Has somebody abducted my lovely, kind, thoughtful MIL and stolen her phone?

[TerfranosaurusVagina]

Name changed for this as it is so bonkers and outing. My DS is 2.5 and I've booked him in to nursery for 1 morning a week to give myself a bit of a break as I've been struggling a bit recently plus he is getting virtually no peer interaction. I'm a SAHM and he doesnt like playing by himself so is always clamouring for attention.
I thought I had a brilliant relationship with my MIL until last week when I mentioned this, and she was horrified.
She went off on one about how hard her life was bringing up 3 kids with no support and an alcoholic husband, told me she thought I was spending too much time at the allotment that I hadn't been to since Christmas , that he was "too young" to send to nursery, he'd get completely overtired and a million and 1 other objections.
I wasnt too fazed, she's very traditional thinking, and replied calmly telling her all the good points about nursery and thought that was the end of it. It wasnt.
That evening she messaged my husband asking him what he thought about it, he told her he couldn't see a problem with it, to which she replied, "It is, he's only 2!" He replied saying he's not really had much to do with it as it was all my doing.
The next evening, DH met FIL as they were doing some work together and FIL mentioned she had been very upset about it and had been crying. At this point I thought Ive made my point, so she knows where I stand.
A week later she messaged me on Monday to let me know that she could look after him as usual on the Tuesday pm. I told her not to worry as he had conjunctivitis and was feeling rubbish.
She replied saying "this was one of the reasons she can't BEAR to think of him going to nursery. He gets ill every time he gets overtired (bollocks) and will catch everything going.

I wanted to put a stop to this pretty quick because she ruminates on stuff like this and just doesnt stop thinking about it, so I wrote a very arsey message, slept on it, then took all of the emotion out the next morning before sending it. I wrote 'I understand you are very much against DS going to nursery. I'm sending him for some badly needed social development and to preserve my mental health. Can we please leave it at that?'

She came back with some very passive aggressive comments about how advanced DS is and how he is not expected to learn to share till he's 3½ anyway, then one about me not able to get out the house early, and then at the end, offered to take DS from 8am on Tuesdays to make it a longer day for me.

I ignored the anal comments though I was cross about them, and just replied thanking her for the offer, and taking her up on it.

5 hours later she replied rescinding it, saying it would be unfair as well as the 7.30 nursery starts.

I'm seething so I haven't responded yet as I dont trust myself to be polite yet.

Just WTAF?!??!?
Has somebody abducted my lovely, kind, thoughtful MIL and stolen her phone?

The emotional incest / enmeshment with your DH has impacted your marriage.

It’s good that you can see the problems with this. It’s obvious that your DH has not disentangled himself from her obsessive and controlling ways.

What she is doing with her love bombing of your DS is exactly the same. She is emotionally enmeshing him right before your eyes. She knows no other way of relating.

It’s very unhealthy and I would not be allowing your DS to be enmeshed here. Don’t let her have him one to one because she doesn’t have healthy or appropriate emotional boundaries.

Look at her interactions with new eyes to see what’s happening.

The more you post the more I just don’t buy that you really believe this woman is kind lovely and thoughtful….

There are multiple red flags throughout especially with regard to her relationship with her own son.

• Ignores and disrespects your wishes (hair cutting and puddings)
• Abused and continues to abuse your DH via enmeshment and emotional incest this is one of my key rage points with my own mil)
• continues to negatively impacts your marriage with her fuck wittery and your DH is still unable to draw healthy boundaries as evidenced by this episode and his pussyfooting around nursery

And you think she is lovely kind and thoughtful????

I just DONT get it

@TerfranosaurusVagina

There's nothing like making an offer so you can snatch it away again to make a point and punish someone for not doing what you want!!

I don't see what her problem is.

He's not far short of the age that toddlers would go to playgroup and some did take them before 3. So I don't see what you're doing that's so shocking. Daft woman

He'll have a lovely time and hopefully so will you

Ooh.
Totally undermining your attempts to discipline your child, and cutting his hair without anyone's permission (his OR yours) are major boundary crosses.

Very "not nice".

I think you've overlooked a lot, probably a lot more, as being "that's just what grandparents do, isn't it?" if you could do that with the pudding thing! You'd probably be wrong.

This woman does not have healthy boundaries at all.

