Financially irresponsible man?

[Stealmyheart]

I've been going out with a really nice bloke, it's coming up to a year now of meeting but been exclusive for about 8 months.

He's always been honest about the fact that he has 'no money' as he is in the process of trying to launch a business (what seems like extremely slowly) but thing is, in the mean time it seems he is just not paying his bills and living on mounting credit.

There was an incident a few months ago when a bailiff knocked on the door and he was forced then to sort of come clean about his money issues but thing is he still hasn't earned any money at all and in my opinion hasn't really made steps to find an income.

He made a comment the other day that he'll just go stacking shelves if needed, good for you I thought, go on then. But nothing.

He has not brought in any money in two years now. He left his well paid full time job when covid hit in a 'now or never' sort of way as his job wouldn't furlough him so he just quit, he already had the business idea but it is a tech based start up so in need of £ investment before he can actually make it.

I asked him a few months ago how he was living and he said 'just savings'. I know this not to be the case though. He gets some UC but for a single person it is hardly any, it wouldn't cover his rent alone per month.

I think he might be taking money out of his business account per month to buy food etc, he has some individual investors who have put money in early doors before the business is launched. Is this even allowed? I'm not self employed myself but I know SO many people who are. But all of them started their businesses on their own from scratch and made sure they were off the ground before leaving paid employment.

I'm wondering if this guy is just burying his head in the sand or is this sort of thing normal pre launching a business? Is there usually a period of years before any income is generated?

I like him a lot but as we approach the year mark I wonder if there is any future for us together long term. I've made some bad financial decisions in the past regarding partners which is one of the reasons I still don't own a house so I'm really wary at the moment. For instance I couldn't imagine a world we could ever live together as I don't want to financially link to someone with bad credit not to mention not bringing money in.

For context. I'm a single mum. Work full time long hours, not a high earner but average full time wage (public sector). Zero assets and just about covering my bills.

Totally agree with everyone. You're financially incompatible. I hope he does make a success of his business but it doesn't sound too promising at the moment. Anyway this isn't a man who is going to be independent financially any time soon and you have worked so hard for that yourself, you can't afford to give up on that security.

OP this man's problems are not yours. I realise you're keen on him and he talks the talk. But from what I'm reading he doesn't walk the walk.
This could end up in financial difficulty for you if you don't step out of this.

You're all right.

Before the UC text it was just the 'just savings' and shrug answer and tbf that hasn't changed. He doesn't know that I know he's on UC.

Friend of his is not self employed he has a very well paid employment so I hope he will be ok and this won't negatively impact him.

I'll try not to make this my administration task from now on.

So he's an unemployed loser who's in debt. He's lied about his past savings. He's lying about his business- there are no investors he has an airy fairy idea. He's sold you a fantasy.

I get that you might like his company, but do you really want your child growing up with bailiffs knocking at the door? Come on, you know what to do - walk away with your head held high.

I would end it and simply say you feel you are not compatible.

Because you aren’t. You wouldn’t live in credit if you were trying to launch a business idea. You would make sure you had sone income and work on your idea in your spare time.

If someone has different values than you, it really doesn’t matter how nice they are. There is no future.

I’m sure you are cooking for him and he is spending a lot of time at your home. That’s money better spent on achieving your goals.

Instead of trying to work out his business arrangements focus on how you could improve your earning potential.

It’s not clear why you are so invested in the financial arrangements of his life, OP. It’s not your problem. It’s not your issue. It’s not your life. It’s nothing to do with you really. Honestly, you seem way over invested and concerned with all this. Hopefully you’re not subsidising him in any way? If I were you, I’d be focusing on my own life, finances and children! If a casual relationship suits you because you like him, fair nuff, but as PP posters have said, why all the headspace about his business and finances? If it’s simply because you are trying to square a fantasy of a life you might have together, with one you actually have, it seems very much a waste of your time and energy.

Because I am trying to figure out if there could be a future for us for instance moving in together as a partnership. The approach of a year of us meeting has prompted these thoughts about a future, it's the kind of conversations people have after around a year together typically in my experience.

Of course you can't live with him, OP! He's living off his credit cards, has used investment money for living expenses and has had the bailiffs round! You can't live like that.

If he was living with you, how long do you think it would take before you were paying all the bills and helping pay off his debts?

If the bailiffs calling weren't enough to get him to a full time job, nothing will be.

He sees his new business like the golden Willy Wonka ticket. Don't even think of sharing a household with him.

Didn't you say he has children too. You are financially responsible because you have kids and because it is important to you. Who is supporting his kids?

He's not a keeper.

OP, come on now.

Read this back:

I've made some bad financial decisions in the past regarding partners which is one of the reasons I still don't own a house so I'm really wary at the moment.

You have a child. You cannot afford to make a similar mistake again.

This man isn't a suitable candidate for you when it comes to a relationship.

I think you know that but don't want to finish it. Which I get as clearly you like him. But your head needs to take over here and you need to do the right thing.

Risking repeating the mistake of poor financial decisions when it comes to partners is not something you should put yourself anywhere near.

It's not a goer.

Thank you all for talking it through with me.
It's a shame but he isn't a good prospect is he.

@Stealmyheart

Because I am trying to figure out if there could be a future for us for instance moving in together as a partnership. The approach of a year of us meeting has prompted these thoughts about a future, it's the kind of conversations people have after around a year together typically in my experience.

I would say that these are the kinds of thoughts you have way before the one year mark. You see on here occasionally a post about " would you go out with a guy who is unemployed/doesn't have his own house/car etc". I just would not have entertained any man who was not on the same page as me financially.

Seriously, there would be dust behind me right now. Get rid. No future in this at all.

