Dating Thread 224: Keeping it casual or searching for The One

[WeWantTheFinestWines]

I'll cut and paste the rules in a minute

ibelieveinmirrorballs

You are wise , and it’s always better when you know why , and can agree
Yeah you’ll still feel sad and have a weep 😢

But it’s total shit being into someone and knowing in parallel it’s not right for you
It’s majorly anxiety inducing x

@ibelieveinmirrorballs How terribly grown up of you both.
This is exactly what relationships shoukd be like.
Does he know why he is emotionally unavailable?
Does he not want to address that so in the future he can have a 'normal' relationship?

I think you've learnt so much from meeting him - people come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime💗

Ah thanks butterfly.

I'm not sure about Saturday as I don't know what to do. He lives 2 hours away so it's a bit of a pain just meeting halfway, I was going to maybe invite him up here to stay but I don't want things to go too quickly and want to enjoy the fun part for a change!

I'm not sure what to do.

@SortingItOut I was going to suggest you post your tips as there are a lot of newbies here and it's really helpful / useful

@Bangheadhere40

Ah thanks butterfly.

I'm not sure about Saturday as I don't know what to do. He lives 2 hours away so it's a bit of a pain just meeting halfway, I was going to maybe invite him up here to stay but I don't want things to go too quickly and want to enjoy the fun part for a change!

I'm not sure what to do.

What time of day are you meeting? Have you discussed whether or not you're both up for sex and what happens after sex eg is this no strings, or see where it goes, or does that mean its time for commitment?

if you haven't had that conversation I'd stick to meeting half way, maybe even for lunch or early dinner so its not too close to 'bedtime'

date zero is where you decide it you want to see him again and now you're on date one which is when you decide if you fancy him

@ibelieveinmirrorballs

very glad you posted that as I'm "dating twinning" there with my MrHedgehog situation (also an academic) and I'm coming to the same conclusion.

I'm an early researcher but not so "into the lifestyle" and I think for people who have been in it all their life its very socially and intellectually "closed shop"?

Three month wonder, and like you say "the meets are great" BUT there's that ambiguity the rest of the time.

I reckon the way forward is to hopefully just stay loosely connected with no 1-1 dating or intimacy as he's a cool guy, but the "great connection then the come-down in between" routine just isn't it for me.

It's like I've made the decision to detach, and it's sad but a bit of a "monkey off my back" emotionally.

I hope your chat goes ok, I'm probably going to "twin" and have a similar one at some stage!

Good advice bella...

He has told me he has deleted the apps and is wanting to just see how it goes with me, so I guess that's exclusive 🤔

We've not talked about sex or anything....I do fancy him a lot though.

I'm free from mid afternoon Saturday until Sunday.

@Bangheadhere40

I agree with @BelladiMamma - I get the vibe you want to consider dating him seriously and that's the vibe he's giving - why not just enjoy the dates out without the complication of sex and physical intimacy? It's harder to move back from that once it's happened?

Just find a nice dinner or lunch spot to meet at and enjoy a night or day out!

@Bangheadhere40 Don't be drawn in to the deleting the apps just because he has.

If you have not specifically had the exclusive chat you are not exclusive.

If you're after sex then invite him up but if you want to enjoy the fun of early dating I'd plan an activity and then early dinner for date 1.
Don't let the distance make you go faster than you want.

Sorting's dating tips on exclusivity/what are we:

Nowadays the questions you need to ask to establish things are IMHO:

1. Are you on the apps? You may need to expand on this as he may think having a profile but not logging in means he is off it. Also is his profile hidden or deleted?

1. Is he multi dating? Not multi dating doesnt mean you are boyfriend/girlfriend, it just means he isnt dating others?

Does he envisage he wants to multidate now or in the future?

1. Are you exclusive? This is different to the boyfriend/girlfriend question. Is he chatting/flirting/sexting/emotionally or physically intimate with anyone else?

Some people think exclusive is sexual exclusivity but I think sexting others is not an exclusive behaviour.

1. What are you? Casually dating? Going with the flow? Boyfriend/girlfriend?

Lots in between all those too.

1. For further down the line....what do you think is cheating? Years ago I never thought I'd have this conversation with someone but after my husband emotionally cheated I felt I should and so Mr K and I had the chat once we'd had the exclusive and boyfriend/girlfriend chat. It was important for me (and him actually) that we had similar views on what constituted cheating and what was acceptable behaviour.

Think about what you want now and in the future and your answers to those questions and then ask him.
If you're intimate already then questions 1 -3 are perfectly fine to ask for now.

Question 4 can come later or if 1 - 3 go well.

Thanks all, I remember those questions 🙂

I'm quite happy to delete my apps and focus on him, never been one for multi dating.

Sounds a better idea with no sex yet - as you say it's hard to come back from. I'll have a think

[quote ReturnOfTheBunk]@ibelieveinmirrorballs

very glad you posted that as I'm "dating twinning" there with my MrHedgehog situation (also an academic) and I'm coming to the same conclusion.

