then yes absolutely call them out on it, but literally nothing she’s described here sounds suspicious or disrespectful to me. I’m not surprised he hasn’t compromised because he isn’t doing anything wrong or untoward!

Did you not read the context? I was proving the point to @TedMullins that if he was going to be leaving her because she was 'harping' as has been said, he'd probably have done it before they decided to have a other baby.

But the closeness isn't restricted to just the 2 of them! Family are being impacted. She's met other friends, his parents, their kids and now it looks like he wants to leave his family and go on a trip to see her or have them stay with her. She is a part of the OP's life. Marriage means that the people we bring in to our own lives also affect our spouses and kids. So if your wife really hates someone why on earth would think it's a good idea to stay with them on holiday??? I don't see what compromises he's made - an easy one would be they keep it to school. Or he doesn't invite her home or stay with her on holiday. None of which he wants to do.

Surely that in itself is the huge red flag, that he has no intention of compromising to the point he's created a mood at home. Just because she's lovely doesn't mean OP needs to like her. There's enough lovely people out there who turn out to be criminally minded or perverts or just bad eggs. Or having an affair under your nose. We don't have enough information to deduce that this woman is perfect and above board - all we know is that her DH refuses to listen to her concerns or find a compromise. For 9 years.

He's moved out of their bedroom, he hasn't spoken to his pregnant wife for days.

He's so furious he can't LOOK at her, all because she has a problem with him going on trips that he has volunteered for, which are NOW just provisional.......

I think he isn't a very nice man at all.

If my husband was so upset at me that he told me he couldn't LOOK at me for a reason involving another woman I would think we had a serious problem.

He knows well that she has reservations about this woman, but thinks a holiday in her home is a good idea.🙄

His behaviour during her career break may be revealing if he is distracted and attached to his phone.

Whatever about an affair going on, I definitely think he is far more emotionally involved with this woman than he appears to be with his own wife.

He seems extremely detached from the OP who is carrying his child.

I feel very sorry for the OP.

Yes I know - and I’m saying I think he’s completely within his rights not to have listened to her concerns for 9 years or compromised because they’re ridiculous. This woman is only impacting the family because of OP’s irrational hatred of her and her living rent free in her head!

So what if she’s met his friends and family? how does that negatively affect OP because other people like her? She’s made several efforts to befriend the OP and OP has decided they’re all cynical overblown insincere gestures. That’s fine, but just because she doesn’t like her, doesn’t mean she gets to dictate that her husband stops being friends with her. I hardly think a thank you card, one occasion of giving sweets to the kids and some attempts to be friends amounts to an enmeshed presence. If OP just accepted that her husband is friends with someone she doesn’t like, but it’s not her business to be meddling in his friendships, then I don’t think they’d have an issue. The only person making her impact on her life and family is OP by giving her so much headspace.

Sometimes in the grown up world we live in we have to make decisions about who we befriend and how much importance we place in those friendships.

When two people have committed to one another through marriage, finances and children we make promises to one another to prioritize the other. We take this for granted and it looks like op has adhered to this contract but her husband has not.

At the moment op is questioning that priority, she hasn't been harping on for 9 years, in fact she seems to have been quite subdued and let things ride for fear of upsetting her husband. Maybe their friendship has grown and become toooverwhelming for op to bear, it is op's right to question their friendship.

This will be a war of attrition, he is breaking op down with silent treatments, withdrawl of affection and taunts of going on holiday to her home, his plans of abandonning op whilst he dissapears on non essential worktrips to near where she lives is provocative.

He actually appears to be doing everything he can to destabalise his pregnant wife, I find his actions to be pre meditated and devious. This man sounds cruel.

And I also think he is doing this puposefully, his friend knows what he is doing, their plans and conversations are excluding the op, nasty behaviour.

“If I was in this situation - and I have had previous partners try and control my friendships - I would always choose the friend on a point of principle. Good friends can easily outlast relationships, especially controlling ones.”

You’d leave a family with 3 kids if your partner asked you to cool off a friendship with 1 person? Who is a colleague - not some childhood friend of decades.
Really?
If a platonic mate of mine choose our friendship over their family, and consequently walked out on them, I’d finish the friendship myself!
I’d assume they were in love with me, or were a completely deadbeat parent, red flags galore.

Also “Harping on” Ooooh! Shut up little woman and know your place!
You’ll be describing her as ‘shrill’ and ‘nagging’ next.

Agreed.

Choose a friend of the other sex over my partner and our 3 children?

If a friend told me she was doing that I would certainly be asking her what the hell is going on with her.

Over her family and her children?

I would absolutely think she was involved with the friend.

The OP has most certainly not been going on for years, she has been watching and is now concerned.

Why wouldn't a spouse express concern if a partner is straying into territory that puts their family at risk?

They have made vows, to put each other above others.

He's not doing that.

He's so furious at her he can't look at her for days?

It is quite clear where his head is.

I feel so sorry for the OP.

Re the trip to stay with her, I read it like he was throwing it out there in an argument rather than making a genuine suggestion to do it, in that moment. She probably did suggest it and it would be a terrible idea if the OP doesn't like her.

I do think he's overreacting massively by sleeping in a different room etc but I still don't think he's done anything wrong from from what we've been told and she definitely hasn't.
I don't think the friendship sounds inappropriately close and I do think the OP risks causing a rift through this jealousy.

If he's being a bit of a dick, volunteering for trips he doesn't need to etc then that's a conversation they need to have about his priorities as a parent. That is nothing to do with whether the friend is going, helping to organise it or whatever.

Maybe he is offering to lead school trips to escape his day to day life and get to visit places for free. Not ideal but are we actually saying he shouldn't go to New York because his wife wants to go?!

I've ruined a relationship over my jealousy. I couldn't control it and I did drive the other person away. He didn't help the situation in some ways but actually, I know now that it was on me. He wasn't cheating, he wasn't prioritising the other person but I couldn't stand the thought of their friendship.
I had to work on that and get to the bottom of why I was so threatened and how I would manage it in future.

Re the comment earlier about leaving a partner if they tried to control their friendships. I'm not saying I'd walk out on a marriage and 3 kids but I also wouldn't allow my partner to decide who is in my life. That's not up to them and unless there is really good reason to be worried, it's very controlling and does set a precedent.

Well, I’d never have got so far as marrying or having kids with someone who showed any tendencies of wanting to police my friendships, so it would never have got to that stage in the first place.

But yes, if I was married to someone behaving like the OP and being controlling, immature and emotionally manipulative, I would leave and take my hypothetical children, because it’s not really about the friend, it’s about choosing not to be in a relationship with someone so jealous and embittered. That’s not a kind of attitude I’d want to raise children around, or show them that it’s fine for someone to ask you bin your friends.