@Totalwasteofpaper

The more you post the more I just don’t buy that you really believe this woman is kind lovely and thoughtful….

There are multiple red flags throughout especially with regard to her relationship with her own son.

• Ignores and disrespects your wishes (hair cutting and puddings)
• Abused and continues to abuse your DH via enmeshment and emotional incest this is one of my key rage points with my own mil)
• continues to negatively impacts your marriage with her fuck wittery and your DH is still unable to draw healthy boundaries as evidenced by this episode and his pussyfooting around nursery

And you think she is lovely kind and thoughtful????

I just DONT get it

She is lovely. Like people have pointed out and I am coming to see more and more, she just doesn't have appropriate boundaries. That doesn't make her a horrible person. It just means I need to be more assertive and stand my ground.

• she never criticizes me
• she'll often lmk if she is shopping and get any little bits I ask for
• she has never failed to be kind
• she is always welcoming if you just drop in on her
• she always offers a bed if she knows DH is away because she knows how I hate it since our burglary
• she gave a day up to help me make curtains for our bedroom, saving £££
• she'd gladly do anything for me
• lots more than I can think of off the top of my head.

And thats not taking into account the way she bends over backwards for DS, or bakes bread and makes homemade soup for him to take back home so I've got something quick and easy in the freezer for him.

Sounds like she's projecting her issues onto you. Just because she feels that she suffered as a SAHM doesn't mean you have to.

Im a SAHM and my DD started pre-school just before her 3rd birthday, it's been fantastic for her as she only saw myself and my husband through the pandemic and became very withdrawn. It's been fantastic for her social development, she now has a little set of friends, enjoys the activities and always comes home absolutely on top of the world.

Re illness, it's probably a good thing for him to mix and pick things up to build up some immunity. Yes we had a rough run of it when DD started mixing with others with all sorts of viruses coming home but that didn't last long.

She is projecting her unhappy past onto you. It is jealousy that you will have free time like she didn't. Get yourself down to your allotment and enjoy your one day of freedom to yourself. You are a person not just a mother.

update DH finally messaged MIL today. Apparently he didn't want to ring her because he was in between calls. I asked him how it went and he gave me a sanitised version but I have just, probably stupidly, looked at her messages and she is still at it.

She went on (again) about the allotment and how like my own DM I was becoming and how sad it.was that it's come to this (I don't know what 'this' is).

She doesn't think we are protective enough of him because we take him paddleboarding (fully kitted out and only in flat water)

She is only being honest and what we do is obviously our business though clearly she sees it as more her business

She didn't want DH to mention all of this to me as it wasn't worth the feeling it would cause.

DH tries to stand up for me saying he appreciates her concerns but doesnt want our relationship spoilt. Unfortunately he doesnt actually tell her to back off

She replies saying she has only ever tried to enjoy the best of me
Then in the very next message says I said that nursery will help me keep up with the house. She doubts there will ever be as little pressure (due to covid) and "if she cant keep up, with all the help she has, its not DS that's the problem". "All the help" being her childminding for 1 afternoon per week.

She is actually most upset by the fact I said he was going for 'badly needed social development'. So maybe she feels that reflects badly on her?

She then repeated the bit about me not being able to get out of the house early without DH. And that she sees it as a way of me getting myself out of bed (not going to lie, the structure of doing it is part of the reason but I'm not a completely lazy arsehole)

She finished off by saying You live with the situation. And if you think thats a good solution, thats your business. Then thanks him for being so honest and open.

Any armchair psychologists want to weigh in?

I feel like she thinks I'm a shit mum, a crap housewife and cant be trusted to make any decisions around my own son, so she must step in and send forth her own opinions. Forcefully.

Ive honestly never seen her so forceful or meddly in all of our marriage.

I definitely want to step back with contact with her, but I need to get DH to see how controlling she is being and what I am doing is not "punishment" but just enforcing my boundaries. Any ideas? He is still very much under her thrall and the thought of offending her is not dreamt about.

She messaged yesterday offering to have DS for the afternoon as usual but we have come down with food poisoning so thankfully that was a very valid reason not to go. I need to bite the bullet but would prefer to have DH on board first so we can show a united front

Good lord, what a piece of work she is.

I don't know where to start. So much is wrong with that.

