Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

H ignored choking son

273 replies

whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 09:39

I was halfway out of the front door carrying something large and bulky when I heard our 8 year old cry out, clearly frightened and distressed, ' HE''S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' And I could hear our five year old making a choking sound. I wasn't too alarmed as they were in the (quite small) back room with H who is his work's first aider so I knew he could handle it, giving me two seconds to put what I was carrying down. But as I did this I heard my son again, clearly frightened out of his wits, 'HELP! HELP! HE'S CHOKING! HE'S CHOKING!' , I could still hear the younger one making choking noises and I couldn't hear H as all so I ran to the room they were in. And there I saw five year old on all fours, face down and with a piece of regurgitated orange in front of him, and our 8 year sitting rigid and upright with eyes the size of saucers looking utterly distressed and terrified.

And there is H literally sitting at his desk, just one metre away from the five year old, with his back to the kids, doing some work on his laptop.

I comfort the kids and then say to H, who has still not turned around at all, and clearly has not at any point, and say, ' did you not hear eldest? Did you not hear how frightened he was?' 'I just thought they were messing around' said H. So I repeat, ' Answer me honestly, could you genuinely not hear in his voice how terrified he was?' ' No', said H, I thought they were messing around'.

Any, any fool would have heard that this was a child who was genuinely alarmed and frightened. How good an actor does he think our 8 year old is? And how good an actor does he think our five year old is, that he can mimic choking like that? And why wouldn't you even turn to look to check?

That's not normal is it? I have long realised that H has serious issues with a very limited ability to empathise with others, but this has shocked me, and I didn't realise there was much left about him that could shock me. Why on earth wouldn't a normal protective parenting instinct have kicked in?!

OP posts:
Original poster
whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 10:50

@CagneyNYPD1

Can I ask you a question *@whatdidIimarry*? If the dc want to get involved in an activity or club that doesn't fall within your husband's interests, what happens?
At the moment I take them to all the evening ones, but that's just to do with our work patterns.

If it was up to him, he would not organise the activity on their behalf.
If I told him I organised it and he had to take them, he probably would.

He loves spending time with them but I have to organise it for him. He is the ultimate Disney dad, except I have to organise the Disney.

OP posts:
Original poster
whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 10:53

@PermanentTemporary

Yes I would definitely tell the team.

What do you think it is instead?

I don't know. I've read various things but none quite fit.

But there have been so, so many things that are just not normal. I could cope with it if he recognised he was abnormal, but he doesn't. He just thinks I am ' getting at him' to be 'horrible' when I try to talk about it.

OP posts:
Chamomileteaplease · 27/12/2021 10:53

Even if he has some sort of disorder, surely you can learn that it is best to look after your child, especially in a dangerous situation! Learnt behaviour Confused.

Original poster
whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 10:54

@DropYourSword

I just...I can’t understand how it wouldn’t be a parents natural instinct to check their child was ok in this situation. I can’t understand this at all!!
I can't either. There have been other incidents, but none as stark as this.
OP posts:
Original poster
whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 10:55

@Chamomileteaplease

Even if he has some sort of disorder, surely you can learn that it is best to look after your child, especially in a dangerous situation! Learnt behaviour Confused.
If he could do this it would be okay. But to learn by rote like that, he would have to admit to himself that he was at fault in some way, and he can't do that. He just won't, won't do that.
OP posts:
CeibaTree · 27/12/2021 10:56

I think this time he just couldn't hear the emotions.

That is irrelevant. If one of your children is making a commotion why wouldn't anyone at least turn round to see what was going on, especially when the word 'help'' was being shouted. Imagine the effect this episode will have had on your children - they now know that even when they are begging for help from one of their most trusted adults it will not come. So when/if something else bad does happen will they not bother asking for help? And what will the consequences of that be?

I don't want to sound dramatic, but your children are actually in danger from this man and you are the only person in the world who can protect them from him. As a first step you need to get your son checked over at the hospital and tell them exactly what happened so they can refer your family to social services. I am very sorry for you having to go through this, your head must be spinning, although from what you have subsequently written it sounds like you've been previously burying your head in the sand about him.

