H ignored choking son

[whatdidIimarry]

I was halfway out of the front door carrying something large and bulky when I heard our 8 year old cry out, clearly frightened and distressed, ' HE''S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' And I could hear our five year old making a choking sound. I wasn't too alarmed as they were in the (quite small) back room with H who is his work's first aider so I knew he could handle it, giving me two seconds to put what I was carrying down. But as I did this I heard my son again, clearly frightened out of his wits, 'HELP! HELP! HE'S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' , I could still hear the younger one making choking noises and I couldn't hear H as all so I ran to the room they were in. And there I saw five year old on all fours, face down and with a piece of regurgitated orange in front of him, and our 8 year sitting rigid and upright with eyes the size of saucers looking utterly distressed and terrified.

And there is H literally sitting at his desk, just one metre away from the five year old, with his back to the kids, doing some work on his laptop.

I comfort the kids and then say to H, who has still not turned around at all, and clearly has not at any point, and say, ' did you not hear eldest? Did you not hear how frightened he was?' 'I just thought they were messing around' said H. So I repeat, ' Answer me honestly, could you genuinely not hear in his voice how terrified he was?' ' No', said H, I thought they were messing around'.

Any, any fool would have heard that this was a child who was genuinely alarmed and frightened. How good an actor does he think our 8 year old is? And how good an actor does he think our five year old is, that he can mimic choking like that? And why wouldn't you even turn to look to check?

That's not normal is it? I have long realised that H has serious issues with a very limited ability to empathise with others, but this has shocked me, and I didn't realise there was much left about him that could shock me. Why on earth wouldn't a normal protective parenting instinct have kicked in?!

[quote thedancingbear]@Hope54321 what disgusting prejudice.[/quote]
I didn’t mean that in an offensive way at all. Sorry if it comes across that way.

I see some posters are heavily suggesting your DH is autistic as he didn't display a natural parental level of concern when you told him how serious the incident was.

I just want to repeat as I often do that lack of empathy is not a clear cut autistic trait. It is present in some autistic people. Having empathy but being unable to display it appropriately can happen and in the case of my autistic son can actually be in overdrive. My son would have reacted to the incident and then had a week of panic that his brother would choke on everything.

I don't know why your DH ignored his children in such distress. I suspect he's used to you being default carer and is in dbs mindset of it not my problem so the children just don't register.

Scary to think your DH will not react in an emergency. Be aware of this at all times.

Wow. That sounds absolutely terrifying OP. I wouldn't feel safe leaving him in sole charge.

To the other posters who were making generalised comments about autism... my 17 year old daughter is ASD. I am disabled (very recently so a lot to get used to) and she listens out for every noise I make in case I need help. She makes sure I have food prepared if she is going out to work or college.

Autism doesn't automatically mean switching off from the rest of your family.

@frogsbreath

I see some posters are heavily suggesting your DH is autistic as he didn't display a natural parental level of concern when you told him how serious the incident was.

I just want to repeat as I often do that lack of empathy is not a clear cut autistic trait. It is present in some autistic people. Having empathy but being unable to display it appropriately can happen and in the case of my autistic son can actually be in overdrive. My son would have reacted to the incident and then had a week of panic that his brother would choke on everything.

I don't know why your DH ignored his children in such distress. I suspect he's used to you being default carer and is in dbs mindset of it not my problem so the children just don't register.

Scary to think your DH will not react in an emergency. Be aware of this at all times.

Thank you for such a clear and articulate post.

It’s also worth remembering that lack of empathy is also present in very many people who do not have ASD (it’s implicit in your post, but in the context of the OP I thought it was worth pulling out)

My son is autistic, once I cut my finger accidently in the kitchen and he was upstairs in his study, I did let out a small scream. My son came running downstairs. He usually has his headphones on, and ignores other loud noises at home. But when I screamed, he came running without a moments hesitation. He also suffers from social anxiety and has other issues as well. So its not like he cannot differentiate between an emergency or not. I simply cannot believe your H's reaction of doing nothing. For me this would be the end. I could never look at him let alone have sex with someone who cant even look after his own kids. Your kids are not sae with him. He should never have them unsupervised.

Id also not want him as a first aider at work. He seems to be unempathetic and uncaring

Quite frankly, I don't think he should be left alone with small children. Seriously. If that's how he reacts like to a situation like that, I can just imagine how he'd be like if he took your kids to a pool or beach. Your kids would be swept out to sea before that idiot responded like any decent, normal human being would.

I'm sure that would have calmed my frightened son right down

I'm not sure if @Bortles would have actually done that, but I sympathise.

No I doubt that it would have calmed your son down. I've never trashed someone else's stuff, and it's not a good example for children to see things being thrown around and for their parents to be loosing their shit. However, a reaction like that would have clearly sent the message 'this is an emergency situation and one of the parents will not tolerate a child in danger being ignored'.

I can't help wondering how he would react if he was in the house, the OP was out and the children were in their bedrooms and there was a fire. What would he do? Leave the house and call the fire brigade? Get the children out of the house and call the fire brigade? How would he react I wonder?
It is certainly incredibly alarming and chilling that he didn't even turn round when there was a life-threatening situation with his own children in the same room as he was!

