Financially irresponsible man?

[Stealmyheart]

I've been going out with a really nice bloke, it's coming up to a year now of meeting but been exclusive for about 8 months.

He's always been honest about the fact that he has 'no money' as he is in the process of trying to launch a business (what seems like extremely slowly) but thing is, in the mean time it seems he is just not paying his bills and living on mounting credit.

There was an incident a few months ago when a bailiff knocked on the door and he was forced then to sort of come clean about his money issues but thing is he still hasn't earned any money at all and in my opinion hasn't really made steps to find an income.

He made a comment the other day that he'll just go stacking shelves if needed, good for you I thought, go on then. But nothing.

He has not brought in any money in two years now. He left his well paid full time job when covid hit in a 'now or never' sort of way as his job wouldn't furlough him so he just quit, he already had the business idea but it is a tech based start up so in need of £ investment before he can actually make it.

I asked him a few months ago how he was living and he said 'just savings'. I know this not to be the case though. He gets some UC but for a single person it is hardly any, it wouldn't cover his rent alone per month.

I think he might be taking money out of his business account per month to buy food etc, he has some individual investors who have put money in early doors before the business is launched. Is this even allowed? I'm not self employed myself but I know SO many people who are. But all of them started their businesses on their own from scratch and made sure they were off the ground before leaving paid employment.

I'm wondering if this guy is just burying his head in the sand or is this sort of thing normal pre launching a business? Is there usually a period of years before any income is generated?

I like him a lot but as we approach the year mark I wonder if there is any future for us together long term. I've made some bad financial decisions in the past regarding partners which is one of the reasons I still don't own a house so I'm really wary at the moment. For instance I couldn't imagine a world we could ever live together as I don't want to financially link to someone with bad credit not to mention not bringing money in.

For context. I'm a single mum. Work full time long hours, not a high earner but average full time wage (public sector). Zero assets and just about covering my bills.

@FurStories

You’re still concerning yourself with his values, justifications, possible interpretations, upbringing etc

☕️ 👃 ➡️

Why are you worried about a grown man, with a privileged and supportive upbringing, with financial backers, who spends many days, by your own surmising, drinking coffee in his chinos with his mates? Just not getting this.

Christ yes, this.

OP, I wrote a post above about how I set up a couple of companies over the past decade: out of the sale of these (which, as I say, I set up, managed and sold on over the course of about a decade in addition to an FT job), I made probably about £175-200k clear profit, which was fine for me, but isn't propelling me to Elon Musk status any time soon.

Now, on top of that work - and it was WORK - I also had a proper job, with a salary, which paid my bills while I galivanted about being an entrepreneur.

I just don't think you're getting this at all, are you?

@Stealmyheart

I do not think he thinks that job roles are beneath him.

I do think that his upbringing has given him an over inflated sense of importance where he truly believed that he could just get away with it because "one day the business will make money, they will just have to wait, they will get their money".

This combined with a poor knowledge of how these things work as he had a privileged upbringing that the word bailiff would never had entered has I think caused him to fully ignore his responsibilities as he didn't realise the serious impact it would have.

Which is very bad, for someone who wants to be a businessman

Or someone who wants to be an equal, responsible partner in an adult relationship.

I am getting it.

I put it on here to talk out as I didn't want to discuss his finances with people I know as it's quite private isn't it.

I'm dreadfully disappointed though as I really didn't want it to be this way as he makes me feel happy and loved in other ways.

I don’t really understand why you’re worrying so much about him. He has a family. He has friends. Why do you think he need you to pay for things or to help him with his career? If the start up doesn’t work, he can just move home he’s not going to be homeless.

His parents will probably pay his debts eventually. I can’t help but feel that you think if you get your foot in under the door now, then you’re somehow going to reap this large reward. It’s going to be like a fairytale.

No way, nothing like that.

I'm well aware that life is no fairy tale. I'm worrying about it because he is a genuinely nice person with a lot of qualities I like and I'm happy when I'm with him so wanted to discuss my reservations should I choose to spend more of my life / time with him long term.

