H ignored choking son

[whatdidIimarry]

I was halfway out of the front door carrying something large and bulky when I heard our 8 year old cry out, clearly frightened and distressed, ' HE''S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' And I could hear our five year old making a choking sound. I wasn't too alarmed as they were in the (quite small) back room with H who is his work's first aider so I knew he could handle it, giving me two seconds to put what I was carrying down. But as I did this I heard my son again, clearly frightened out of his wits, 'HELP! HELP! HE'S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' , I could still hear the younger one making choking noises and I couldn't hear H as all so I ran to the room they were in. And there I saw five year old on all fours, face down and with a piece of regurgitated orange in front of him, and our 8 year sitting rigid and upright with eyes the size of saucers looking utterly distressed and terrified.

And there is H literally sitting at his desk, just one metre away from the five year old, with his back to the kids, doing some work on his laptop.

I comfort the kids and then say to H, who has still not turned around at all, and clearly has not at any point, and say, ' did you not hear eldest? Did you not hear how frightened he was?' 'I just thought they were messing around' said H. So I repeat, ' Answer me honestly, could you genuinely not hear in his voice how terrified he was?' ' No', said H, I thought they were messing around'.

Any, any fool would have heard that this was a child who was genuinely alarmed and frightened. How good an actor does he think our 8 year old is? And how good an actor does he think our five year old is, that he can mimic choking like that? And why wouldn't you even turn to look to check?

That's not normal is it? I have long realised that H has serious issues with a very limited ability to empathise with others, but this has shocked me, and I didn't realise there was much left about him that could shock me. Why on earth wouldn't a normal protective parenting instinct have kicked in?!

Even if a parent thought their child was messaging around any words like that would have any caring person checking anyway !! Bloody hell. I think I'd instantly stop loving my dh in this case and would leave him. Your poor eight year old.

@Bortles

I can imagine my reaction. I would have picked up his computer and thrown it out of the door.

I'm sure that would have calmed my frightened son right down.

It doesn't matter if he's on the spectrum/deaf. What today has proved is that he's not safe to be left with your DC.

You could be dealing with the Police and an undertaker rather than posting this here........... and if that's not enough to spur you into action rather than apathy, then nothing is. Your excuses for him are just as frightening as his behaviour.

@SpanielsAreMyLife

It doesn't matter if he's on the spectrum/deaf. What today has proved is that he's not safe to be left with your DC.

You could be dealing with the Police and an undertaker rather than posting this here........... and if that's not enough to spur you into action rather than apathy, then nothing is. Your excuses for him are just as frightening as his behaviour.

I agree with this. OP will you ever really feel it's safe to leave your DC with him again?

As IVBumble wrote instead of focusing on 'why' - focus on what this made you feel like and what your next steps will be.

Remember you are not responsible for how he does/doesn't feel.

'Your excuses for him are just as frightening as his behaviour'

No. They really aren't. And they're not excuses. Trying to understand the parameters of what just occurred is the first step to making sense of it. And making sense of it is the only way to decide what to do next. Making sense of it, understanding it, is NOT excusing it.

Neurodiverse does not equal ‘unsafe around kids’

Of course this doesn’t systematically run true. A minority of people don’t have the capability to look after children for a variety of reasons. My fil is neurodiverse. I would never have left him for a minute to look after my dd. He just isn’t capable. I suspect he never was with dh either. Fil lived with his mother then married and his wife moved in so he would never have needed to learn to look after any kids. Idk how he would have reacted to this. Possibly he wouldn’t have. Lives in his own world and doesn’t express emotions. He does feel them though and was sadly institutionalised for a short while when younger when he was forced to go to war (foreign) and still takes antidepressants.

I understand you feel very confused op. It must be difficult to live with someone, who you cannot trust to react in a way you would imagine. My dh has traits. But nothing like my fil. I am so glad your ds is safe and I don’t agree with the split up because. But he does need some answers and you need some ground rules.

if this event weren't so serious, it would be almost laughable that he is his work's first aider. Imagine someone calling for his help and him not even looking up! What a complete waste of space he is.

