H ignored choking son

[whatdidIimarry]

I was halfway out of the front door carrying something large and bulky when I heard our 8 year old cry out, clearly frightened and distressed, ' HE''S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' And I could hear our five year old making a choking sound. I wasn't too alarmed as they were in the (quite small) back room with H who is his work's first aider so I knew he could handle it, giving me two seconds to put what I was carrying down. But as I did this I heard my son again, clearly frightened out of his wits, 'HELP! HELP! HE'S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' , I could still hear the younger one making choking noises and I couldn't hear H as all so I ran to the room they were in. And there I saw five year old on all fours, face down and with a piece of regurgitated orange in front of him, and our 8 year sitting rigid and upright with eyes the size of saucers looking utterly distressed and terrified.

And there is H literally sitting at his desk, just one metre away from the five year old, with his back to the kids, doing some work on his laptop.

I comfort the kids and then say to H, who has still not turned around at all, and clearly has not at any point, and say, ' did you not hear eldest? Did you not hear how frightened he was?' 'I just thought they were messing around' said H. So I repeat, ' Answer me honestly, could you genuinely not hear in his voice how terrified he was?' ' No', said H, I thought they were messing around'.

Any, any fool would have heard that this was a child who was genuinely alarmed and frightened. How good an actor does he think our 8 year old is? And how good an actor does he think our five year old is, that he can mimic choking like that? And why wouldn't you even turn to look to check?

That's not normal is it? I have long realised that H has serious issues with a very limited ability to empathise with others, but this has shocked me, and I didn't realise there was much left about him that could shock me. Why on earth wouldn't a normal protective parenting instinct have kicked in?!

Your comment- 'he is the ultimate Disney dad but I organise the Disney' really resonates with me. My husband seems the same as yours and has ADHD (recently diagnosed). Will rarely admit fault, life events are always someone else's fault and not his. He'll argue that till the cows come home. It's hard living with him but will be harder living without since his vindictiveness will ensure he fights for custody, finances, unfairly till the end.

@whatdidIimarry If he realised ds2 was choking he would absolutely help and comfort him afterwards.

But you told him afterwards that your child was choking and he didn't comfort him or absolutely help, did he?

[quote whatdidIimarry]@falalalalalalalallama is right. If he realised ds2 was choking he would absolutely help and comfort him afterwards. I've seen him do things like this. He didn't help as he did not process that there was a problem. As utterly unbelievable as that sounds I do think it is the truth.

As for conflating understanding him with caring about him....No. I don't care about him at all. I really don't. He cut his hand badly earlier in the year with a knife and I felt nothing. Well, I did. I felt irritation with the noise he was making. I spoke to a counsellor and she said I have had to emotionally shut down to him to survive living with him, to survive living like this. And I think that's true.

I certainly do not think 'poor man'. Very occasionally I think it is sad that he has basically destroyed what mattered most to him, a happy marriage with me and happy family. He really, really wanted that. I think it was more important to him than his job, and his job is very important to him. But he was completely incapable of acting in a way that achieved that.

Even when I told him what the problems were and what he needed to do to fix things he never did. He never even remembered the conversations. Even though they were repeated over and over. And that is tragic, it is tragic that someone is such an agent of their own downfall and can't even see it, so keeps on acting in such a self-destructive way. But I don't care anymore. I can't forgive him for never recognising he had problem and never seeking help for it. Even if that's not fair as he may have a disorder that makes him incapable of that recognition, I can't forgive it anyway.

Sometimes I get so frustrated and angry that I have revenge fantasies. And in those fantasies I curse him with self-insight.
If he was able to see how he behaves, how it has affected me and how I feel about him, how he has at times made the kids feel, how he has so unnecessarily and so avoidably destroyed things, it would kill him. I can't think of a crueller thing to do to him than that.[/quote]

I could've written this. Reading this has made me cry.

OP, those are very powerful words.

He does sound like a narcissist but it's intriguing that you're so sure he would care deeply if he fully understood what he'd done to you all, despite years of him apparently not caring while in the act. Do you think that's something you're projecting on to him as even imagining that he would care so very much suggests you see something in him that would be inconsistent with narcissism. Or is it more likely you're describing a part of him that simply doesn't exist?

I've known men like this who are able to have quite self indulgent and convincing moments of regret and contrition, but then are rigidly opposed to doing anything differently and quickly regret the conversations. That's classic narcissism. Your dh seems different if he genuinely never has those moments. That lacks a narcissist's manipulative strategy.