@IVbumble

Trying to understand why someone behaves a way is not excusing them. I struggle to understand why you would think that.

Sometimes trying to understand why someone [or even ourselves] behaves in a particular way is an avoidance tactic to prevent us feeling the painful emotions attached to the result of that behaviour.

There is no need to understand why. Why is often irrelevant - knowing why someone did something doesn't excuse poor behaviour.

Instead of focusing on 'why' - focus on what this made you feel and what your next steps will be.

Remember you are not responsible for how he does/doesn't feel.

On the other side understanding WHY can help put strategies in place, including if the OP was deciding to split etc….

You can’t put adequate strategies in place unless you know what you are dealing with.
I’d say it’s even more important to know if the OP was deciding to leave because those children would still spend time with their dad.

I'm not sure how he managed to become the first aider at work if he ignores cries of 'he's choking!!' from his own children

It really does sound like psychopathy or sociopathy from what you’re saying...

Not all psychopaths are criminals/murderers etc - Google “non criminal psychopathy”. There is a checklist by professor Robert Hare- the Hare Psychopathy Checklist- that you can use as an at-home “diagnostic” tool (doesn’t, of course, mean anything without proper assessment, but might give you an idea....)

Good luck, OP. And hope your children are okay.

Just on the hearing/not hearing point. My DH can be aware of noise, but still be zoned out. So he’ll say ‘I thought you were talking to xx’. So the zoned out thing isn’t impossible. Perhaps he was aware of noise but not the specifics.

It’s really worrying it didn’t break through the zoning out though.

@SheWoreYellow

Just on the hearing/not hearing point. My DH can be aware of noise, but still be zoned out. So he’ll say ‘I thought you were talking to xx’. So the zoned out thing isn’t impossible. Perhaps he was aware of noise but not the specifics.

It’s really worrying it didn’t break through the zoning out though.

And importantly, wasn't upset afterwards when he was told what had happened.

I can't help wondering how the two boys are reacting to the father's not only lack of action, but his total lack of even a flicker of interest in what was a terrifying event for them. Children need to feel they are safe if a parent is with them. They can't feel safe with him any more can they? They're not.

I would think he behaves quite differently at work and comes across to his work colleagues as quite plausible. It is behind closed doors that his self absorbed nature truly emerges at great cost to his family.

I’d find it hard to forgive this and not resent him

But at the same time you’d not want to leave him with them alone due to splitting

@whatdidIimarry I am not sure if anyone has posted this already, I haven't read full thread, but I was watching a tedx talk done by a psychopath who is also a doctor, who only discovered he was a psychopath by accident while doing research on brain scans - he had had a brain scan for something else and he noticed he had signs of psychopathy from the scan and he then started to put two and two together. After realising he has worked hard to try to build up empathy etc.

So there is a scan which can indicate psycopathy, it is probable more common amongst law abiding professionals than we realise - the more competitive and cut throat ones, who operate within the law.

Double check your 5 year old doesn't have anything caught in his throat - it might not be immediately obvious, but if they start to cough when drinking or getting infections a lot there might be something tiny there. That happened to us, horrendous, but I realised in time.

I hope that you find answers and I hope your dc are okay, the whole choking thing is terrifying.

@MarshaBradyo

I’d find it hard to forgive this and not resent him

But at the same time you’d not want to leave him with them alone due to splitting

Is there nothing the OP can do legally to prevent him having shared custody given what has happened? What more evidence could there be that the children are not safe with him? There were in the same room, one could have died and he didn't respond in any way to the sibling's terrified screams for help!

sounds like he wanted his 5 year old too die...

who doesnt panic in case theyre kid dies from choking?? does he know how many people die from choking every year. mostly children? sounds likr he couldnt give any less of a fuck

“I suspect he's used to you being default carer and is in dbs mindset of it not my problem so the children just don't register.”

Agree this is likely the crux of it. A belief system that the children are your responsibility rather than his.

If this does go to family court for access and there is a question around capability then his parenting could be assessed by social workers over several months.

If you want to keep the family together he should reach out for parenting support/classes. You can self refer to ‘early help hub’ or similar.

I think one of you should get this situation onto social services radar, it might be helpful down the line if there is a residency conflict.

This is terrifying. You just cannot regard him as a competent adult, in terms of childcare. You are henceforth a single parent in those terms.

It doesn't matter why your DH is like this, unless it interests him to find out.

hmm saying that... i do remember a story once of a man watching his 9 year old drown in the pool, kid was saved by a neighbour who saw and apparently the dad was just sat like a zombie but hadnt taken any drugs or alcohol tests proved. dad said he thought he was fine and just messing as he can swim...

kid got brain damage from lack of oxygen and the dad went to prison for endangering or something

STBXH put DD to bed in pain with a sprained ankle before however he did later make every excuse under the sun rather than deny the situation he also used to ignore headlice and anything else which would require actual parenting, he recently ignored DS's badly scraped arm while I was at work. yes he's a psycho. sympathy OP

I would look into getting some legal advice OP. Definitely take your DC to hospital and make a report on exactly what happened. Get social services involved.