Has somebody abducted my lovely, kind, thoughtful MIL and stolen her phone?

[TerfranosaurusVagina]

Name changed for this as it is so bonkers and outing. My DS is 2.5 and I've booked him in to nursery for 1 morning a week to give myself a bit of a break as I've been struggling a bit recently plus he is getting virtually no peer interaction. I'm a SAHM and he doesnt like playing by himself so is always clamouring for attention.
I thought I had a brilliant relationship with my MIL until last week when I mentioned this, and she was horrified.
She went off on one about how hard her life was bringing up 3 kids with no support and an alcoholic husband, told me she thought I was spending too much time at the allotment that I hadn't been to since Christmas , that he was "too young" to send to nursery, he'd get completely overtired and a million and 1 other objections.
I wasnt too fazed, she's very traditional thinking, and replied calmly telling her all the good points about nursery and thought that was the end of it. It wasnt.
That evening she messaged my husband asking him what he thought about it, he told her he couldn't see a problem with it, to which she replied, "It is, he's only 2!" He replied saying he's not really had much to do with it as it was all my doing.
The next evening, DH met FIL as they were doing some work together and FIL mentioned she had been very upset about it and had been crying. At this point I thought Ive made my point, so she knows where I stand.
A week later she messaged me on Monday to let me know that she could look after him as usual on the Tuesday pm. I told her not to worry as he had conjunctivitis and was feeling rubbish.
She replied saying "this was one of the reasons she can't BEAR to think of him going to nursery. He gets ill every time he gets overtired (bollocks) and will catch everything going.

I wanted to put a stop to this pretty quick because she ruminates on stuff like this and just doesnt stop thinking about it, so I wrote a very arsey message, slept on it, then took all of the emotion out the next morning before sending it. I wrote 'I understand you are very much against DS going to nursery. I'm sending him for some badly needed social development and to preserve my mental health. Can we please leave it at that?'

She came back with some very passive aggressive comments about how advanced DS is and how he is not expected to learn to share till he's 3½ anyway, then one about me not able to get out the house early, and then at the end, offered to take DS from 8am on Tuesdays to make it a longer day for me.

I ignored the anal comments though I was cross about them, and just replied thanking her for the offer, and taking her up on it.

5 hours later she replied rescinding it, saying it would be unfair as well as the 7.30 nursery starts.

I'm seething so I haven't responded yet as I dont trust myself to be polite yet.

Just WTAF?!??!?
Has somebody abducted my lovely, kind, thoughtful MIL and stolen her phone?

OP I had something very similar happen and my DH was similarly turning a blind eye. He knew I was sensible and they weren't so it would be easier on him to deal with me upset than them, basically. He never told them no, ever. His default was to please them and then let the chips fall where they may with me. But it reaches a breaking point and it sounds like you are there.

With counselling our marriage got through, unfortunately our relationship with PIL didn't. With the help of a counsellor pointing out how unhealthy the dynamic with his parents was (saving me from doing it) he was able to navigate through on his own path instead of feeling like I was pulling him away from them. I honestly think it saved our marriage going to counselling, because I wouldn't have stuck by someone who thought it was ok for me to be treated like that. As it was it was terrible for my self esteem and my post natal mental health, and it went on too long. But eventually DH got there and drew a line with his parents- they chose to walk away from the relationship rather than work with us in counseling to set some boundaries.

@pictish

“If she can’t keep up with all the help she has it’s not ds that’s the problem.”

What…is she your marriage’s line manager? Like fuck she is. She’s carrying on like she’s conducting a performance review. Jesus.

Lol that's exactly how it reads.

Who does this woman think she is.

I think you're a bit enmeshed as well. You gave her so many reasons, including talking about your mental health- she didn't deserve reasons. Reasons are for reasonable people. She'll just use them to undermine you and argue.

Some recommended reading, tell us if anything sounds familiar:

captainawkward.com/2012/05/14/247-marrying-into-a-family-with-awful-boundary-issues-or-secrets-of-dealing-with-highly-difficult-people/amp/

@Ivyonafence

OP I had something very similar happen and my DH was similarly turning a blind eye. He knew I was sensible and they weren't so it would be easier on him to deal with me upset than them, basically. He never told them no, ever. His default was to please them and then let the chips fall where they may with me. But it reaches a breaking point and it sounds like you are there.

With counselling our marriage got through, unfortunately our relationship with PIL didn't. With the help of a counsellor pointing out how unhealthy the dynamic with his parents was (saving me from doing it) he was able to navigate through on his own path instead of feeling like I was pulling him away from them. I honestly think it saved our marriage going to counselling, because I wouldn't have stuck by someone who thought it was ok for me to be treated like that. As it was it was terrible for my self esteem and my post natal mental health, and it went on too long. But eventually DH got there and drew a line with his parents- they chose to walk away from the relationship rather than work with us in counseling to set some boundaries.

This is an excellent post and explains the complexities of the dynamics and with whom and how best to fix it.

Your DH is unconsciously in self preservation mode - he knows his DM will kick off and does everything to appease her as he has been groomed and manipulated into an enmeshed relationship with his DM.

