H ignored choking son

[whatdidIimarry]

I was halfway out of the front door carrying something large and bulky when I heard our 8 year old cry out, clearly frightened and distressed, ' HE''S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' And I could hear our five year old making a choking sound. I wasn't too alarmed as they were in the (quite small) back room with H who is his work's first aider so I knew he could handle it, giving me two seconds to put what I was carrying down. But as I did this I heard my son again, clearly frightened out of his wits, 'HELP! HELP! HE'S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' , I could still hear the younger one making choking noises and I couldn't hear H as all so I ran to the room they were in. And there I saw five year old on all fours, face down and with a piece of regurgitated orange in front of him, and our 8 year sitting rigid and upright with eyes the size of saucers looking utterly distressed and terrified.

And there is H literally sitting at his desk, just one metre away from the five year old, with his back to the kids, doing some work on his laptop.

I comfort the kids and then say to H, who has still not turned around at all, and clearly has not at any point, and say, ' did you not hear eldest? Did you not hear how frightened he was?' 'I just thought they were messing around' said H. So I repeat, ' Answer me honestly, could you genuinely not hear in his voice how terrified he was?' ' No', said H, I thought they were messing around'.

Any, any fool would have heard that this was a child who was genuinely alarmed and frightened. How good an actor does he think our 8 year old is? And how good an actor does he think our five year old is, that he can mimic choking like that? And why wouldn't you even turn to look to check?

That's not normal is it? I have long realised that H has serious issues with a very limited ability to empathise with others, but this has shocked me, and I didn't realise there was much left about him that could shock me. Why on earth wouldn't a normal protective parenting instinct have kicked in?!

@JulesRimetStillGleaming

I knew that thread would quickly descend into autism. It's a total myth that autistic people are unempathetic. We feel for others strongly but struggle to express it verbally.

Possibly he could have been hyper focused and just have not noticed but again me, as an autistic person in a room with children would be utterly focused on their well being and safety even if I was doing something else as well.

I'm autistic and I'm hyper vigilant with my kids. My husband is autistic and much more inattentive. Neither is any of our fault, it's just the way we are.

I'm the primary caregiver and DH works in a very niche creative industry that he's very talented at. We've found what works for us. If he's on his laptop working and a child falls over, he wouldn't have that initial reaction to grab them, scoop them up and comfort them. I would. It's happened a few times. If it happens when I'm in another room I have to go in or shout 'DH, X has fallen over, pick them up!'. If our children go to him for attention or affection y gives it in abundance.

Amy Schumer tells a story about knowing her husband was autistic from one of their very first dates when she fell over in the street and he just froze, didn't say anything or grab her, or pull her up. She adores her husband for who he is too. She says she thought 'Huh, that's unusual' and I thought 'That's DH'.

Neither of us is a psychopath, sociopath, abnormal, cruel, calculating or any of the other words I've seen bandied about on here. Our children are happy and thriving.

Description of that Amy Schumer story I mentioned:

'Using only a few striking vignettes, Schumer hit much closer to reality. Schumer — never more brilliant than when she’s subverting norms — describes an incident in which, while strolling with Fischer, she fell down. Where “10 out of 10” typical folks would have rushed to assist, Fischer stood frozen, mouth agape, offering only shock. Sounds familiar.'

I noticed you had a name change fail op, when you referred me to your attacking response to @SpanielsAreMyLife.

Do as you wish. People saying that your husband ignoring a choking child is dangerous isn't an 'armchair condemnation'. It is their opinion. Just because you disagree doesn't make it wrong.

You are getting angry at the wrong people.

Stick in the relationship if that's what you prefer.

Good luck.

OP

You poor woman.

A terrifying thread to read.

Please create a paper trail with your GP.

Start planning your escape.

With finances.
With your career.
Start planning.

Reach out for support from family and friends.

Clearly your marriage is over.

You detach further and you plan.

You create a paper trail of how dangerous his neglect is potentially.

The older your children get the less concern you will have for safety and more that their views will be taken into account.

Stop facilitating Disney Dad.
Stop arranging things.
Can you move into another bedroom for some space?

I think you need to protect yourself as much as the children.

He sounds awful.
I cannot imagine how stressful your life is living with him.

Speak to Women's aid for practical advice.

God help you.

11:42MrsBaublesDylan

The OP did not attack Spaniels, don't be ridiculous.

11:42MrsBaublesDylan

I don't know if you have a better idea given that the OP is informing the team carrying out her husband's assessment of the incident but it's understandably anxious about doing anything that would give her partner sole charge?