She's beyond help, but you can work with DH to improve boundaries in your marriage.

Oh boy… Food poisoning is undoubtedly due to your terribly lax personal hygiene, (you are reverting to your mother’s standards, after all…) or one of the grubby, germy CHEEEEELDRUN at daycare. Perhaps one of hippie oiks at the allottment (undoubtedly unvaccinated, all of them!)… What were you thinking, @TerfranosaurusVagina? Suspect this is going to blow right up.
😉
Hope you all feel better asap.

@Justilou1

Oh boy… Food poisoning is undoubtedly due to your terribly lax personal hygiene, (you are reverting to your mother’s standards, after all…) or one of the grubby, germy CHEEEEELDRUN at daycare. Perhaps one of hippie oiks at the allottment (undoubtedly unvaccinated, all of them!)… What were you thinking, *@TerfranosaurusVagina*? Suspect this is going to blow right up. 😉 Hope you all feel better asap.

Haha I wouldn't be surprised if she thought that now I've seen what she really thinks!

Its a pain because I was supposed to be taking DS in to nursery tomorrow for a settling in session and thats all been delayed. Plus I've had to strip our bed, DS cot and about 4 different outfits that he's hooshed up on, and even the cat has joined in, puking on the garage floor! What a wonderful day

I think you should read Susan Forwards books : toxic in laws and toxic parents.

Your MIL is massively undermining your marriage and you need to build some boundaries. You're right, that will be hard to do when you're not on the same page as DH.

@TerfranosaurusVagina

update DH finally messaged MIL today. Apparently he didn't want to ring her because he was in between calls. I asked him how it went and he gave me a sanitised version but I have just, probably stupidly, looked at her messages and she is still at it.

She went on (again) about the allotment and how like my own DM I was becoming and how sad it.was that it's come to this (I don't know what 'this' is).

She doesn't think we are protective enough of him because we take him paddleboarding (fully kitted out and only in flat water)

She is only being honest and what we do is obviously our business though clearly she sees it as more her business

She didn't want DH to mention all of this to me as it wasn't worth the feeling it would cause.

DH tries to stand up for me saying he appreciates her concerns but doesnt want our relationship spoilt. Unfortunately he doesnt actually tell her to back off

She replies saying she has only ever tried to enjoy the best of me
Then in the very next message says I said that nursery will help me keep up with the house. She doubts there will ever be as little pressure (due to covid) and "if she cant keep up, with all the help she has, its not DS that's the problem". "All the help" being her childminding for 1 afternoon per week.

She is actually most upset by the fact I said he was going for 'badly needed social development'. So maybe she feels that reflects badly on her?

She then repeated the bit about me not being able to get out of the house early without DH. And that she sees it as a way of me getting myself out of bed (not going to lie, the structure of doing it is part of the reason but I'm not a completely lazy arsehole)

She finished off by saying You live with the situation. And if you think thats a good solution, thats your business. Then thanks him for being so honest and open.

There's a lot of unpack there, but I'd start here:

She told DH not to share what she said with you. By creating a 'secret' between herself and DH she is wedging herself between you and treating you like a child/outsider.

DH's primary relationship is with his wife, it's not appropriate to include his mother as a third party in these conversations, let alone to your exclusion.

What she is saying is deeply undermining and insulting. She is not supportive of you, she is tearing you down. Your DH has created a forum for her to do so. She's created 'sides' here, not you. She created the side when she criticised you and put her DH in a crossroads of A) allowing his wife to be disrespected and B) pushing back on his mother.

Your DH has chosen A, probably not because he thinks she's right but because he wants an easy life for himself and he knows what she is like when challenged.

That wouldn't be ok with me. Ask your DH exactly how much disrespect and insulting commentary you deserve? The only correct answer is none.

He needs to draw the boundary with his mother, and that can take a long time. I really recommend you start therapy now, as the healthy thing for you to do is step back from MiL and if he doesn't support you then that's a lot of pressure on your marriage.