He tries to keep the peace. His actions are his visceral discomfort and childlike and he will inadvertently through inaction or silence or secrets or duplicity throw you under the bus to save his own emotional discomfort which to him is perceived as devastating at his core because part of it is a helpless child bond he has with his mother.

You cannot be the tug of war trying to get him to “see it” - this will be counterproductive and put him under pressure - he needs professional support to disentangle himself.

However you need to take unilateral action, quietly, calmly and assertively. His opinions and decision making is off kilter and distorted due to his enmeshed relationship.

Know what is right in your heart as a mother - and quietly get on with it - you owe no explanation to his DM for anything you do.

Their relationship is dysfunctional and it will damage your marriage and pollute your motherhood. Your DM won’t / can’t change - she is two faced and manipulative - don’t waste your breath on her. Just put in so much distance so she can’t observe, target and undermine you.

If your DH continues his relationship with his DM - he needs to know he is exposing his marriage erosion by her.

She shouldn’t be in you home. She needs zero info about your life from you or your DH.

Information diet - grey rock.

“Know what is right in your heart as a mother - and quietly get on with it - you owe no explanation to his DM for anything you do.”

Couldn’t agree more. Polite indifference is all her interference merits. There’s no tug of war…she’s not a contender. 🤷‍♀️

Thanks so much everyone. I will be speaking to a counsellor and buying those books.
He had counselling a couple of years ago for the emotional repercussions of living in this dynamic after lots of pushing from me, but I don't think he was ever given a 'label' per se from the counsellor. I only pieced it together thanks to having a lightbulb moment on mumsnet, and thanks to that, can see its another side of the same coin.
Hopefully the counsellor will help him to see this and draw boundaries and, yes, put me first in his emotional priorities.
I could see he was trying to tell her I wasnt being unreasonable in his messages to her but couldn't quite dredge up the courage to tell her to just back off.

Well, you can definitely ditch any thoughts of her being lovely, kind and thoughtful! I would be taking a massive step back from her, and having serious words with your DH about how you and DS are his priorities as a family.

When I read this, I imagined MIL must be in her 70s or even 80s, I was amazed to realise she is younger than I am! She sounds like MY late MIL who would have been in her 90s if she were still alive, and had never worked since marrying in 1952, and had what I would if I were being kind describe as very traditional views about childcare and domestic arrangements. But even she was considered old fashioned and out of touch.

I sent my DC to nursery, and so did most of my friends. It was the norm 30 years ago, and it's certainly the norm now. Hell, I went to nursery a couple of mornings a week as the only child of quite a protective stay at home mum in the mid 60s! She did it for a break for her, and to give me a chance to socialise with other children.

Your DH does really need to stand up to his mother though. It's a deeply worrying (and unattractive) trait to be so conflict avoidant with her. You need to let him know the damage that his mother's unwanted and uninvited meddling in your marriage is causing.

This has actually got nothing to do with nursery and opinions around childcare.

It’s just a power dynamic - it could have been about anything really and I suspect if you look back with fresh eyes you might see plenty of previous incidents where you adapted to or were coerced by her nuanced criticism.

I think that why this specific situation is so amplified, disproportionate and seemingly unresolvable for her right now is because she has become so enmeshed already with your child - that she believes she has 100% agency over the decisions in his life.

Her “closeness” with your child are meeting her own dysfunctional emotional needs. It might look like an adoring granny - but it’s ultimately self serving and will back fire on you and how you choose to parent and discipline your child.

She is not emotionally healthy or appropriate to have around your child who is an open door to her nonsense which will ultimately alienate you and devalue you - just like she continues to do - unchallenged - with your DH.

Don’t expose your child or your mother child relationship to her destructive and manipulative behaviours.

It’s just a power dynamic - it could have been about anything really and I suspect if you look back with fresh eyes you might see plenty of previous incidents where you adapted to or were coerced by her nuanced criticism.

@ESGdance this^ is so true. Its like scales are falling from my eyes. The signs were all there but never saw them because they never escalated before.

Looking back through those messages she sent DH, it's all about her. What she thinks, how she feels, how she thinks DH shouldn't tell me etc etc.

I had another epiphany today too. She has a DSis who she doesn't get on with and is always criticising because she thinks she is selfish. DSis husband is perfectly lovely and her daughters are so helpful, so MIL views her as selfish and petty rather than someone who struggles with her mental health. Essentially her DSis doesn't deserve to struggle with her mental health because she hasnt had it as bad as MIL.

See any similarities?!?

@pictish

“If she can’t keep up with all the help she has it’s not ds that’s the problem.”

What…is she your marriage’s line manager? Like fuck she is. She’s carrying on like she’s conducting a performance review. Jesus.

Its bonkers isn't it! So aggressive and forceful.

@Ivyonafence and @ESGdance thank you for explaining all the dynamics. It has really helped to open my eyes.
Toxic Parents is on its way and the In Laws book will be here by the end of the week.