Another one in your position op. Dh has something very off with him, but can’t leave because it would put the kids at risk. He doesn’t ‘see’ the danger.

Instances I’ve witnessed include letting DD aged 1 walk down the stairs with him trailing behind (she had just started walking)- no thought to how he could catch her if she fell
Same dd at 3 he let hang through the bollards of a fence that was about 10ft above concrete slabs, he didn’t think it was dangerous.

Your post is really resonating with me, another time I fell off a stair on the bus and badly tore my ankle ligaments. He just watched and didn’t get up to help.

When kids have been watched by him and get hurt he lies to protect his own image, even if it was accidental. Will literally lie even if I can prove he is. Then if I don’t let it drop he tells me it was a joke and he was playing. Today he moved something back to where it wasn’t earlier and tried to convince me I hadn’t seen it.

I can’t leave him because he would absolutely be a danger to them, ironically works in the emergency services.
I’ve been keeping a diary in my phone notes of everything incase I ever need it. I daydream everyday about escaping but unless he left of his own accord, which he wouldn’t, I’m trapped.

I would not wait until these children are older (how old exactly?) to separate from him either. That is an action they will not thank you for doing.

I have previously asked in other threads what the poster learnt about relationships when they were growing up. You subconsciously chose someone not too dissimilar to your dad, after all we learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents. Going forward to present day would you want your kids as adults to potentially choose someone just like their dad?. No you would not so do not let history repeat itself here. This relationship is not good enough for you either.

If I am trying to talk about how something affects me or the kids or getting him to modify what he does in some way, or get a decision on something to do with teh kids he CANNOT concentrate on the 'thing' under discussion. He can ONLY concentrate on how it is making him feel (bad, as he interprets all these conversations as an attack) and so all he replies with is about his feelings

This sounds like narcissism to me. Ex is a narcissist and even though I know that, it still shocks me sometimes to see how everything is about him - literally everything. It’s impossible to have a proper conversation with him because he has no empathy or understanding. When it suits him, he can fake it, but it’s not genuine. Once he wrote what I thought was a genuinely heartfelt letter about his parents. I then referred to it and he had completely forgotten what he wrote and just shrugged. That display of remorse and care was just that - a display, an act. In reality, he felt absolutely nothing.

Don’t leave the DC with him. Don’t underestimate his impairments. It helped me to read up on personality disorders and try to understand. I mentally went back through our time together with these fresh eyes, and it did me a lot of good.

Whatever is wrong with your DH, things can’t go on like this. X

Notsomerryandbright

Re your comment:-
"I can’t leave him because he would absolutely be a danger to them"

This is really no reason or basis for you to remain with him. He's a menace to them now.

If he cannot be at all bothered with his children now in terms of protecting them as much as possible from harm to themselves, what makes you think he would want them around him going forward?. You're not really safe and secure with him either particularly if you hurt your own self in an accident as you have seen. He could not care less, you people to such a man are bit part players circling around him with him at the centre of his own universe. Such a man would probably also only demand say three days a week purely as a means of further "punishing" you for having the gall in his eyes to be leaving him, this most perfect of men in his own head.

If he is too difficult/batshit/self absorbed for YOU to deal with, its the SAME deal for your kids too. You need to be seen here to be fully protecting them from his influence and trying to do that whilst you are all under the same roof is impossible.

Notsomerryandbright,

re your comment:-
"Today he moved something back to where it wasn’t earlier and tried to convince me I hadn’t seen it".

And that is gaslighting which is an insidious form of pyschological abuse and otherwise torment directed deliberately against you. He is trying to make you doubt your own version of reality. Your relationship with him is really to all intents and purposes over.

What did he say afterwards? How have the kids reacted since? Such a fright.

I could never forgive ir trust him after this

Ex is a narcissist and even though I know that, it still shocks me sometimes to see how everything is about him - literally everything. It’s impossible to have a proper conversation with him because he has no empathy or understanding. When it suits him, he can fake it, but it’s not genuine

This is my ex too. Everything is about him, how it affects him. He will never own up to anything, rather redirect, lie, anything to point blame away from him and on to someone else. He'll forget entire conversations where I'd finally thought I was getting through to him, say the conversation never happened. Agree to things and then say he never agreed. Like someone had whispered in his ear and made him change his mind. But he hadn't changed his mind, he'd known what he was going to do from the get go, he'd just played along with whatever 'sounded' right at the time.

