H ignored choking son

[whatdidIimarry]

I was halfway out of the front door carrying something large and bulky when I heard our 8 year old cry out, clearly frightened and distressed, ' HE''S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' And I could hear our five year old making a choking sound. I wasn't too alarmed as they were in the (quite small) back room with H who is his work's first aider so I knew he could handle it, giving me two seconds to put what I was carrying down. But as I did this I heard my son again, clearly frightened out of his wits, 'HELP! HELP! HE'S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' , I could still hear the younger one making choking noises and I couldn't hear H as all so I ran to the room they were in. And there I saw five year old on all fours, face down and with a piece of regurgitated orange in front of him, and our 8 year sitting rigid and upright with eyes the size of saucers looking utterly distressed and terrified.

And there is H literally sitting at his desk, just one metre away from the five year old, with his back to the kids, doing some work on his laptop.

I comfort the kids and then say to H, who has still not turned around at all, and clearly has not at any point, and say, ' did you not hear eldest? Did you not hear how frightened he was?' 'I just thought they were messing around' said H. So I repeat, ' Answer me honestly, could you genuinely not hear in his voice how terrified he was?' ' No', said H, I thought they were messing around'.

Any, any fool would have heard that this was a child who was genuinely alarmed and frightened. How good an actor does he think our 8 year old is? And how good an actor does he think our five year old is, that he can mimic choking like that? And why wouldn't you even turn to look to check?

That's not normal is it? I have long realised that H has serious issues with a very limited ability to empathise with others, but this has shocked me, and I didn't realise there was much left about him that could shock me. Why on earth wouldn't a normal protective parenting instinct have kicked in?!

'Problem' 'Abnormal' 'Psychopath' to describe a neurodiverse person? That's Mumsnet for you.

Sounds very bizarre behaviour and I don’t think I would I ever trust him with the kids. Although your child was probably gagging not choking - with choking there is no noise as the airway is blocked. Just as scary though and I hope he’s ok now.

Obviously it’s not right, not normal, and would have been frightening for both children

Today : focus on reassuring them, & bear in mind the kids are not fully safe with their dad as he doesn’t seem to react to danger

You must be both angry and upset. Take your time to think about where to go from here (I’m not saying ltb, that’s a whole new set of problems ), but realise you cannot rely on your H to keep kids safe

It’s chilling to read but even more chilling that all you’re doing is excusing him

Trying to understand why someone behaves a way is not excusing them. I struggle to understand why you would think that.

@thedancingbear no. For one of them the underlying reasons for them not always being great with their kids is their autism. It’s how it manifests for them. So surely it would be ableist to suggest they are just a “shit parent” rather than acknowledging that those aspects of parenting are difficult for them because of their autism? But equally it doesn’t mean that all autistic parents will behave like that.

@CheshireKitten123

Is he slightly deaf, OP?

Or is he one f those people who concentrates so hard on something they tune everything else out?

Slightly deaf? FFS, I've seen it all now.

FWIW, I'm autistic AND have a significant hearing loss and there is NO WAY I wouldn't react to a distressed child.

Some of the comments on here are so offensive. Ableist and ignorant.

Autism doesn't = psychopath.

Slightly deaf (WTF!!) doesn't mean you ignore someone in distress.

He did hear my son, he said he did but thought they were messing about.

I'm going to write to the team he is awaiting assessment with.

@Theunamedcat

Can we stop with the casual abalism on here this is yet another thread where people claim something neurodiverse people fwiw both my younger children are on the umbrella pathway there have been a couple of choking incidents over the years BOTH of them reacted appropriately and swiftly

Then you know that neurodiverse people are not all the same. I'm glad that yours can respond appropriately in such a situation, but not all can. I have worked with autistic people for my entire career (and have someone with autism in my immediate family), and they ran the gamut of entirely reliable and a safe pair of hands, to absolutely oblivious to danger.

In this case there is clearly something very wrong with OP's DH. It might be his form of autism, or it might be something else. But those whose autism doesn't affect their ability to recognise distress need to recognise that they don't speak for all neurodiverse people.

@Theunamedcat

Can we stop with the casual abalism on here this is yet another thread where people claim something neurodiverse people fwiw both my younger children are on the umbrella pathway there have been a couple of choking incidents over the years BOTH of them reacted appropriately and swiftly

This, my whole family is diagnosed with varying degrees of Autism/ADHD, and sure, might struggle with day to day emotion/understanding others feelings.. but watching our kids choke? No, we wouldn't be ignoring that as 'playing' for a second, we'd be out of whatever we're doing and there like a shot.

The way the OP's husband reacted is fuck all to do with any possible neurodiversity where ASD/ADHD is concerned.

My Mum 'feels emotions very strongly' especially when people are watching.

She also put us in purposefully dangerous situations as children and ignored our physical distress.

I have cut her out of my life because she is (imo) a narcissist with psychopathic tendencies.

She looks to all the world like a church-going, child loving, friendly little old lady.

He may not get or even want 50/50. If you report this to the team and detail the rest of the issues you can highlight why you’d be concerned for him being in some charge of the children.

I’m not sure but you may even be able to request an assessment at that stage ? If I were you I’d take legal advice ASAP.