It's cemented my feelings that he is not a 'life partner' or someone to settle down with.

But I am going to talk to him about how I feel and see what he says.

OP in addition to what pp have said about the costs of a tech start up, if his idea is anything like Uber then it’s likely to be a non-starter. Uber only turned a profit (maybe) a couple of months ago, after years and years of losses - billions in losses. Their model is to attempt to flood and corner the lift sharing space before anyone else. He is too late to get into that kind of area, even if he were working night and day at it, which it doesn’t sound like he is.

I know some of these posh boy fantasists too, they think money comes easily and they’re always trying to hit up their friends for “investment”.

Okaaay, OP.

Though I just noticed your name StealMyHeart which I think is interesting ....

Don't let anyone do that.

@SpringheelJack I think that summarises exactly what I feel too

What I mean is, OP, look after yourself.

@Stealmyheart

No way, nothing like that.

I'm well aware that life is no fairy tale. I'm worrying about it because he is a genuinely nice person with a lot of qualities I like and I'm happy when I'm with him so wanted to discuss my reservations should I choose to spend more of my life / time with him long term.

It's cemented my feelings that he is not a 'life partner' or someone to settle down with.

But I am going to talk to him about how I feel and see what he says.

Whilst someone being a genuinely nice person is a very important quality in a long term partner, it's not the only quality that's important.

Frankly there are a lot of genuinely nice men out there, but other things such as financial responsibility are also v important.

I think you should write a list of must haves for a partner.

I've done this with a friend before, and on her list was "has a full time job" and "isn't in debt (except mortgage)".

I don't think this is a particularly high standard, personally. It's not saying they need to have a high paying job or a certain type of job or they need to have property, savings etc. Its just having the basics- a job and no debt.

Look, if he had a decent business plan he'd have planned the launch then launched the business and be making money by now. It doesn't take two years.

He sounds like a nightmare. Whatever you do, don't lend him money, don't marry him, don't intertwine your finances.

I would not necessarily want to remarry either. I know he does though

I'll bet - after all, anything you have will then become half his

The other "investors" might have been daft enough to shell out for his fine words, but hopefully you'll avoid throwing your lot in with him, especially as you have a child and have been financially abused before

I talked to him.
He'd been in the pub all afternoon and came back this evening (I've been at work for 12 hours).

I sat him down and said this is your chance to be completely honest with me and answer these questions.

He immediately started getting defensive "wtf is this what on earth is going on what are you talking about!"

I asked him directly some things and he directly lied to me, things about the money stuff that I know not to be true. I told him that I was disappointed that he had lied repeatedly and that I was genuinely worried about his precarious situation.

He repeatedly justified himself and his actions, denied lying to me and maintained the "how dare you, what is this I can't believe someone would ask me such a thing " nonsense.

He then called me 'establishment' for paying my bills and said "well I'm sorry if I am not that sort of live by the book person".

I said, I'm sorry about that too. I wished him luck and walked out.

Since then he's been groveling on msg about 'pls don't throw away what we have'.

He's unbelievable isn't he.

Please, please tell us you're going to draw a line under this relationship and not take him back. And then follow through on that.

You've seen the real him now. Defensive, unable to discuss serious things rationally and 100% deceitful to your face.

Your instinct that his situation troubled you proved correct. Now you need to act on that instinct accordingly.

Don't give him unnecessary headspace, heartspace or time.

"I'm not comfortable continuing a relationship with someone who is unable to talk about difficult things calmly and maturely. I am also unable to be in a relationship with someone who is capable of lying directly to my face. Let's draw a line under this and both move on. All the best."

Then I would block him if I was you because you sound really vulnerable to being guilt tripped by people who give a sob story.

You know who he is now. And he's not a keeper.