I'm an early researcher but not so "into the lifestyle" and I think for people who have been in it all their life its very socially and intellectually "closed shop"?

Three month wonder, and like you say "the meets are great" BUT there's that ambiguity the rest of the time.

I reckon the way forward is to hopefully just stay loosely connected with no 1-1 dating or intimacy as he's a cool guy, but the "great connection then the come-down in between" routine just isn't it for me.

It's like I've made the decision to detach, and it's sad but a bit of a "monkey off my back" emotionally.

I hope your chat goes ok, I'm probably going to "twin" and have a similar one at some stage! [/quote]
Thanks Bunk - appreciate your post and sorry to hear you're in the same slight 'push-pull' with a decent-but-not-quite-enough guy.

I'm not sure how we'll leave things, and think probably it'll be for the best to stop contact completely for a while at least.

Agree re the 'monkey off my back' feeling though - ultimately despite all the good aspects the last 3 months has also taken its toll emotionally for me.

"I'm not sure how we'll leave things, and think probably it'll be for the best to stop contact completely for a while at least."

I think that's also a good point - there's that temptation to "compare" if I'm dating others, and that's not quite a healthy dynamic?

Yes ultimately for me it's down to "does this situation make me feel good or not?" and if it doesn't then it needs to be changed! It's no -one's fault.

I think being in a dating situation where I don't feel "enough" is a personal Achilles heel of mine (I have feelings and early trauma to process, I'm independent but I do need people in my life who are quite encouraging and supportive and available and I don't want my self-esteem to go to shit) and I can't be "cool girl" indefinitely.

[quote SortingItOut]@ibelieveinmirrorballs How terribly grown up of you both.
This is exactly what relationships shoukd be like.
Does he know why he is emotionally unavailable?
Does he not want to address that so in the future he can have a 'normal' relationship?

I think you've learnt so much from meeting him - people come into our lives for a reason, a season or a lifetime💗[/quote]
Good questions @SortingItOut and we did discuss both those things.

I felt as though his emotional unavailability could be something to take to a therapist - he has had therapy before although interestingly only ever in the context of couples counselling and not on his own. Although he didn't say 'I will not do that', he did respond by saying maybe it's not just that he can't have a committed relationship but that he doesn't want one.

His history is that he says he usually chooses emotionally unavailable partners and was aware from the start that I am not like that. I think he has been trying to see if he can be different this time. Before I think with previous partners neither of them would really express how they felt and then eventually the relationship would sort of blow up after a couple of years and he would feel very guilty that he couldn't give them more, having not really realised that's what they wanted. When we first started chatting we decided not to meet for this very reason and he came off the apps after having this minor epiphany that he shouldn't really be on there as he is not looking for a relationship. Then we started chatting again and decided to meet as we'd connected quite strongly, but mainly to see if we even were attracted to each other. Then we met and... well, the attraction was very strong both mentally and physically. So I can't blame him really as I walked into it fully aware of his reservations - but we got carried away with it all I think. It's been an amazing adventure.

One more thing re. his emotional unavailability - I think he has created an elaborate web of arrangements in his life that mean it just doesn't matter for him that he's like that - he's very gregarious, has an amazing social life full of interesting vibrant friends, has a satisfying job which he loves, and lots of active interests. Other than sex, all other needs are met elsewhere. I spoke with my therapist yesterday and we discussed at length his sort of 'alpha over achiever' tendencies - which also extends to being "perfect boyfriend" when we were together, almost to a ridiculous extent - but it's almost too much and must be exhausting for him as he's always performing and on show somehow. I don't think he likes to show vulnerability at all, and by having a very part-time and non-committed partner, they would never have to see him at a low ebb etc.

Anyway - must get on with my work! 9pm tonight is the chat time.

"I think he has created an elaborate web of arrangements in his life that mean it just doesn't matter for him that he's like that - he's very gregarious, has an amazing social life full of interesting vibrant friends, has a satisfying job which he loves, and lots of active interests. Other than sex, all other needs are met elsewhere. I spoke with my therapist yesterday and we discussed at length his sort of 'alpha over achiever' tendencies - which also extends to being "perfect boyfriend" when we were together, almost to a ridiculous extent - but it's almost too much and must be exhausting for him as he's always performing and on show somehow..."

LOL @ibelieveinmirrorballs are you dating my MrHedgehog?

• not mine hahaha

@ReturnOfTheBunk

"I'm not sure how we'll leave things, and think probably it'll be for the best to stop contact completely for a while at least."

I think that's also a good point - there's that temptation to "compare" if I'm dating others, and that's not quite a healthy dynamic?

Yes ultimately for me it's down to "does this situation make me feel good or not?" and if it doesn't then it needs to be changed! It's no -one's fault.

I think being in a dating situation where I don't feel "enough" is a personal Achilles heel of mine (I have feelings and early trauma to process, I'm independent but I do need people in my life who are quite encouraging and supportive and available and I don't want my self-esteem to go to shit) and I can't be "cool girl" indefinitely.