@mildtomoderate

'Problem' 'Abnormal' 'Psychopath' to describe a neurodiverse person? That's Mumsnet for you.

'Problem' 'Abnormal' 'Psychopath' to describe a MAN WHO HEARD HIS SON CHOKING AND DIDNT REACT.

What @saraclara said, basically

Also, my Dad was in the category of caring but incapable. They were very different. I would say my Mum got a kick out of watching us distressed and hurt and feeling powerful.

My Dad panicked and shouted then felt deep guilt afterwards.

You husband sounds chilling.

I'm neurodiverse (ADHD), and it's not casual ableism to be shocked that OPs partner didn't respond to his eldest sons cries of 'he's choking'. He doesn't sound ND, he sounds useless and self absorbed.

[quote Newnews]@thedancingbear no. For one of them the underlying reasons for them not always being great with their kids is their autism. It’s how it manifests for them. So surely it would be ableist to suggest they are just a “shit parent” rather than acknowledging that those aspects of parenting are difficult for them because of their autism? But equally it doesn’t mean that all autistic parents will behave like that.[/quote]
But you’re making my point for me. There’s no attempt to achieve any real kind of understanding on this thread, and no-one can diagnose the OP’s husband. The thrust is, simultaneously:

(I) he’s a cunt who is not safe around kids
(Ii) my best guess is he’s autistic or something
(Iii) LTB

That’s nothing to do with understanding his behaviour, and everything to do with bigotry against neurodiverse people

Quite frankly if someone’s behaviour puts their children in danger anything relating to understanding his behaviour can take a back seat over safeguarding the children

This man isn't diagnosed with anything and may not be.

I don't think my dad had any kind of neurodiversity. He grew up in an environment where it was actively dangerous to express any needs, bar one or two - hunger was ok, he was never underfed. He learned from a young age to ignore his own needs, and that I think meant he became either unable to notice other people's, or thought it was better for them to ignore them. I think a surprising number of people have upbringings like this.

In this case there is clearly something very wrong with OP's DH. It might be his form of autism, or it might be something else. But those whose autism doesn't affect their ability to recognise distress need to recognise that they don't speak for all neurodiverse people.

I agree with this.

"Its just that, I don't know what to do now. If we split he would absolutely go for 50/50 custody, and I can't see that being good for the kids. As well as incidents like this one, he is completely and utterly unable to deal with their emotions or behaviour."

What are you getting out of this relationship now?. What needs of yours does he meet still?.

Why do you think he would go for 50/50 at all?. Well perhaps he would but only to "punish" you and otherwise spite you and in turn your children. Its not good for them to be in his orbit 100% of the time as they are now; better to be with you as the more dependable parent for some of the time and you can provide a far better influence to them than a toxic one.

I would think he is self absorbed in his own little world with him at the centre of his own little universe. You people are but bit part players to him. His lack of help, empathy and overall care is chilling.

What are your parents like OP, are they self absorbed too?.

My exh was perfectly capable of doing something like that, he wouldn’t even notice a crying baby if baby was sitting on his lap.

I am totally convinced he was not faking not hearing or seeing distress in other people, he really couldn’t notice it unless someone pointed it to him. That’s why he is an ex.

If this sounds familiar, consider a way out as no amount of reasoning will change him. I didn’t realise my ex had psychopathic traits until years after we left him, for years I thought he had Aspergers but they are totally different things. One can feel compassion even if unable to read the body language, the other can’t.

I can imagine my reaction. I would have picked up his computer and thrown it out of the door.

@FantasticCrete

In this case there is clearly something very wrong with OP's DH. It might be his form of autism, or it might be something else. But those whose autism doesn't affect their ability to recognise distress need to recognise that they don't speak for all neurodiverse people.

I agree with this.

Bollocks. Not reacting to someone shouting ‘your child is choking’ is nothing to do with an ‘inability to recognise distress’ caused by autism. The OP’s husband is a functioning adult who apparently manages to understand simple sentences in other contexts

Please project your prejudices somewhere else

Trying to understand why someone behaves a way is not excusing them. I struggle to understand why you would think that.

Sometimes trying to understand why someone [or even ourselves] behaves in a particular way is an avoidance tactic to prevent us feeling the painful emotions attached to the result of that behaviour.

There is no need to understand why. Why is often irrelevant - knowing why someone did something doesn't excuse poor behaviour.

Instead of focusing on 'why' - focus on what this made you feel and what your next steps will be.

Remember you are not responsible for how he does/doesn't feel.

@Linguini

Are you sure you've written an accurate account here? I simply can't believe what I've read.

Believe it.

Some parents are too wrapped up in their own world/work/a spider spinning a web.

I was once at a swimming pool and got in the deep end by mistake, I couldn't swim. My mum and her friend were there and there were 4 children all together.

After bobbing up and down, feet touching the bottom, me pushing off and trying to cry for help but getting a mouthful of water each time I came up suddenly I became calm and realised if I walked underwater to the shallow end I could get out.

My mother's reaction when I told her was, "oh OK". She was sitting chatting with her friend. I was about 6 or 7.

OP

I'm sorry I do not know what to say, your DH obviously does need some help.