My husband loves someone else as well as me

[Sazdun]

Bit of a long winded one but all my close friends are also friends of his or wives of his friends so have no one to turn to.
My husband and I have been married for 8 years and together for 15. We have two girls (5 years and 10 months) and life is pretty much perfect. Yet despite all this I have found out he is in love with someone else. I know he loves me too but having seen how he behaved last weekend I am now all over the place and feel shattered.
Back in 2013 a new girl joined his work and from the get go it was clear there was a mutal attraction there (I don't think anything aside from some slight flirting has ever occured) but she also moved very near to us and as a result my husband (fiance at the time) and her would share lifts, walk to work together etc and grew close. Since they both met she has also been with her partner too. This is why I don't believe anything has ever occurred between them.
Over the years my husband and her have been on work trips together, hung out together and we as a couple have socialised with her.
To be honest, current issue aside, I see what my husband likes about her, she is pretty and very kind. Over the years she has made a real effort to include me, give gifts to our kids, help us out but if I am honest deep down it has always left a bit of a nagging feeling that this is all just an attempt to seem great to my husband. I know this makes me sound paranoid but otherwise she would just be too bloody perfect.
In return my husband seems to make an effort in his friendship with her even though he is not an overtly sociable guy. They message each other fairly regularly despite working together and while the message are all above board (I've checked), he doesn't behave like this with any other women.
After a night out when people mistook her for his wife and his friends were teasing me about 'the other woman', we had an argument about her and candidly spoke to him about her. He said he doesn't know what it is about her but he likes her and cares for her and is someone he would like in his life. While that made me slightly uncomfortable and I don't really know what to make of that, at the same time I want my husband to have friends who he cares about who are a range of different people. It has meant Over the past three years I have stepped up to be a friend to her too, I thought that might guarantee there is less chance she might overstep the mark and do anything. As I have got to know her I can see she cares deeply for my husband but that she also values the friendship I have with her too. I also think she is quite lonely and insecure. Personally I think she can do better than the guy she is with and I can see why someone like my husband is the type of person in an ideal world she would be with however in this world he is my husband.
Anyway last weekend we were at her wedding and my husband's reaction to her freaked me out and brought everything that has been under the surface for the past 8 years to a head. As she walked down the aisle he couldn't take his eyes of her. He even said to me she looked stunning (he isn't the type of guy to normally talk about people like that) and at a point in the ceremony he looked about ready to cry (he didn't even look at me like that at our own wedding). Later at the reception when my husband and her danced together they looked perfect together and so happy to be dancing together. I honestly felt like I had been punched in the gut. We left not long after as I said I didn't feel well. When we got home the next day I spoke to him about how I felt and asked him if he loved her. He said that he ofcourse loved me but there was a part of him that did love her but he didn't know in what way and he has felt like that for years but would never do anything to hurt me and our girls. When I asked him if he wanted to be with her, he said there was no point discussing that, however now I can't get it out my head. He has known her since before we got married, he could have broken it off with me and got with her if he wanted and I feel she would have been happy to go with him but now I feel like she will always be the perfect one who got away to him and I will never be able to view their relationship as an innocent friendship.
I don't know what to do. She has invited us round for dinner next weekend but I can't even face seeing her and I now feel like my husband doesn't truly love me or that our life is the one he truly wants and I feel heartbroken.
Any advice on what to do would be great.

Saying she looks stunning on her wedding day. This is not a guy eaten up by remorse. You deserve so much better than this.

He’s told you the minimum he thinks you’ll believe. 100% he’ll have shagged her and is probably continuing to do so when they go away together. These revelations aren’t the end of the story. They’re just the end of the beginning.

Also, it’s a cheater strategy - a well known one - to only give you a little bit of the truth. The idea is that you’ll think, Well if he told me A then he’s probably not lying about B. I suspect they’ve done so much more than he says. It’s textbook.

Just chuck him out. I don’t see the difficulty in that decision, he is taking the piss and not even trying to hide it. He loves her not you.

