Why he doesn't want to marry me?

[Spinstermum]

I'm trying to find a proper reasons why it's important for me to get married. He doesn't care about me reaching age of 40 feeling old . He still thinks it doesn't matter for him how old I'm as I'm still gonna look pretty in white dress. We started being friends when I was 27 years old. We have 2 kids together. We bought a house. Then our goal was to get married which never happened. At some point I wanted to go to register office and do it. He didn't want it. He wants to have a proper wedding with a music dance ect. So why it's taking him so long? He wants to propose. I really don't care any more as I've waited for such a long time I only want to be his wife and to feel complete. When I was pregnant I asked him why dont we make plans now. He said it's covid out there. It's gonna be very difficult to organise the wedding. Now he told me he wants to propose but needs to find the right moment. Ok so all those family trip, birthdays, Christmas,new year are not enough to find a perfect moment? I got feeling he is stringing me along . My thoughts are that he doesn't want to get married and all of that its just a lie. If I would know that sooner I'd never start relationship with somebody who doesn't want to get married in the end. I don't even have the same surname as my kids which is awful feeling but he doesn't care in his opinion this is not strong argument to get married. What else I can do/ say?

Why?

You're asking strangers if he could have done x, y or z. He could have done anything. You live with him. You have children with him.

If you can't ask him to show you documents that affect you both then your relationship isn't healthy and isn't sustainable 🤷🏻‍♀️

So it's only 1 document I should ask him . It's to see if he put me as a his beneficiary at work pension? Is there anything else ? But it works both ways. I need to do the same with my pension right?

The issue is if he were to leave you you are unmarried. The only payments he would make to you is child maintenance. Not half the bills and not half nursery fees.

Your house is the only joint asset and he would get the deposit returned before a 50/50 split of remaining equity. Indeed if you were to split he may well be able to buy you out of your share but it doesn't around as though you can buy him out.

In the absence of a Will then your children inherit although you may be able to claim if you are a dependent but this would be by a costly court application in effect disputing your children's right to inherit it all.

The protection is more about what happens if he leaves rather than dies.

I am wondering what culture you and your friends and family are where they think you need to be subservient and not rock the boat and be beholden to this man as you can see from the comments on here that is an unusual viewpoint.

@Spinstermum

So it's only 1 document I should ask him . It's to see if he put me as a his beneficiary at work pension? Is there anything else ? But it works both ways. I need to do the same with my pension right?

People have listed, multiple times on this thread, the documents / safeguards that would be ideal. You keep asking the same question and then when pushed on why you haven't asked to see them, you respond rudely and / or say that you can't ask him as it'll cause an argument.

Wouldn't it be more sensible for you to go back through the thread and note down all the documents people have suggested (repeatedly) you need to see and the safeguards people have (repeatedly) told you are important, instead of asking people to essentially do this work for you?

It's your life.

The only one document is his work pension I can ask. He doesn't have any others to show me. Title of deeds? He doesnt have it. Will? We don't have it yet. If i want any other documents I need to seek it at solicitor mortgage company or bank. Not him.

If i want any other documents I need to seek it at solicitor mortgage company or bank. Not him.

Do that then.

So has he shown you now that you are the beneficiary of his work pension / death in service? Or have you still not asked for proof of this?

OP: it sounds like you're still a bit confused about your rights/what to look for. I have lots of friends with English as their second language and when you get into legalities, different systems to those you grew up with...it can be really confusing.

So I know I'm repeating lots of good advise you've been given, but to summarise:

There are lots of different ways to jointly own a house with someone. You can be tenants in common or joint tenants. Joint tenants mean, if he dies, you automatically own the rest of the house. It isn't treated as part of his will, even if he changed his will tomorrow to one where he left everything to charity you'd still own his house. Tenants in common mean you each own a certain % and can choose to leave that % to whoever you want. Without a will I think that means it would automatically go in trust for your children. So if you do own like this, a will is a critical thing. Given his sizeable deposit and the fact you signed documents to ring fence it, I wonder is it more likely you own as tenants in common. I think that's an important thing to find out.

The second issue is around how you bought the property. To buy a house with a mortgage you need a bank, and a solicitor. The documents you sign with the bank are all just about how you finance the loan. The documents you sign with the solicitor are the ones that deal with ownership, and things like how you own. And you don't always have to both be at the solicitor at the same time to get all the documents signed.So the fact you remember signing lots of documents at the bank doesn't automatically mean you are co-owners.