CheshireKitten123 · 27/12/2021 10:57

Is he slightly deaf, OP?

Or is he one f those people who concentrates so hard on something they tune everything else out?

notagainnotagain · 27/12/2021 10:57

Please focus on your children today. Ask him to leave

SliceOfCakeCupOfTea · 27/12/2021 10:57

I would have kicked right off at DH over that. It would make me consider the marriage and probably look to end it. But, as their father, if you did leave, wouldn't he be entitled to 50/50 custody unless some court order was put in place? How quickly would that be? I just don't think I could trust him to ever look after the kids on his own. Even if a court did say he could have them, I would be full of panic that something would happen.

Deafdonkey · 27/12/2021 10:58

You can never trust him again, you need to know this, he is not capable of keeping your children safe. I do understand, I have a very close family member like this, and they can not be left in sole charge because when it comes down to it they are not capable. The most capable person in that room was your older child who thought to shout for help, in future if it is not safe to leave older child alone it is not safe to leave with husband.

Also a good parent is interested in what the child is interested, regardless of their interests.

thedancingbear · 27/12/2021 10:58

@Theunamedcat

Can we stop with the casual abalism on here this is yet another thread where people claim something neurodiverse people fwiw both my younger children are on the umbrella pathway there have been a couple of choking incidents over the years BOTH of them reacted appropriately and swiftly
100% this.

The recurring MN trope of ‘neuro-diverse = arsehole’ is ignorant and hateful.

I know plenty of people who are not neurotypical, and who manage to safely bring up children

Longdistance · 27/12/2021 10:59

I wouldn’t want him as a first aider at work.

Original poster
whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 11:00

@CheshireKitten123

Is he slightly deaf, OP?

Or is he one f those people who concentrates so hard on something they tune everything else out?

He did hear them, it would have been impossible not to, and he said he did hear them.
OP posts:
AmyDudley · 27/12/2021 11:00

This so reminded me of my XH. I had a similar situation - baby choking and he ignored completely, I heard from the kitchen and ran through two rooms and had to take emergency action. H was in the room and just sat and ignored it and was not remotely bothered afterwards - could not see that there was any problem at all with his non reaction.
Like your H many would describe my XH as odd. he was a strange person.
Out of interest does your H completely over react to total non events creating anxiety in others? Mine used to literally scream and I would go running thinking he'd really hurt himself only to find he'd dropped a tea bag on the floor or something equally un urgent. But a child being hurt, a need for urgent reaction elicited no response at all from him.
I don;t know where you go from here, I can only tell you that mine never changed.

Siepie · 27/12/2021 11:00

I think this time he just couldn't hear the emotions.

But he could hear the words.

My neighbour's children have a ride on fire engine. When I hear them shouting "help! fire!" I look out the window. I'm almost 100% sure that they're playing with that toy again, but when you hear a child shouting for help, you look. Your husband didn't even bother looking behind him at his own child choking.

Your husband can not keep your children safe. You can not leave them alone with him if he won't look after them.

SheWolfOFFrancee · 27/12/2021 11:01

Stop making excuses for the man OP! Your child could have died in the same room as him and he has no remorse or empathy. You cannot trust him to have your children’s safety as his number one priority.

If you hadn’t been in the house and your son hadn’t managed to cough up what he was choking on think of the consequences. Every time you leave him with the children you’re running the risk of this happening again.

It’s chilling to read but even more chilling that all you’re doing is excusing him

FantasticCrete · 27/12/2021 11:02

@whatdidIimarry

It has shocked me. I don't even have words for what I feel.

He is odd. He is an odd person. I definitely think he has some undiagnosed something.

He feels his emotions strongly and can be very loving and affectionate. That's why I fell for him (and we have a lot of interests in common, we used to have a lot of fun).. So he has strong feelings of love for his kids and he loves spending time with them doing things that he enjoys (which happily coincides with things they enjoy).