I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. It’s is the intimacy that is the killer - being so emotionally intimate, him wanting to ‘rescue’ or ‘fix’ her, the intimacy of sharing this secret and also colliding together to make you ok with it, acting like they both care so deeply for you - yet continuing this charade for so many years as she burrowed deeper into your lives. Pretty twisted actually. Not to mention the oral sex - even if true that it went no further (and I highly doubt that) that’s basically worse as it’s such an intimate act.

I think perhaps if it was a mistake and he had cut contact all those years ago maybe it could be worked through, but essentially they’ve been having a relationship with each other right under your nose. The duplicity is quite shocking. It’s also quite shocking that he saw fit to send that wall of text to you all about his feelings and her and lying his ass off throughout - and less than half a day later has admitted to their physical cheating (while denying the clear emotional affair that has been going on).

I can’t imagine how you feel but I think finding your anger is good. They’ve been manipulating you and messing with your head for years while they acted like everything was above board, and he’s still trying to cast the pair of them as innocent somehow. It’s like they’ve rewritten history. But the truth is they had a choice to stop seeing each other and instead they worked hard to stay in each other’s lives. There’s no way to spin that in any way other than utterly vile and selfish.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know it’s hard but I think you need some real life support and to speak to your family or friends. I hope there is someone you feel you can confide in.

Oh Jesus I think we've heard everything now. 🤣 @nosquit

You came out as 'polyamorous' after you got married? Your 'special friend'?? Aww poor you having to come to 'come to terms' with that in a 'mono-normative society' :( Bring out the tiny violins!! I'm sure many a man has tried this one with his partner, justifying it as 'love has no bounds yeah ' I just can't fit into this society bullshit.

Has hasn't been honest with her for most of their relationship though, has he?!! He's totally gaslit her for years and years. He gave this 'friend' oral sex three weeks before their wedding!!! They've kissed.

That's just the stuff she knows about. Like many women, she had to tolerate a female 'friend' being in his life, lest she be painted as a jealous, insecure monster. He absolutely wanted to have his cake and eat it and has made a fool out of her. He was playing two women at the same time, and unfortunately it seems like, the OP was reliable plan B if things didn't work out with this other woman.

Yup, sorry OP but in your shoes I would try to get your head around the likelihood he's been fucking her on and off throughout your entire marriage. There may have been months, even a year or two when they span themselves some tale that they would nobly and tragically put it behind them (eye roll) but basically they've been at it all along.

She is not kind, or lovely. She is not this angel she’s been playing the part of.

You’re the nice one OP. You’re lovely.

The oral sex confession is utterly rank. He was licking someone else’s fanny 3 weeks before your wedding? Get him in the bin.

Be careful, this could well be what's known as trickle truth. He will tell you a small amount but there will be more to come. This is part of a cheater's script.

I absolutely wouldn't believe they didn't have sex.

Sorry OP.

OP I was in a somewhat similar position to your DH.

I met Man1 via work. He was in a relationship, i was single and we became friends. It was platonic - we met once a month for lunch and emailed occasionally. Nothing untoward - it was our work emails so all above board. A year into our friendship I met Man2 (lets call him N ) and things became serious with N. Man1 then declared feelings for me, splitup with his gf and asked that I breakup with N and be with him.

I told N about this but he insisted our relationship was worth fighting for. After an emotionally messy couple of months I realised N was the man for me.

At this point, N sat me down with me and said that I needed to cut Man1 out of my / our lives. N was ready to walk away then if I did not feel able to do this. He also said that if I ever reengaged with Man1 he would leave me.

I agreed and we have been married for 13 years. I never contacted Man1 again. N is very tolerant and kind but has an underlying ruthless streak and if pushed too far there is no coming back. Interestingly this has made me respect and love him more.

I think you will have to draw some very clear boundaries with your DH Don't talk to the other woman. Your husband needs to make a choice. You have to be able to walk away if you need to. And he needs to be know that. He takes you for granted right now and that needs to change.

I'm so sorry you are going through this. Good luck.

Im sorry.

There is way more to this than a bit of premarital head. This is what he's willing to admit to now. He needs to get out. She will no doubt put him up.

Get him to leave and start divorce proceedings. He's not worth it.