From what you say, its most likely you do own a share of the property. But there are lots of different ways it could have been done. For example, lets say his deposit was 30%. of the property and the property cost 100 thousand - so he put in 30k. You could have signed documents to ring fence that 30k so whenever the house is sold he gets it back. You could equally have signed documents to say he gets the equivalent of 30%, so if you were to split in 20 years and the house was then worth 300k instead of getting his 30k he would actually get 90k.

These are details you really should know. Other people have suggested the land registry will tell you who owns the property. I think you could also see a solicitor and get them to find out, and explain the implications for you. It may cost a few hundred pounds, and I wouldn't tell your partner right now, but it would be good for you to have clarity.

In terms of all the other documents - yes, you can get him to add you to them. If he's hit by a bus tomorrow it would mean you aren't destitute. But if he has an affair in ten years, he can simply change it all. There's basically nothing he can't change.

So I think what people are advising is to plan as best you can for if the relationship would end. Now, you may choose to stay. You may think that getting to work part time is worth a few more years financial instability. But I would be looking at your own pension, and your own savings, and doing the best you can to maximise those. If you split in 5 years, and all you had was 50% of the equity in your house minus his deposit - would you be able to get a mortgage to buy on your own? Would you be able to support yourself?

Its not necessarily as black and white as 'marriage or you leave'. You need to look at what you can do to improve your financial situation, because aside from the issue of how the ownership of the house is set up, absolutely nothing he does short of marriage will hold any weight in the event of you breaking up. And realistically that is more likely than his death.

@nurserypolitics

OP: it sounds like you're still a bit confused about your rights/what to look for. I have lots of friends with English as their second language and when you get into legalities, different systems to those you grew up with...it can be really confusing.

So I know I'm repeating lots of good advise you've been given, but to summarise:

There are lots of different ways to jointly own a house with someone. You can be tenants in common or joint tenants. Joint tenants mean, if he dies, you automatically own the rest of the house. It isn't treated as part of his will, even if he changed his will tomorrow to one where he left everything to charity you'd still own his house. Tenants in common mean you each own a certain % and can choose to leave that % to whoever you want. Without a will I think that means it would automatically go in trust for your children. So if you do own like this, a will is a critical thing. Given his sizeable deposit and the fact you signed documents to ring fence it, I wonder is it more likely you own as tenants in common. I think that's an important thing to find out.

The second issue is around how you bought the property. To buy a house with a mortgage you need a bank, and a solicitor. The documents you sign with the bank are all just about how you finance the loan. The documents you sign with the solicitor are the ones that deal with ownership, and things like how you own. And you don't always have to both be at the solicitor at the same time to get all the documents signed.So the fact you remember signing lots of documents at the bank doesn't automatically mean you are co-owners.

From what you say, its most likely you do own a share of the property. But there are lots of different ways it could have been done. For example, lets say his deposit was 30%. of the property and the property cost 100 thousand - so he put in 30k. You could have signed documents to ring fence that 30k so whenever the house is sold he gets it back. You could equally have signed documents to say he gets the equivalent of 30%, so if you were to split in 20 years and the house was then worth 300k instead of getting his 30k he would actually get 90k.

These are details you really should know. Other people have suggested the land registry will tell you who owns the property. I think you could also see a solicitor and get them to find out, and explain the implications for you. It may cost a few hundred pounds, and I wouldn't tell your partner right now, but it would be good for you to have clarity.

In terms of all the other documents - yes, you can get him to add you to them. If he's hit by a bus tomorrow it would mean you aren't destitute. But if he has an affair in ten years, he can simply change it all. There's basically nothing he can't change.

So I think what people are advising is to plan as best you can for if the relationship would end. Now, you may choose to stay. You may think that getting to work part time is worth a few more years financial instability. But I would be looking at your own pension, and your own savings, and doing the best you can to maximise those. If you split in 5 years, and all you had was 50% of the equity in your house minus his deposit - would you be able to get a mortgage to buy on your own? Would you be able to support yourself?

Its not necessarily as black and white as 'marriage or you leave'. You need to look at what you can do to improve your financial situation, because aside from the issue of how the ownership of the house is set up, absolutely nothing he does short of marriage will hold any weight in the event of you breaking up. And realistically that is more likely than his death.

Thank you so much for this post. The truth is I never looked properly into buying a house and all the procedures. I kind of know what I need to know. It's definately not the language issue. Im definately "joint tenants" as it states everywhere on the documents. I did sign LOTS of documents at the solicitor not as much at the bank. Solicitor showed me big bunch of papers to read and sign with lots of pages. It was all about agreement between two of us that we own the property equally terms and conditions. There was nothing about him getting more than me in terms of finance or property . It was definately that his xxx thousand goes back to him. Not percentage %of the property. Then it says the rest of the value of property will go equally split between us. I'm thinking why it says that after one of us dies it won't go automatically into the other party me or him the survivor as we are 50 /50owners also joint tenants. Will it make a difference if we were married?