Are you documenting these incidents with anyone or in any way?

If you have a list of behavioural history to back you up then you can make a strong case that he shouldn't be allowed unsupervised access.

If I were in your position I think I'd be getting every resource and team involved possible until something stuck (obviously I don't know that you aren't already).

This is unsafe (understatement of the year!) and he can't be trusted with them unsupervised. I'd be making serious plans to leave.

I kind of understand you have been trying to support and get him help but how long have you flogged that dead horse for since you fully realised how big an issue is here? I mean sure, where's my time machine for you to borrow and all that, but what I'm getting at is it's time to stop doing that and start putting a safeguarding plan in place for when you leave.

I knew OP wouldn't be back! It's always the same.

@GrannytoaUnicorn

I knew OP wouldn't be back! It's always the same.

It's been a day since the OP

2 days sorry! I've lost a day in the Xmas haze clearly!

FWIW, which may be nothing, I was told in first aid that if the person having trouble with their food is making a choking noise they are not, in fact, choking but are gagging and are best left to clear it themselves. True choking is silent.

Thank you so much for responding. I’m so sorry for what you went through and for what the OP is going through.

Sorry wrong thread!

@Pollingbadly

11:42MrsBaublesDylan

I don't know if you have a better idea given that the OP is informing the team carrying out her husband's assessment of the incident but it's understandably anxious about doing anything that would give her partner sole charge?

She has a name change fail and was very rude to @SpanielsAreMyLife

And no, other than what I have suggested I have no further suggestions for op. Which may be just as well as she doesn't appear interested.

Sociopath trait right there

baubles
Spaniels was extremely rude to the op. She handled it well and predictably left as you and others are such .. better left unsaid.

Unless you have a positive solution to offer you're just bullying an op who cannot physically remove their precious child to a place of real safety. Her desire to help her child was patently obvious. Your desire to bully, also

Also unsure why you're quite so gleeful about a name change fail. I'm sure she has more on her mind

@mildtomoderate

My husband would ignore something like this too. He's autistic. He tries every day to be present for the kids but he's often just away in his own world most of the time. If he's in the room with a child and the child falls over and starts crying he doesn't think to go to them, pick them up and comfort them.

And yet, he adores his children. Would die for them.

He has no executive function either. Loses his keys or his bank card regularly. Got his taxes in a mess a couple of years ago, so I do them now. Doesn't seem to know how to move forward with life in anything except his work.

So I get it. I love him. I knew he was like this when I married him.

I don't know anyone who's Autistic who is like that. Despite the oft touted lack of empathy thing. My boys are Autistic, I have friends with Autistic children, I know Autistic adults. They all have empathy and none of them wouldn't see to an injured/upset child and 100% there's no way they'd ignore a choking child. Some, not all, of the Autistic adults and children I know can struggle with seeing how another person is feeling when the cues are subtle, but absolutely nothing like what the OPs talking about. That's something else all together.

@whatdidIimarry

When he shows normal caring emotions he is acting....

I don't think so. I think he really has those emotions. But when he is being caring he needs to get a 'reward' for it. He would become angry if his attempts at caring were rejected. Because he doesn't have a normal person's centring of the hurting person/ child: them rejecting him would cause a conflict between his needs and their's and he would always centre on his needs in those situations.

It sounds like it's always about him. He might register his children's distress or hurt, but it's only in relation to how it effects him. My Autistic just turned 4 years old can manage to feel genuine care and concern for someone else. It's a fairly basic part of being human.

Given how he acts I understand why you wouldn't feel they were safe with him if you separated. People like to pretend that there's always a way to stop your child spending a significant amount of time with an unsafe parent, reality is very different. You need something you can prove in black and white. This doesn't lend itself to such proof. He could argue he panicked and froze. I'm sorry you and your precious boys are in this situation.

Sorry not 'pretend' 🤦, people want to believe, was rushing and couldn't think of the words for what I meant.

I don't know if staying is the right choice. You have to consider the cost to you and also that your DSs will be witnessing and normalising his behaviour. It must have been so scary, to not only realise his brother was choking, but also to see his Dad not respond at all. I'd consider seeking family counseling for this, though not their Dad just you and the boys. His behaviour is going to impact them whether you stay or go. Sometimes theirs really no good options, but they will be less at risk physically as they get older and they

will at some stage be able to decide for themselves who they live with. You don't need to make a decision this moment, and you can chose at any moment in the future to seperate over this. Think about it, get some counseling for yourself or go on a waitlist if you can't get in straight away, get some support for your boys, a little time might help you see a way to move forward more clearly.