He did show some signs of poor empathy before we had kids but I put that down to aberrations as he was so affectionate and loving outside of those times. Its since having kids that I realised that he doesn't have 'aberrations' but that he has a really serious problem. He just can't understand other people's feelings or emotions or react normally to them, even his children. And yes, he will ignore them if he is concentrating on something else, even when that is completely inappropriate, like that time.

He also has absolutely no common sense which I think is often linked to an almost complete inability to see things from another's. perspective.

Sounds like undiagnosed autism to me. People saying he's a psychopath Hmm, people with HF ASD often don't react in the way we'd expect as some people with ASD don't process information in the same way as NT people. In some this can express as a lack of urgency, even after they raised what has happened.
SheWoreYellow · 27/12/2021 11:02

@CheshireKitten123

Is he slightly deaf, OP?

Or is he one f those people who concentrates so hard on something they tune everything else out?

My DH misses conversations that are happening in the same room as him because he’s zoned out.

If it’s something like that I don’t know what you do about it though? Make sure he doesn’t try and do something else at the same time?

KurtWildesChristmasNamechange · 27/12/2021 11:05

Even IF he thought they were messing around, the calls of 'he's choking' should be enough for a quick look to make sure everything is actually ok!

No, this isn't right at all.

Newnews · 27/12/2021 11:06

I don’t think people are being ableist necessarily. Surely people can accept that certain maladaptive behaviours can be a sign of a condition or a MH disorder. And also accept that other people with that disorder may not struggle with those same behaviours.

I have two family members with autism. Both are “high functioning” for want of a better term. Both hold down jobs with high levels of stress and responsibility. But one of them is an excellent parent in every way, and the other really struggles to be able to put the needs of their children first because they struggle with empathy and recognising other people’s feelings. But both of these people have autism.

I do believe the OP when she says her husband would be distraught if their son died. It’s not black and white, what he did was definitely negligent but that also doesn’t mean he’s a monster who is completely incapable of any emotion.

But that does mean the kids aren’t safe with him even if he does love them.

EIIa · 27/12/2021 11:06

I have two little boys of the same age op and I found reading that so hard and upsetting

I Hope your children are ok

Mine would be traumatised

Original poster
whatdidIimarry · 27/12/2021 11:07

I am very sorry for you having to go through this, your head must be spinning, although from what you have subsequently written it sounds like you've been previously burying your head in the sand about him

I really am not burying my head in the sand! I have spent a lot of time analysing him and trying to get help and support for him. Its got me nowhere and it never will. He is incapable of engaging with support as he won't admit a problem.

Its just that, I don't know what to do now. If we split he would absolutely go for 50/50 custody, and I can't see that being good for the kids. As well as incidents like this one, he is completely and utterly unable to deal with their emotions or behaviour.

OP posts:
thedancingbear · 27/12/2021 11:07

@FantasticCrete what bigoted shit. Neurodiverse does not equal ‘unsafe around kids’

Loveisthere · 27/12/2021 11:08

I think you have to ask yourself what would have happened if your dc did not cough up the orange. Now the answer to that is enough to make me say to dh that he has to leave. Your children must have been beyond terrified and daddy just ignored them. So pleased your dc are ok now

thedancingbear · 27/12/2021 11:08

@Newnews

I don’t think people are being ableist necessarily. Surely people can accept that certain maladaptive behaviours can be a sign of a condition or a MH disorder. And also accept that other people with that disorder may not struggle with those same behaviours.

I have two family members with autism. Both are “high functioning” for want of a better term. Both hold down jobs with high levels of stress and responsibility. But one of them is an excellent parent in every way, and the other really struggles to be able to put the needs of their children first because they struggle with empathy and recognising other people’s feelings. But both of these people have autism.

I do believe the OP when she says her husband would be distraught if their son died. It’s not black and white, what he did was definitely negligent but that also doesn’t mean he’s a monster who is completely incapable of any emotion.

But that does mean the kids aren’t safe with him even if he does love them.

So one of them is good with their kids, and the other is shit

Almost like ‘normal’ people eh?