Dating Thread 224: Keeping it casual or searching for The One

[WeWantTheFinestWines]

I'll cut and paste the rules in a minute

@VanGoghsDog He takes 2 weeks off at xmas and a few days for fishing trips and that's it.
He does have enough money to take days off unpaid but I feel guilty asking him to do that. We did a few days away together for our 1 year anniversary but I've not asked since.

@Heartbeats0708 That's exactly what I worry when his son is older, that he'll either suddenly want to spend time with me (when I wasn't good enough before) or even worse in some ways, go off and start doing his hobbies instead so I still won't see him.

I think I'm convenient when it suits, he's got a girlfriend on tap without actually giving her much time. Although too be fair I'm not that much on tap due to some evenings being for work.

If he didn't have me he'd have to make the effort to meet someone else and I don't know if he wants that.
Before me he was a year single and was meeting women from Fab for casual sex, when he met me I would call in on my way to or from work and he used to joke that he didn't have to make much effort as I literally just turned up.

We've gone from FB to FWB to relationship but nothing much has changed except the label and the fact we became exclusive when we started a relationship.

I think the not seeing each other makes everything worse so I need to review it in a few weeks and see how I feel after talking to my counsellor and go from there.
Also mercury is in retrograde for another few weeks so I won't do anything until that has passed (that's a bit woo woo I know😂)

@SortingItOut I don’t think it’s self sabotaging to want more than you are getting now, as most people would want more than a day a week and at that only a few hours essentially and rarely out of the house. Especially given his stubborn mandate that he will not make time for you ever at a weekend. I do not think it would make him a less good father if he planned a weekend with you once a quarter!
I get your reflection on your attachment style but don’t conflate that with accepting breadcrumbs because you might sometime feel in a seemingly contrary way.

@SortingItOut

Maybe have a think/explore why you are feeling guilty about asking him to take some days off to spend time with you? That seems the logical thing to do. It doesn’t need to be weekly.

If he’s not uncomfortable with it and it’s the “make or break” for your relationship I’m not sure why you should be?

Finances are always tricky and people have strong views/past experiences on them but it’s hardly asking him to fund your Gucci habit!

If you’re self employed (Male or female) one of the bonuses is you can have flexibility.

Placemarking

Firmly on the smitten bench with my lovely MrD. We've had a few little storms to weather but it's all good 💖

Checking in.

My date with Mr Farmer was lovely, such a nice decent gentleman. He brought me flowers 💐 we are meeting again on Saturday.

Don't want to get too carried away as things can change but my gut feeling says he's a real good one, which, quite frankly is a novelty.

Also, no anxiety which I tend to get with him.

He said last night he likes me and wants to see me again, he's not chatting to others.

I think I need someone reassuring and straightforward like that.

With men in general, not him

Sounds great @Bangheadhere40 💖

Doggie is back home. MrD was here last night too. All is well in Bella World

@VanGoghsDog He takes 2 weeks off at xmas and a few days for fishing trips and that's it.
He does have enough money to take days off unpaid but I feel guilty asking him to do that. We did a few days away together for our 1 year anniversary but I've not asked since.

I've been self employed, I know the feelings well. But even so, it's just about planning. I used to budget on having forty unpaid days a year, though I generally had about fifteen, but I always built in that flexibility. Of course, it depends how much you get paid and the type of work, but I'm sure if you were a priority he'd be booking something else in.

I also think he could do one Sunday a month with you. I'd want more commitment. The mother seems to see very little of this kid, there's no shame in her having to have him one Sunday a month.

also think he could do one Sunday a month with you. I'd want more commitment. The mother seems to see very little of this kid, there's no shame in her having to have him one Sunday a month

I agree I’m afraid

@SortingItOut I agree re the self-employed thing, this has been me for 23 years and though I don’t take as much as the statutory holiday allowance, I do take time during the week if it’s important. I think by this stage it should be important? It’s not like you’re demanding he turns work down I assume, just that he plans in some quality time with you.