How old is he?
How old are you?
What are your backgrounds (education/family)?
Are they similar?

I’m not 100% sure he is a dud but need more info.

Him.

35. Divorced. One child who resides with the mum and sees him eow (he'd have more if there wasn't big geographical distance) has a v good co parenting relationship with the ex. Posh background, degree educated. Nice family.

Me.
32. Two kids primary age who I have 50% of the time. My ex is a twat.
Very poor working class background but I'm highly educated and work full time in a profession.
Separated but can't afford to commence a divorce yet. I have a shit family background and also shit relationship history too.

Neither of us have any assets.

We have similar interests and have met each others friends and all like each other.

We met in real life at an event for a shared interest.

You forgot to say he hasn't worked for two years and hasn't even tried to get a job. He doesn't sound as if he shares your good values about finances. We can get blinded by attraction and sex.

Enjoy a relationship with him but don't let him move in with you, ever

Oh right. I wasn’t making a dig OP honest. Just puzzled as to why you were so focused on his job, finances etc. But you say it’s because you were thinking re. “next step”. Do you think he’s been bamboozling you about his prospects, and that’s why you’re unsure? It all sounds a bit mysterious as to how he spends his time and money and if it that’s the case it’s another reason not to take things further. Does he pay his fair share when you go out or do anything? Anyway, it’s kind of obvious you can’t really ‘take this further’ as a couple if he’s been on UC for two years and no progress (unless he’s ill or some other genuine reason).

Not too ill to work. Had a full time decent job pre March 2020 (I definitely know this to be the case)

When we do stuff we try to take it in turns he pays by credit card. But I have definitely been enabling him by buying him food and household stuff etc when I do my own shops.

He has never borrowed money from me or asked to.

No most self-employed people (even when starting up their business) don't have bailiffs coming to their door @Stealmyheart .

Businesses can take a couple of years to get off the ground but people make sure they can get by in the mean time.

This guy would land you in the shit financially if you ever got more married/co-habiting etc- or at the very least would just be like having another child to pay for.

He's not a prospect. Bin.

Rule no 1 - never subsidise a man who should be perfectly able to take care of himself financially. And it’s a black mark against him that he’s even letting you buy some of his food. You’ve got children to feed as well, ugh! Still, you’ve not loaned or given him any money, so there is no debt and you are completely free to do as you wish now. Good luck.

You are obviously very level-headed and stoic, you have survived a difficult childhood and an abusive marriage. You have been very successful in your pursuit of education and work, and you are very focused on continuing to make the most of your opportunities.

Now I am all for being open-minded and I believe you when you say this man is nice enough to consider a future with. But the reality is that the future will be more of the present which is you forging ahead and him being nice but irresponsible.

His problems are already consuming you and that will become so much more of a worry.

I would want to be honest with him though I acknowledge it could be a difficult conversation. You are right in that it is likely to hurt him, but in all likelihood it will be a very important message for him to receive and may potentially be the wake up call he needs. Not that it is your responsibility of course.

You can own this by telling him how important financial stability is to you and that it worries you that he has no income. That is the truth. Whatever his dreams, and I'm sure he believes them, the reality is he that he's unemployed.

By the way I have a friend who has been "setting up their business" for the entire 11 years I've known them.

Yes I think maybe I was holding on for the future 'thing' of the business to happen and start generating income and become a success. Because we all want things to work out for nice people don't we.

A year ago when we met he told me about his project and it is attractive to see someone so enthused and passionate about something they want to do. He told me that it would be launching in a few weeks so going back that would be maybe April 2021 or something.

Then there were various problems with the development of it, I'm not a tech person but it all sounded complicated so there were delays in getting the thing made.

NOW I know what I know I'm wondering hmmm maybe he wasn't screwed over by developers MAYBE he didn't pay people on time for work done or something so they fucked off? Certainly could be.

So then he had to find another company to do it blah blah. Delays delays more delays and here we are a year later and he still doesn't have a product.

Someone mentioned dragons den earlier. I'm now imagining him standing there trying to justify all this time wasted and just cringing. Because I know what the panel would say!

I don’t agree with everyone else that he is necessarily a scammer or a chancer. I asked about his background because I figured that he was very relaxed about being poor because he’s never been poor before. But you are very concerned about being poor because you grew up poor.

I work in tech and his experiences don’t seem that crazy to me. Development overruns and things go wrong.

The problem is that it may take years to set up and he might not be the right person for you. Can you talk openly with him about your concerns? What does he say?

Op, I know this type as worked in tech investment. They often come from wealthy backgrounds and just assume they will be successful. They are usually really good at getting investors because they have polish and credibility. However I was surprised to learn how many typically older men with vast pension pots are willing to give 10k to a tech start up, it's akin to gambling for them.

Tech sites take 250k plus to develop. If he was a developer then he might have a fighting chance by working at it day/night but if he has to outsource the work then he has to pay someone and continue to fund for considerable time to maintain the application. Rates are 60-80k. He could go off shore but you need to have clear view of design for that to work. If he doesn't have technical skills then he can't drive that process.

I suspect his family are indulgent rather than supportive and if they come from money it's easier to assume you will always make money.

Most of the startup I knew were owned by deluded men who didn't want to do 9-5 anymore as it was too much like hard work. They assume owning a company is the fix and they are all sure their idea will take off..rarely ever do they.

Networking is just bollocks for having coffee with similar deluded types. If he hasn't made money in 2 years, he isn't going to. In 5 years he might be still here.

Ballifs at his door is serious. He is in big trouble if it's at that stage .

Btw, the terms of investment will differ, some may allow him to draw an income or could stipulate investment is for a particular purpose such as development. It depends what he has promised the investors during the negotiations.

If financial stability is important to you then he isn't your man.