Have you looked up your house on this site? You can do that today.

Land Registry

I can't it doesn't show me anything as I live in scotland.

And you are incapable of Googling ‘land register Scotland’? You require that someone spoon feed it to you?

This thread is ridiculous. I'm out.

Land Register for Scotland Costs £3 to get a copy of your Land Certificate which is what you’ll need in Scotland.

There are different rules for intestacy in Scotland than England so some of the advice you’ve received may be incorrect as the two countries have different legal systems (that would have been good to know on P1!!). If you’re married you have different rights than you would do in England.

BUT none of this is really relevant as it’s highly unlikely he’s going to marry you and you’re highly unlikely to ask what sort of provision he’s out in place to protect you and the children. Yes it’s possible to be partners and almost as legally protected as you would automatically be if you got married, but that’s not the point. He’s not prepared to commit to you beyond buying a house with you which you can do with anyone. I could go out tomorrow and buy a house with someone doesn’t mean I’m committed to them and I think that’s what you want.

You don’t have to wait for him or do things how he wants to. Do your own thing and stand up for what you want.

I ordered some info from land registry. They will send it to me on an email. Thanks. We had a chat about us. He said if I won't pressure him about proposal then he will do it. We are going on holiday soon so I'm giving him a chance to propose. Hope he will do it. We've talked we want small wedding and we don't want to wait long. So soon as I'm engaged I'm going to take everything in my own hands and plan thighs. It's has been too long.

Do come back and let us know how your holiday went.

I know you are against it. But my son saying even this morning that he loves his family he loves mummy he loves his daddy and his sister. They always cuddle us. I don't imagine it how people are breaking up families . How they can do it without breaking little kids heart

And most of us can’t imagine how a grown woman can get in the situation you’ve got yourself into and continue behaving the way that you’re behaving. You wouldn’t need to ‘break a little kids heart’ if you’d just not been utterly ridiculous in the first place.

Since we’re talking about things that we can’t imagine.

But, yes. Stay with this man who doesn’t want to marry you, with whom you apparently can’t have a straightforward conversation…because your son cuddles both of you.

I got myself into this not by choice but it was long terms relationship started by friendship. There was no rush of getting married that time as we were together for so long happy so I knew marriage is going to happen. So we were getting on with our life house kids ect. Now it bothers me that we are not married a lot. I'm ready to take us to the next level I need more of this relationship need to feel secure

You made choices every single step of the way. Every. Single. Step. And you’re continuing to make those ridiculous choices now.

Have you sat down and actually read this thread? Not skimmed it like a child, but actually read and taken in what’s been said to you. Are you even capable of doing that?

Anyway, it’s your life you’re fucking up. So, hand me the popcorn.

So in your opinion I should leave him take our kids and live somewhere else as we both have a different priorities in life and he doesn't respect me and doesn't love me and doesn't care to protect me financially or kids or to marry?

In my opinion, you should actually read the thread where multiple people have laid out your logical options multiple times.

I know what everybody are saying that I should protect myself and kids for the future financial. So this is what I'm doing. So I'm going to be secure. There will be no problem in that matter. Then what's the next step (in your opinion)?

No, that is not what everyone is saying. People have been VERY specific about what you need to do. I am not repeating what’s been told to you 20 times because you’re unwilling the scroll up.

Why are you so reluctant to actually read the thread and take in what people have said?

The problem is that this man tells you that in order to get what you want (marriage and financial stability) you have to back off and not ask for it .

The men who say this generally do so in order to buy themselves time and keep you sweet. You’ll be on your best behaviour now waiting for this proposal, and when it doesn’t come and you’re disappointed and frustrated, you’ll finally crack and ask him what’s taking so long and he can blame you because you dared to bring it up again, so the timeline gets reset until you can not mention it again.

Take back the power over your own life. Tell him you’re not interested in waiting for a proposal, you’re an adult and want to have a say in how your own life pans out. Either he does or does not want to marry you, with the commitment and security that entails, but he doesn’t get to keep you hanging on, waiting for him to bestow this great honour on you. You already have children, so pulling the “it’s tradition” card doesn’t work here. If he wants to make a big romantic gesture tell him to save it for the wedding day, when he can get down on one knee, arrange a mariachi band or do a song and dance routine. He doesn’t need to plan a “surprise” proposal because he already knows the answer - yours is yes. What’s his?