Throughout this thread you have mentioned several times that the OW's Dh is not good enough for her. I would guess that this came from your Dh and is a clear indication that he is holding a torch for her.
You also said that her Dh doesn't seem to mind about their friendship, no doubt more information from your Dh to get you to be as cool as the other Dh about it.
I suspect he may well be as concerned as you are/were. He did try to speak to you about it so he had his own suspicions.

The only good thing about this, OP, is that your nagging doubt doesn't need to doubt any more. The guessing game has ended.

I'm so sorry it ended this way for you.

You poor thing Op, in the space of a Saturday morning your whole world has blown up. What I find so unforgivable, apart from the kissing and oral sex obviously, is the way he allowed and encouraged the OW into your lives, I mean that is some messed up shit. He needs to find somewhere else to stay, you need space and a break from him to think clearly about the way forward. I hope you have some family you can confide in. BTW it shouldn't be you that leaves with the DC, you stay in the house, he is the one that needs to go. He can go and stay with "his friend" otherwise known as the OW from now on.

Your life doesn't sound perfect al all @Sazdun you are married to a man who looks at another woman like he loves her very being, whilst of course loving you (not so much though), the wedding face shows it all. He will never love you in the same way but you are married and have children so is doing his duty (as he sees it) to you and sacrificing himself for his family. He is living a fantasy from a distance - yearning looks.
You deserve someone for you, not a person doing his duty to you. Sounds a lie.

OP, harness your anger and start future proofing your life away from this utterly despicable piece of shit. Get copies of all financial info. Don’t tell him what you are doing. In fact, let him think you are mulling things over - give no sign that you are going to make changes.

Once you have all the information, see a SHL and get things moving. This relationship is dead in the water now. You deserve so much better.

When you know how you stand financially (from seeing the SHL) tell OW and her husband, he deserves to know. Tell your family, in laws and friends that you have split and the reasons for this. Finally make sure he is out of the house.

He deserves nothing from you and the OW is also vile and deserves nothing. Protect yourself and your DC.

@BananaPlants makes a very good point. Was this hideous tramp at your wedding???

@Sazdun

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I do not want to split with him. I love him so much. All your advice has validated what I am feeling and after a workout and looking smoking in ny workout gear (don't ask he finds it sexy) I told him we needed to talk. Like typical parents of under 5s we did it amidst toast and not at the best time. He was better this time and reassured me nothing has ever happened. He looked upset that he had hurt me. I didn't feel an ultimatum was best at this stage. However he went off with the dog and for a coffee and I have just received this by text and I don't know...is this me back at square one? I'm still on mat leave and my oldest girl isn't in school, should I go to scare him? I don't want to split, I don't even want to leave and I also don't even particularly want him to lose his friend that he cares about but it just feels so painful right now.