I think its the fact that he still didnt react afterwards and kept syaing i though they were messing about and didnt look bothered

I am glad your younger child is OK; that is scary.

While one cannot diagnose over the Internet, I think it's unlikely that your husband a psychopath. He sounds more unaware and confused than callous. From what you say, my best guess would be that he has some form of ASD (and no, I don't mean that all people with ASD would be incompetent parents in emergencies).

Regardless of the cause, he proved to be less competent than an 8-year-old in recognizing and responding to an emergency.

It is possible that he might benefit from some form of parenting class of the sort that is offered to parents with learning disabilities, even though he doesn't have a learning disability in the usual sense. But very likely he would refuse this.

If you end up splitting up, you will unfortunately have to ensure that he is not given sole charge of the children even for limited periods of time.

How distressing for you and your DC. Sorry I haven't read the whole thread but does he have significant processing issues? My DH has severe dyslexia and I strongly suspect he is on the autistic spectrum but has not been assessed. He is a very kind loving person but frequently does not hear or react to what is going on around him. We've not had an incident like the one you describe though! That is extreme. So sorry this has happened to you. xxx

He doesn't understand when he is upsetting people or making them angry.

It sounds like he relatively often does this, for you to have noticed his lack of care when he does so. I don't think most adults regularly upset or anger others.

He either can't or won't safeguard his children to an acceptable level.

I agree that rather than focusing on why that is so, you need to focus on what you do next.

If my partner had for some reason not realised how serious the situation was (as others have said I can't quite see how this would happen but for arguments sake) then been told how serious it was, he would be beside himself at having potentially not saved the life of a child in danger. He would be really, really, really upset at the thought of how scared both kids must have been and feel incredibly guilty he didn't react when hearing all the noise.

Your partner didn't just ignore it, he didn't give a shit that he got it so terribly wrong.

Bullshit. Even if you thought they were just messing around you'd look up. 5 year old making choking sounds? Anyone who's been around kids or a choking person knows what that gagging and retching sounds like so for the fact that the orange actually came up I refuse to believe that he thought they were just playing.

and to not even look up to check/make sure?! Do you leave the kids alone with him OP? Because if you do I would be really worried if I was you. Also concerning that you say it's part of a wider pattern of behaviour..

@SpanielsAreMyLife

It doesn't matter if he's on the spectrum/deaf. What today has proved is that he's not safe to be left with your DC.

You could be dealing with the Police and an undertaker rather than posting this here........... and if that's not enough to spur you into action rather than apathy, then nothing is. Your excuses for him are just as frightening as his behaviour.

You know what, I know that this simplistic armchair condemnatory announcement makes you feel good about yourself, lording it over someone else has that effect for some people - my husband gets this kick too - but really, you know and I know that there is nothing I can do to stop H from having contact with his own children. Whether I stay or go he will continue to have contact with his children, and if I try to stop it, the courts will order it. I can't 'keep them safe' in the way you demand. You know it, I know it, but I have to live with that and you don't and you clearly lack the emotional intelligence to even begin to imagine what that feels like.

Attacking me may make you feel better but it cannot change that reality.

And on that, I am off. I've written to the assessment team.

Hope you continue to feel good about yourself Spaniels. My H does too and he has about as much reason to as you do.

100% agree with @PermanentTemporary. My ex is literally dead inside. I spent years trying to understand, help, research to no avail. He doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with him, he will not take responsibility for anything and is completely detached from the world. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s his upbringing. He is irreparably damaged from it and can’t even see it.

OP - I hope you’re okay and your sons too. You need to focus on your boys and yourself. I would never be able to forgive him for it, never. No diagnosis of anything would make a blind bit of difference to me, my children come first.

I wish you well OP xx

That is scary for you and difficult to process

I see he’s in the middle of an assessment, or started one

It’s difficult to forgive if not this

If it is then you could make changes - I can see you might not want 50/50 or for them to be less safe

I’m sorry OP, this sounds terrifying. Well done for writing to the assessment team.