OP I'm sorry you're stuck in this relationship.

You know you need to basically be a single parent living with their dad now, don't you? You can't trust him with them. Is that feasible?

Such a man would probably also only demand say three days a week purely as a means of further "punishing" you for having the gall in his eyes to be leaving him, this most perfect of men in his own head.

You have no way of knowing that. Even if true, three days with someone who doesn't react to a choking child is a very long time. Wake up to the reality that children will be left in his sole charge if she leaves, whether you like it or not.

I knew that thread would quickly descend into autism. It's a total myth that autistic people are unempathetic. We feel for others strongly but struggle to express it verbally.

Possibly he could have been hyper focused and just have not noticed but again me, as an autistic person in a room with children would be utterly focused on their well being and safety even if I was doing something else as well.

Having just done a first aid course your husbands response was not normal or correct. He should have asked your son to cough. Then if nothing comes out, some sharp slaps on the back, and then if needed some abdominal thrusts. Your poor 8 year old was correct to panic as choking can kill. I would be livid.

Ps. Your 8 year old is a hero and did exactly the right thing by calling for help

@JulesRimetStillGleaming

I knew that thread would quickly descend into autism. It's a total myth that autistic people are unempathetic. We feel for others strongly but struggle to express it verbally.

Possibly he could have been hyper focused and just have not noticed but again me, as an autistic person in a room with children would be utterly focused on their well being and safety even if I was doing something else as well.

Not all people with autism do feel much empathy for others though. That's why it's a spectrum

It's utterly soul destroying that children can't be protected from people like this. @whatdidIimarry is in a no win situation and staying with him is the only way she can keep her children safe.

Lawmakers learn nothing from the tragedies we see in the news.

Not all people with autism do feel much empathy for others though.

Not all people without autism do feel much empathy for others either

My 12 year old son is autistic, goes to a special needs school and is the most caring child you could ever wish to meet.

However when my younger DS hurts himself, 12 year old DS won't look up, won't realise anything is wrong. Younger DS was shouting me extremely loudly the other day because he got himself stuck on the windowsill. I came rushing in to help. Ds12 was in the same room and didn't look up from his tablet he was playing a game on.

He would however have empathy for anyone who hurt themselves, he just may not see it as quickly as anyone else would.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I agree, but what options do I have? If I leave he will 100% seek 50/50 on principle alone. I have nothing but my word that these things have occurred. He has his profession behind him. I had pnd after ds and he said in an argument that that would make him more favourable for custody as I sought help for mh after a traumatic second C-section and have ongoing anxiety.

If I stay I can at least shelter the kids from the worst of it. On the surface he isn’t unkind to them, but he isn’t capable and needs supervising. He definitely gaslights me, I’m aware of it and know what he’s doing. I can cope with realising that this isn’t a marriage. It’s a situation I’m trying to make the best of until the kids are old enough to know how to keep themselves safe. I could be court ordered to give access and then who would keep them safe?

I’m fortunate he works full time and takes the piss with his hobby so the damage done by him is minimal. Once they start school they’ll see even less of him.

@girlmom21

Not all people with autism do feel much empathy for others though.

Not all people without autism do feel much empathy for others either

🤦🏼‍♀️ All you've done there is reiterate what I've already said? What exactly is your aim here???

@GrannytoaUnicorn I've said the complete opposite to you, actually.

Your husband sounds cold, calculated and criminally complacent. I'm so sorry for your situation. It sounds like he has contempt for child care and prioritises his 'work' on the computer.

I don't know what's wrong with your husband but you must start training your kids, primarily the 8 year old now. They should learn basic first aid, how to use a phone to reach you, and most of all how to swim. Give them iron clad safety rules about things not to do e.g. never approach strange dogs, stay away from people carrying hot drinks.

Obviously it depends on your circumstances - I was drilled as a child to never be behind a horse because they are more likely to kick back and my dss learnt the exact same rule but you're probably not descended from a long line of farriers and around horses. Try to get swimming lessons that feature safety - at ours there was a boat which was deliberately capsized (in a swimming pool) and kids had to swim clear so they learnt what to do when they hit water. (It was the highlight of the term for them.) Warn your 8 year old not to trust dad - should be relatively easy in the circumstances - you can try to be nice and say dad is a bit absentminded.