@SortingItOut thank you. I just feel so confused about what's happened, I think it was my overthinking playing up and I put us in a situation where I sort of backed him into a corner by asking him for reassurance on something, then he wouldn't give it (I'm starting to wonder whether he's avoidant actually - which I know would mean I need to let it go as it just won't work). Then I felt so panicked I basically just ended it, or at least may as well have done as I admitted to having had doubts about our compatibility from the beginning (which is true, but we'd just had a lovely christmas period where they'd started to go so I didn't necessarily need to say). I don't even know if I meant it all, and we left it saying we'd both have a think. It felt like I was pushing him to end it.

This was after he'd been distant with me / preoccupied for a couple of weeks (seeing me regularly but hardly listening to what I was saying / frequently distracted by his phone / no eye contact / less sexual contact etc). To be fair he was moving house under pretty traumatic circumstances so I should have given him some slack but I did for a bit and then the anxiety took over after another awkward evening where we had nothing to say to eachother, and my previous misgivings about our compatibility took over.

Now I feel like i've thrown everything away over a couple of weeks of insecurity. However, I do need someone who can reassure me if I have a little wobble, which I will do every now and again. I am in no way clingy or demanding in relationships in general, but I do need 'words of affirmation' every now and again (in love language terms) and it seems his reaction was to back away rather than give them, which was really hurtful and perhaps a sign we're not compatible anyway? In the book Attached (which I've found super helpful) it does say that a Secure person will be able to reassure and soothe you, and if they can't they are likely an avoidant and you'd be better off letting them go if you have anxious attachment (like me).

It's also really hurtful as I'd gone away with him for five days to his hometown and met his family and friends over christmas, and it was straight after that he went distant. I shared that I'd had a nice time and that it felt a bit strange him backing off after that and basically asked if he'd had a nice time too, and he essentially wouldn't say he had, even though I could see he had? Perhaps he was feeling insecure as I had said on the trip it was all a bit much and I needed a few hours to myself. I explained it was just me being a bit introverted but he didn't seem to respect that and I really had to push for it. He said he'd realised whilst we were away that it was a really big thing for me to go there and that it had gotten intense (he took me to his mum's grave and shed a few tears for instance) and he sounded regretful, which really hurt my feelings.

Marking place, can't keep up with this thread.

Unless he cancels, first date this time round Friday for coffee.

Forgot how nervous and anxious meeting complete strangers gets me!

@SortingItOut maybe my issue is mercury in retrograde, I should have heeded that advice!

Do you know what you'd actually like from him? Could you sum it up in a sentence or two?

I'm really terrible at expressing my own needs for fear they won't get met. But I feel like not saying things then means they snowball and feed a little pit of unhappiness inside.

Sometimes disturbing the status quo can be good, once you know exactly what you want that's different.

@VanGoghsDog and @Badbaddog Mr K is a builder so his work is booked in blocks of 3 - 6 months at a time.
He is booked up until the autumn. No holidays are planned either by him or his partner, occasionally they will take a few days off for various reasons but this would only be planned a few weeks in advance.

In terms of his son Mr K is much more hands on and there is only them 2 in an uncluttered house. At the mothers the house is cluttered, there is only 1 TV (although he has a TV for himself this was never set up in his room and is in a different bedroom), there is a toddler aged 2 who is into everything and the mothers new partner has his 2 children living there too so the house is crowded.
Any child would prefer to be elsewhere if they had the chance given the sole attention is on them.

If she has something on then Mr K may have his son 1 day less at the weekend (once or twice a year), similarly if Mr K has something on he would have him less but only the minimum. For example when we went out for Mr K's Dad's birthday he had his son from 10am until 4.30pm on the Saturday and then collected him again by 10am Sunday. I was with Mr K from 6pm until 8am - there was no suggestion of spending the Sunday together.

@Stayingstrongish your description of disorganised attachment reminds me of myself... hmm

@StartingAgain33 Do you think its all moving a bit too fast?
5 days together at christmas which included meeting family and going to his mum's grave seems very intense for this early on.
Maybe he is taking a step back or maybe he is overwhelmed with his living situation (is this the one who's landlord was advertising his flat without him knowing?), moving house is very stressful.

You may have also dented his confidence by asking for time on your own when you were away, not everyone understand introverts/space to regroup.
When I've been away with an old FWB and then Mr K I made it clear I can feel smothered if I don't get time alone, I can usually manage a couple of days but 5 days would have required a lot of me time.