Do you think if a third party (eg psychologist/nurse) told him how dangerous this incident was he would believe them and start making changes? Do any of his friends/family comment on his behaviours? Hope things workout.

but really, you know and I know that there is nothing I can do to stop H from having contact with his own children. Whether I stay or go he will continue to have contact with his children, and if I try to stop it, the courts will order it

You are right, courts will order it but, at this level of “caring” what the courts orders is irrelevant as he is likely to lose interest in having contact with his children within a year or two, unless you poke his competitive side.

@Roundeartheratchriatmas

Quite frankly if someone’s behaviour puts their children in danger anything relating to understanding his behaviour can take a back seat over safeguarding the children

This. You can try to help him as much as you like but as long as he doesn't recognise he has a problem he won't address it.

Quite frankly the whole episode sent a chill down my spine. The not noticing his child choking is one thing, his reaction to is is on another level.

@FMSucks

100% agree with *@PermanentTemporary*. My ex is literally dead inside. I spent years trying to understand, help, research to no avail. He doesn’t think there’s anything wrong with him, he will not take responsibility for anything and is completely detached from the world. I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s his upbringing. He is irreparably damaged from it and can’t even see it.

OP - I hope you’re okay and your sons too. You need to focus on your boys and yourself. I would never be able to forgive him for it, never. No diagnosis of anything would make a blind bit of difference to me, my children come first.

I wish you well OP xx

But you must recognise that autism is not a synonym for (in your words) ‘dead inside’. That’s a horrible and damaging prejudice.

@FantasticCrete

In this case there is clearly something very wrong with OP's DH. It might be his form of autism, or it might be something else. But those whose autism doesn't affect their ability to recognise distress need to recognise that they don't speak for all neurodiverse people.

I agree with this.

And those who don't know what they're talking about need to recognise that they speak for no neurodiverse people at all!

I hope this thread has been some use, as you will experience the range of reactions you will get if you tell people about it.

If you do come back to read this - i still think you need to take time to decide what to do. I think you face a stark choice that your children aren't safe with him but that there is a high chance that a family court won't recognise that. I think there are good parents all over the world right now in the same situation who are doing all the parenting to keep their kids safe.

Sorry to give such a bleak view.

@whatdidIimarry

I was halfway out of the front door carrying something large and bulky when I heard our 8 year old cry out, clearly frightened and distressed, ' HE''S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' And I could hear our five year old making a choking sound. I wasn't too alarmed as they were in the (quite small) back room with H who is his work's first aider so I knew he could handle it, giving me two seconds to put what I was carrying down. But as I did this I heard my son again, clearly frightened out of his wits, 'HELP! HELP! HE'S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' , I could still hear the younger one making choking noises and I couldn't hear H as all so I ran to the room they were in. And there I saw five year old on all fours, face down and with a piece of regurgitated orange in front of him, and our 8 year sitting rigid and upright with eyes the size of saucers looking utterly distressed and terrified. And there is H literally sitting at his desk, just one metre away from the five year old, with his back to the kids, doing some work on his laptop.

I comfort the kids and then say to H, who has still not turned around at all, and clearly has not at any point, and say, ' did you not hear eldest? Did you not hear how frightened he was?' 'I just thought they were messing around' said H. So I repeat, ' Answer me honestly, could you genuinely not hear in his voice how terrified he was?' ' No', said H, I thought they were messing around'.

Any, any fool would have heard that this was a child who was genuinely alarmed and frightened. How good an actor does he think our 8 year old is? And how good an actor does he think our five year old is, that he can mimic choking like that? And why wouldn't you even turn to look to check?

That's not normal is it? I have long realised that H has serious issues with a very limited ability to empathise with others, but this has shocked me, and I didn't realise there was much left about him that could shock me. Why on earth wouldn't a normal protective parenting instinct have kicked in?!

Is your husband on the spectrum?

@Hope54321 what disgusting prejudice.

OP - @whatdidIimarry - would it help if you agreed a specific set of words that your husband had to respond to even if he didn't think it sounds serious? For example, if your children yelled, 'Dad, Emergency!'

The children would have to know that they only ever use the words you choose when they really need to, and your DH has to intellectually understand that responding to those words is non-negotiable, no matter what he thinks.

FWIW, I'm so sorry. This sounds incredibly scary and difficult to understand.