Agree re. the not feeling enough bit. It's like I deliberately go into situations with people who've made it clear they have their OWN SHIT which might prevent them having a committed relationship, then when it doesn't work out it allows me to beat myself up yet again for not being enough.

After our brief chats yesterday and realising that tonight will probably herald the end of it all, I wasn't that emotional about it. Woke up in the night and could already feel the 'intrusive thoughts' starting about not being good enough, and 'maybe he didn't fancy me enough' / 'maybe if I'd been more XYZ he would be different' etc - it's those thoughts that cause me the pain far more than the ending itself. That was a bit of a revelation for me to be honest - I need to work on cutting those thoughts off and I think the pain of the ending will be lessened drastically.

@SortingItOut @Stepcount thank you, this all makes a lot of sense. I do think the age thing is making me panic, but I feel like sometimes it's making me end things earlier than I should as I don't feel they're moving fast enough, label the other person as avoidant and then move on to find the perfect one before it's too late? Whereas no one is perfect and things just do take time to develop?

On the other hand sometimes I do feel I'm giving things too long because of sunk cost fallacy - it's bloody confusing!! :)

@stepcount I like your criteria. I would say that the good outweighs the bad most of the time yes, I think we share roughly the same aim or expectations for the relationship (though would need to double check) and we certainly treat each other as a priority and with respect. We're both generally very consistent and kind. He has been off these past few weeks but it may be the stressful house move.

I do feel I should be able to bring it up and be reassured though - it's not like i'm ever clingy or needy but I need to be able to be vulnerable sometimes don't I? And there are issues on his part with rescuing, I think, and potentially avoidance. But it's so early to tell.

We've agreed to speak next week so i'll see how I feel then...very confused at the mo. We also had a couple of texts last night where i said I hoped he wasn't too feeling guilty about our time away and he said he does feel bad as he should have listened to my need for space and not put us into such an intense position with his family etc.

@ReturnOfTheBunk

"I think he has created an elaborate web of arrangements in his life that mean it just doesn't matter for him that he's like that - he's very gregarious, has an amazing social life full of interesting vibrant friends, has a satisfying job which he loves, and lots of active interests. Other than sex, all other needs are met elsewhere. I spoke with my therapist yesterday and we discussed at length his sort of 'alpha over achiever' tendencies - which also extends to being "perfect boyfriend" when we were together, almost to a ridiculous extent - but it's almost too much and must be exhausting for him as he's always performing and on show somehow..."

LOL @ibelieveinmirrorballs are you dating my MrHedgehog?

• not mine hahaha

Also describes MrWG. My therapist said he was using all these "busy" things to avoid commitment/emotional intimacy and also that he likes to see himself as an "action man" (he is, to be fair). He also did the "look at me, being a bf, bringing flowers and chocolates, cooking you dinner" etc. But then ignored perfectly reasonable texts, or replied in snappy ways. That's the pulling back thing - don't give too much.
I really felt after he came away with me for four nights he was then "rationing" contact as I'd had more than I was supposed to be allocated and he now needed to pull back in case I got the idea we might have a relationship.

But, basically, these people are adults who live in the world and they know how to behave, so this is just dickhead behavior.

I'd also add, to all the wisdom here, that the moment you feel confused is the moment you need to seriously think about things. (If you want a relationship).

It does sound similar, although it was hard to distinguish if it was 'dickhead' behaviour with MrM because he always responded and never ignored, was never snappy, etc. But yes - the point remains - was definitely a similar case of 'need to make sure she doesn't get too over-excited' about this. MrM also an 'action man' unfeasibly fit for his age and able to bound up mountains having hosted gourmet dinner party the night before staying up till 4am, then have copious sex and do it all again. All a bit 'too good to be true', as though it's a performance of sorts. He had too many annoyingly good things going for him, absolutely brilliant at sex, well endowed, and didn't even snore - so annoying!

@BelladiMamma

I'd also add, to all the wisdom here, that the moment you feel confused is the moment you need to seriously think about things. (If you want a relationship).

This is definitely something to consider although I think I've mentioned before that assumes you have appropriate responses to behaviour in relationships. Coming out of toxic/abusive/love bomby previous experiences can make it hard to determine what is appropriate behaviour to cause confusion and what isn't.

Having said that, I do think much of my anxiety this time around was my intuition knowing that things weren't quite right. To be fair to him though, he was clear from the start that a committed relationship was not something he was sure about - although we had discussed it and he has seemed to be moving forward equally and equally up for it all.

@BelladiMamma

This one resonated with me, despite my use of the apps 🤣

Yes!!! 😅

@SortingItOut thanks for that, really useful!

We're not sexually active yet, he wants to wait. I can't work out if he wants to wait for the right reasons, or if it's because he's multi dating and thinks that sleeping with someone whilst dating multiple people is a bit off.
I guess I just need to ask him where he's at.