You need to be better able to self soothe when you are anxious/need reassurance.
I know mirrorballs and betterplace go through similar but have coping mechanisms.

If you like him can you go back to the fun of dating and not do anything too intense for a while?

@SortingItOut it’s great that he’s such a successful builder, being so booked up - go Mr K! But why do they not schedule in some time out? It’s not a particularly healthy way of operating. I would definitely at least raise the subject with him.

@StartingAgain33 I would be happy with 2 meet ups a week with the very occasional weekend day thrown in. I'm happy to settle for just the 2 meets a week for now as I've got a busy few months coming up.

2 meet ups should be possible but one will be very time limited due to my evening meetings so actual hours together will still be small which isn't great.

Either I change my job to the standard 9 - 5 or I end things with Mr K/ask for FWB because that way I could see other people on my free nights (the ones where Mr K has his son) and get some of my needs met that way. (All these are quite drastic options so I'll likely hold fire a while and see what happens in February)

@Badbaddog His business partner has a wife and 2 kids and still doesn't plan in holidays except 2 weeks at christmas.

Checking in. Not feeling the dating love currently . A little bit fed up of kissing frogs 🐸

@SortingItOut I was initially hesitant to go away for five days, definitely, as I knew I needed the alone time but he sort of pitched it as we would get time alone, in the countryside, and I could have breaks etc and then it didn't quite turn out like that I got quite overwhelmed / knackered. I had worried it was too intense but actually by the time we left i'd really gotten into it, loved everyone I met, was having a lovely time and didn't want to come home which I thought was a good sign we got on.

Then to have him go distant afterwards really rocked me, especially as he'd seemed so keen, but yes I think he probably felt a little insecure himself. I did try to explain it was nothing to do with him that I needed alone time while we were away (I literally got two hours!!) but he didn't seem to want to listen or talk about it properly which was stressful as I was making a real effort with everyone and felt it unfair.

The thing about self soothing is I can do it to a degree but then sometimes find I'm just ignoring issues or not being open about who I am. I spent months and months in a relationship with an avoidant, not saying what I needed and then not getting what I needed, and finally when I did I realised he couldn't give it to me and it was a waste of time. - he just wanted a dating buddy basically.

So this time I felt it was better to be honest with him. My therapist has said it's important I can be open about these things from time to time and have someone who reacts well, so in a way it was our first 'test' on that front after 3 months and it failed dismally.

I'm not sure what the right thing is - just pretend I'm fine all the time and only bring things up after x amount of months? Surely I need someone who can say nice things from time to time and not have to be asked? I feel like if he was Secure I wouldn't be feeling this way as he wouldn't be distancing himself and going quiet and weird?

I'd like to think we can go back to dating but I think this may have gone too far / gotten too serious now. In general I find i'm overanlysing the fact we don't laugh a lot already - he's quite prone to melancholy etc - and I just really want to have fun and lightness! I know I can have it as I've had it in previous relationships and I think this issue is feeding my insecurity / worry we're not quite right.

@SortingItOut that does sound re Mr K. Having it be so regimented is hard, although I guess it helps build a feeling of consistency. That doesn't sound good re holidays - not healthy at all. You're obviously doing a good job at self soothing though :) I guess if he's affectionate with you otherwise / gives you attention in other ways like texting lots or saying nice things that could make up for some of the lack of physical contact?

@StartingAgain33 You should definitely state your needs no matter how long you've been together but its making sure that need can be soothed by him and if its not what then?

When you met him he had the drama of his flat and you were worried then about things?
Is the melancholy actually linked to moving house and do you think once his housing is sorted he'll be more cheerful or is this his personality.

I do wonder if its gone too far to come back from, maybe next time don't do an intense 5 day trip so early on that involves too much serious stuff. I think your gut knew it could go wrong but you relaxed that boundary in good faith and he didn't keep to his promise.

Personally I would bin off anyone negative, I had enough if it with my ex husband who saw the negative in everything and its draining.
I don't mean negative about proper events like death, accidents, house moves etc but general overall negativity.

Lovely update @Bangheadhere40 so glad for you, you’ve waited long enough for a good date x