I sent quite a similar message to yours above. But including that I've done my time feeling stressed and limited by someone else's financial constraints and mistakes and I've worked so hard to be out of that it isn't a compromise I'm willing to make. I did end with I wish you all the best

Well done OP. I guess living by the book means keeping your commitments and he wants none of that. You're well rid of him.

He then called me 'establishment' for paying my bills

Fuck me - this is about as privileged as it gets. Yeah, enjoying sleeping under a roof and eating two or three times a day (and feeding those that are reliant on me) means I'm a big fan of The Man.

You're well shot of this one, OP - onwards and upwards!

There ARE nice men out there, with, you know, jobs and wallets and normal approaches to money. I hope you find one.

Sounds like you dodged a bullet there.

Glad you dodged that bullet OP.
I was going to ask you when his credit card is declined, do you then pay ?

Glad there's no need to ask now.

@Stealmyheart

I talked to him. He'd been in the pub all afternoon and came back this evening (I've been at work for 12 hours).

I sat him down and said this is your chance to be completely honest with me and answer these questions.

He immediately started getting defensive "wtf is this what on earth is going on what are you talking about!"

I asked him directly some things and he directly lied to me, things about the money stuff that I know not to be true. I told him that I was disappointed that he had lied repeatedly and that I was genuinely worried about his precarious situation.

He repeatedly justified himself and his actions, denied lying to me and maintained the "how dare you, what is this I can't believe someone would ask me such a thing " nonsense.

He then called me 'establishment' for paying my bills and said "well I'm sorry if I am not that sort of live by the book person".

I said, I'm sorry about that too. I wished him luck and walked out.

Since then he's been groveling on msg about 'pls don't throw away what we have'.

He's unbelievable isn't he.

I'm not surprised he got defensive, you did spring it on him.

However, the bottom line is you have made your position clear to him and even more importantly, to yourself. It seems you had some conflicting feelings and ideas to process.

Give yourself time to get used to this, it's always sad when a relationship ends even when it's for the best.

I'm sure you are hurting, @Stealmyheart but you really have done the right thing, both for yourself and your child.

This man was being as slippery as can he with you about his finances and associated plans. Now he's no longer your problem and you can breathe a sigh of relief that there's now absolutely no chance, whatsoever, that you might be pulled into any financial commitment with him.

It all sounds rather messy and, no doubt, his financial backers will soon see the light, if they haven't already. 🌹

03:43Monty27

Of course you still care about him.
Except you need to put yourself and DC's first.
Get rid OP. He's doing your head no good. Concentrate on real people.

Do not live with him.
Let him know his money worries are his not yours.
Do not lend him money.
I can't see much point in the relationship- anything fun you do will be up to you to fund.

Actually OP just stop it today and don't string him along. He's no good for you.

@Stealmyheart

That's what I'm wondering, is it some sort of fraud or is that a thing that people do?

So he's got several retired people to buy shares in his company. I don't know the exact amounts but let's assume between them they've put in 30k.

I'm 90% that he is transferring money from his business acc into his (overdrawn) personal account a few times a month in order to literally eat/pay phone bill etc.

Is this a thing that people are ok with?!

I know you've now spoken to him. However in relation to your query as to "is this a thing that people are ok with?!". The short answer is no.

Aside from it being morally wrong, contrary to the general populations understanding of company/insolvency legislation a director can (not a typo) be personally liable when a company becomes insolvent for a variety of reasons one of which is where he/she is deemed to owe the company money. If your boyfriend IS using company money as his own then that would be considered a loan from the company to him which he is liable to repay. There are tax implications depending upon when the funds are repaid. In any event, upon entering an insolvency process an insolvency professional would assess the assets of the company and thereafter bring any relevant claims against individuals eg directors personally. This could result in bankruptcy proceedings. In addition his conduct could be brought to the attention of the Dept for Trade and Industry who could simultaneously choose to bring proceedings banning him from being a director or involved inter running of any business for a number of years.

In addition if he opened his company at the start of lockdown i would hazard a guess that at the very least he took advantage of the various financial packages made available to companies which frankly have been badly abused by many companies.