This is what he wrote in the text:
I know I hurt you with the words I said last weekend and I am so sorry for that. I love you so much baby. I love our love, our history all of it. Last weekend was just so strange, the feelings I had were like ones I have never had before and I expressed myself poorly when I was still trying to figure it out myself. We are always honest with each other even when we have to say things we don't want to hear so here I go.
Do I love her? Yes but I cannot explain the type of love it is. She is my friend, I want the best for her, sometimes her choices frustrate me but I am not her husband, her brother so I have to step back and it annoys me at times because I know I could make it better but boundaries and I don't
want to step on her man's toes. You know me, I like to fix things if I can. You and I have even talked about this and how we wish we could sort those bits of her life because she is such a great person.
Am I attracted to her. I suppose there have been times I have been, it has come and gone. I have never acted on that but on reflection I probably have flirted with her more than I should have at the beginning, nowadays it is the same sort of banter you have with your guy friends or that is how I think of it, how we both think of it. We have in jokes and nicknames but I have that with all the lads. There's also no kisses at the end of messages because she is first and foremost my mate.
Would I have been with her if I could? Had we both been single when we met then yes we probably would have got together and who knows it could have been a disaster and we split after two months. I know it pissed you off when people thought she was my wife but you see a man and woman together and people make that assumption. She only once pretended she was when we were away when some crazy woman was hiting on me and kept asking if I had a wife and I told you about that. We have never kissed or been intimate. Yes there have been some hugs but that was after the accident, her surgery and when she has been in blown depression meltdown. Sometimes she has worn really fucking stupid shoes when we have been out and I have had to give her my arm but everytime I have told you especially since the wife incident of 15. Full disclosure when we first met I probably I was curious about what it would like with her. However it was never actually something i planned to do. Yes I thought about it and I think she felt the same way but it was never acted on, maybe we both liked the new attention after both being in long relationships but as I got to know her I just wanted her in my life and that didn't have to be in a romantic way. I liked talking to her, hanging out with her. We like the same things, we vent to each other about work, she was and is my friend. However sometines we can go weeks not talking or messaging each other, like you and your girlfriends and my other friends so that is why I have never conbsidered it anything more. But as the years have gone on we have developed a friendship I value. It is why I wanted you also to be friends because I think you and I are quite similar and i thought that if you got to know her you would enjoy her company too. You have as I thought also been her friend and she values your friendship too. I also didn't want you to think there was more to it. Her husband has a female friend who was an ex of his and she feels threatened by it at times, she has said she would never want you to view our friendship in the same way and I think that is why she has went out of her way to spoil us at times and give you and the girls gifts over me, to show that she sees us as a family, as a couple. When you and I have had arguments or rough patches, she has always been on your side and told me to stop being an idiot. If there was any attraction between us in the past, I think I can say our desire to be friends over rules that, so she doesn't pander to me or sell you out. I think we both just appreciate having a male/female perspective from people other than our partners.
This is why I am so conflicted. I love you with all my heart, you mean so much to me, I wouldn't be who I am today without you, I love our life and I wouldn't want to do anything or would do anything to ruin that. However I have a friend I care a great deal about and seeing her get married made me feel things I didn't expect to feel and I still don't understand why I felt that way or what it means, I am sorry I can't give you anymore answers than that.

They are both a disgusting pair. How dare they treat you like this. I would definitely text her and say that you know everything. Let her shit herself and feel some of the shock that you are feeling.

'there's no point in discussing it' to me says he's already thought of how it would work and it wouldn't be smooth sailing for him for whatever reason. I couldn't move past this as you'd never know how often he would be thinking about her, missing her etc, if you did ask for him to change job etc. My heart breaks for you, you seem lovely. I hope you can find the strength within yourself to treat yourself more kindly than he is. He's having his cake (nice home life) and eating it (the semi thrill of having his best buddy replying/meeting up etc, at your emotional expense.)

Dear god what is he doing. Being friends with the opposite sex isn’t a problem for me I have made friend who knows my dark MH secrets and I know his BUT I would never behave as your H has. I wouldn’t be telling my OH he looked fantastic, I wouldn’t dance with him.
If I did cross the line into fancying him I’d keep it to myself unless I wanted to hurt my partner.
It’s like he’s saying he has you and you should be grateful because he could easily have the woman. Taking the piss out of you and your relationship

@Sandinmyhooves

Saying she looks stunning on her wedding day. This is not a guy eaten up by remorse. You deserve so much better than this.

This!!!

Wow

I just read your updates and he is a complete twat. You are well shot of the perfect man. What a dick. Oral sex and sexting her before you got married and still looking at her with a yearning face.

you need shot this dick

Do you honestly believe nothing happend on their work trips?? I would be so mad at them both. I wouldn’t judge you for letting her husband know.

This does sound very sad and I really feel for you. But you’ve had niggling feelings for ages, you’ve witnessed his behaviour at her wedding, you’ve been sent a long diatribe text all about “them”, and now you’ve been given some further truths about their relationship.

But given everything you’ve explained and the circumstances of them working together and travelling together, sadly I don’t think you’ve been told the whole truth of the situation realistically.

It feels as though your husband has thrown some details into the fore as a damage limitation exercise hoping you will accept the explanation but it sounds as though there is just way more to the truth than this.

It also makes it impossible for you to trust what he has said in the past and the encouraging your friendship with her and her involvement and investment in your lives is just very odd indeed. But you know this yourself. Now you just have to somehow calmly decide what to do and how to do it.