To be honest this goes beyond MIL projecting any issues on you She has escalated her efforts to get what she wants and she is now undermining you and toxic to your and your dh relationship

I would ask dh to se his phone and her messages and see his reaction. He is keeping it from you - is he trying to protect you or is he trying to take sides or just keep the peace - either way his loyalty is questionable. If his mum is in his ear saying things like that it s horrific. She s also manipulating him not to tell you and keep secrets and take sides. Horrible divisive behaviour designed to eventually wear down the relationship.
It would be worth you and dh seeking councilling or at the very least having some very open conversations-

Regarding MIL I would be very upset personally, she s very poisonous a wolf in sheeps clothing, she s making you curtains then undermining your ability to parent and your relationship with dh.

This is not a projection issue this is a MIL who needs to be stepped back.

You probably need to use her less frequently for minding and give her less info about your decisions or plans.

To be honest if those comments weee about me my MIL would never darken my door again.

Looks like your MIL isn't actually kind and lovely after all, but was just doing lots of helpful things because she thinks you're so incapable without her. DH must surely see this?

I wouldn’t be happy with my dh adopting a neutral open position while mil slagged me off to him (although I’m sure this does happen loads!!), I’d expect him to say: what you’ve said is very narrow-minded, offensive and over-bearing. We love you very much but now onwards please don’t give me or X your views on these issues as it will affect our relationship with you.

Your MIL’s “kind acts” are a fake.

They are a Trojan horse to get into your home, marriage, head so that she can manipulate and destabilise you and enmesh your DH and your DC even more right under your nose.

She is watching, twisting, judging and keeping a negative score of everything in your life to use to undermine you directly and indirectly.

You are the enemy to her - she will erode your confidence until she takes control of your DC and your DH.

You still don’t understand abusive manipulative and coercive dynamics because you think having poor boundaries is just having poor boundaries and nothing to do with subjugation, entitlement, arrogance, selfishness and disrespect.

I wonder if your own background was emotionally deficient, neglected or abusive or unboundaried that this is acceptable or normal to you?

Your DH was too scared to have the conversation face to face with her so he texted her - and that was handy for you because it’s now all there in black and white.

Screen shot that conversation and get him to couples counselling - he has been trained to be afraid and enmeshed - he needs support to know that this is toxic and to untangle himself.

Please get some professional emotional support for yourself as don’t expect your DH to lead the way here as it will take him time to come around.

I would be doing “grey rock” and total LC with your MIL - she will be similarly and subtly undermining you to your child - in a drip drip drip to break your bond. She’s effectively grooming your DC.

The texts are her first really stupid overt move.

She is actively trying to undermine your marriage.

Get screen shots of that chat before he deletes them.

I think couples therapy is a must or else you could be at the very beginning of the end of your marriage.

This will not improve.

She is a third wheel in your marriage and she wants to be primary influence on your son.

Do not use her for childcare.

These are your days and you no longer need it.

Do not be forced to spend time with her during YOUR week.

Now that you know what she thinks of you, you are perfectly entitled to say you are not spending time during your week.

I wouldn't be pretending you haven't seen those texts.

Get into therapy.

If your husband wants to visit his mother without you, that is his business.

Perhaps you can visit with him once a month.

Visiting to occur NOT in your home.

The couples therapy is very important.
The texts can be a useful starting point.

This IS who she is.

You would be very unwise to not take this very seriously.

Your husband is nervous of her and that makes her even more influential.

Stand your ground here, but be prepared for him to not have your back unfortunately.

PPs are spot on, especially ivyonafence and ESGdance. I recommended the Susan Forward books a few pages back, and the more you post the clearer it becomes that you and DH need to read them. I think couple's counselling may well be necessary too given how enmeshed he is with her.

Sadly this does remind me of my situation a bit; MIL was seemingly lovely (although the signs of dysfunction were there) but turned against me openly after DC1 was born DH and I only survived it because he supported me and we did couple's counselling.

“If she can’t keep up with all the help she has it’s not ds that’s the problem.”

What…is she your marriage’s line manager? Like fuck she is. She’s carrying on like she’s conducting a performance review. Jesus.

Well call me petty but I'd be constantly asking your DH if "it has really come to this" about everything from now on. "Are we having peas for tea again? Has it come to this" etc. And I would witter on constantly about "with all the help I have..."

It's gone beyond her disgruntlement over you having more help than she did or making different life choices, to her manipulation of your DH and constant dripping of poison because she'd make a better wife, housewife, mother etc than you.

How do you think it would go down if you went through her messages to him and "translated" them for him?

How many other children do you have?