Know what is right in your heart as a mother - and quietly get on with it - you owe no explanation to his DM for anything you do.
This is a lovely encouragement, thank you. It's so easy as a mother to feel guilt over everything and to be made to feel you're not enough. I'm going to memorize that.

I was 1 of a very large family and my DF tended to get violent when he was angry so yes, it was abusive and there was no 1 on 1 time with parents, unless you were being disciplined!

I have the screenshots, of everything. 1st thing I did.

@TerfranosaurusVagina

It’s just a power dynamic - it could have been about anything really and I suspect if you look back with fresh eyes you might see plenty of previous incidents where you adapted to or were coerced by her nuanced criticism.

@ESGdance this^ is so true. Its like scales are falling from my eyes. The signs were all there but never saw them because they never escalated before.

Looking back through those messages she sent DH, it's all about her. What she thinks, how she feels, how she thinks DH shouldn't tell me etc etc.

I had another epiphany today too. She has a DSis who she doesn't get on with and is always criticising because she thinks she is selfish. DSis husband is perfectly lovely and her daughters are so helpful, so MIL views her as selfish and petty rather than someone who struggles with her mental health. Essentially her DSis doesn't deserve to struggle with her mental health because she hasnt had it as bad as MIL.

See any similarities?!?

Know that she gossips about you behind your back the way she gossips about her sister. Characters like her are essentially insecure, bitter and self absorbed and spend most of their time projecting and putting down others in order to keep their own fragile egos afloat.

Don’t waste your precious, finite and fragile energy trying to appease, change or understand her further - it will be futile and just enrage her.

Conserve your emotional energy to invest positively in your own MH and then spend time with people who are emotionally calm and who’s company brings you comfort and joy.

Withdraw and emotionally detach from her (even if it is just in your head) and emotionally protect yourself, your marriage and your child from her histrionics and damaging controlling behaviour. You don’t have to declare that to anyone - just take the actions.

From a very practical point of view here, I work in a primary school, and have done for many years; the children who were kept at home and didn't attend a nursery/preschool/childminder and didn't catch all the germs/bugs/illnesses going during their first few years, seem to catch them all as soon as they start primary school, and miss days and days of school with tonsillitis, chest infections, sickness bugs etc.
The children who have been at nursery or similar since being small, seem to have a rather more robust immune system, having already been exposed to a lot of illnesses during their earlier years, and start school without too much of an issue with illness. There's definitely a correlation.

So if MIL wants a reason to bash you on the nursery and catching all the germs scenario - there's actually not much sense in her argument, its either now, or when your DS starts school! Personally, I think its better to get them all over and done with now..... chickenpox and HF&M and all the other lovely delights they pick up!

I am sorry to read that your own father was abusive in a different way

It's very difficult when neither of you has a parenting model that you want to emulate; OTOH, you can only do better.

Subject to the normal caveats about child safety, it is really important that you and your husband bring your child up in the way you two want and not in the way that a third person wants. Everything else flows from that.

You willing to see that she is actually a terrible person now?
I wouldn't be in a room with her again.

Hello all. I thought I'd give you a happy ending update. I read the books meaning to point out to DH where exactly his parents had gone wrong, only to discover that both my parents were toxic too - 1 violent and 1 enabler.
I spoke to the counsellor to arrange marriage counselling but during that phone call she said it sounded like I needed therapy 1st before going into marriage counselling. So I did the therapy, got diagnosed with depression and anxiety, went on sertraline, and wow! What a difference! I now have much more self belief and self confidence.
DH stood up to MIL which was very brave of him and she actually APOLOGISED (albeit a I'm sorry if you felt...) to me. My therapist helped me to lay down sensible boundaries to her, and on that basis, DS still goes there once a week ish and has a lovely relationship with her.
I've backed right off from her and dont tell her anything I don't have to. She has never commented again on nursery and DS absolutely loves it there. Now he's 3 he goes for 2 days a week and has come on in leaps and bounds in his development.

Thanks all for your help to see with clear eyes. ❤

Oh well done @TerfranosaurusVagina So impressed that you've put all that work in and got a really decent result!

You really are amazing.

What a woman and what a mother.

Your husband is a lucky man.

Delighted to read your boy is well.

Best of luck going forward.

I think there are a lot of bored and over involved women of 45 plus who live their lives via kids and grandchildren and whilst it's nice to be close, there's a big difference between close and caring and totally interfering. My MIL is no longer with us but my H had to put his foot down more than once whilst she popped our son for appalling local 'haircuts ' and commented on his clothes not all being perfectly ironed etc. - I worked full time from him being 12,weeks- as I had to and maternity leave was very poor at the time

That's a great update, I'm so pleased for you!

Stocking update! I reckon posters who update (especially brilliant updates like this) should get mumsnet awards. Nice one, OP. 🏆🏅

Thank you! I love a happily ever after too! Our marriage has since gone from strength to strength since and DH has been very supportive of my MH. I'm currently doing CBT to help with my anxiety, after cutting down the sertraline to TTC no.2. 🙂

stonking, not stocking!!

Lovely update OP. Well done you!