I don't think I will be allowed to see my new grandchild.

[Chopinandchampagne]

Some of you may remember my previous threads regarding my relationship with my daughter and SIL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4145356-SIL-and-money-issues?msgid=109152806#109152806

It has been a difficult year, following the death of DH, with lots of firsts to get through, but I have just about survived, with a lot of support from DD2 and DD3, DH's family and friends. And, earlier in the year, DD1 told me she was expecting DGS1 in early January. This time she told me very shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, and was clearly thrilled saying that 'new life' was coming after DH's death. She was delighted to find out that the baby is a boy, as SIL particularly wanted a son, after two daughters.

I had thought that, if there were any positives from DH's death - and it is hard to think of any, as I loved him so much - the family might be reconciled and healed. And I was very happy to hear about the baby, although a bit concerned, given the two previous emergency C sections (although I kept my concerns to myself).

DD1 has now moved to Ireland, having purchased a small holding with her inheritance from DH's aunt, as DH drafted his aunt's will so that his share would go to his DC if he were to predecease her. DD1 had sent me photos of the new property, says how much they love it over there, it feels 'so right' etc. They went for about a month and have now returned to the UK for the birth. I thought all was fine with my relationship with DD1, we were having natural conversations, FaceTimes with DGD1 and DGD2, ending conversations with 'I love you; etc.

I had enjoyed picking out some Christmas presents, which I thought they would enjoy. With the DGDs, I have sent presents which I knew they would appreciate, for DD1 some cashmere hat, gloves, scarf etc, and socks for baby, as I know it will be cold on the small holding, but also a food hamper, chocolates and candles sent jointly to DD1 and SIL, saying with love from Mum etc.

I spoke to DD1 on Friday and I could tell that there was something wrong, as she seemed more tense, less relaxed. She started by saying that she thought I should claim a refund for the hamper, that I had wasted my money, as the ham was too dry and not as good as supermarket ham. I thanked her for letting me know and said I would do so. She said the chocolates had too many additives, so they couldn't eat them (I had chosen dairy and soy free ones, as DGD1 had an allergy to dairy), so I said fine, just regift or donate them. They are generally happy with the DGC's toys, although I shouldn't send anything else. I said I understood, and was conscious that they wouldn't want too much stuff to take back to Ireland.

Then I asked her about how she was feeling and how the 36 week scan had gone. It seems that the baby is small (10th percentile), although appears healthy, but she is very worried about the birth, which is understandable, given the history. She wants a natural birth and is terrified of intervention. She thinks some of the medical staff are horrible and referred to one who asked her last time if she wanted a dead baby on her conscience, after she refused medical advice to have an elective C section. I made reassuring comments. She also said that she might not tell anyone when she went into labour as she didn't want to worry anyone, such as SIL's grandparents (last time she sent me messages before the birth and we spoke afterwards).

We then had a discussion about Ireland. They have run into some problems to do with the Forestry/Agricultural Commission which are preventing them from obtaining a felling licence and flock number, which they need to purchase animals. It seems that not all of the land has been conveyed to them and they have fallen out with the solicitor, whom they feel has been negligent. SIL spent a long time composing a letter and was angry when he only received a brief reply from the solicitor.

Anyway, after all that, I said that I and her sisters were looking forward to seeing the baby, especially after not seeing DGD1 as a baby, and DGD2 because of lockdown. She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said 'SIL is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'. She said that I had tried to make her feel guilty over her treatment of DH and that she didn't feel guilty. She repeated this and then said that I had said that I was going to write SIL a letter in the summer and that it might now be too late. I was genuinely taken aback by this.

For context, before I visited in the summer, we had a heated conversation where I said that she had hurt DH (and me) by not telling him about the birth of DGD1 for 14 months or her marriage and by moving without telling us. I admit I was angry as I felt that DH had been cheated of precious time with his granddaughter, although I said that I knew she hadn't known that he was going to die. I said that I thought that she had been emotionally abusive in 'ghosting' us and I didn't want to form an attachment to my DGCs if there was a risk of it happening again. It would just be too painful. It made me afraid of loving them as I would wish to. DD1 had referred then to the incident, some years before, where I had made SIL leave my house (they weren't married then), as I felt he was bullying her. I said that it was all a long time ago and that 'Dad didn't do anything wrong, did he?', to which she replied 'No'. She said that SIL had told her not to be in contact.

I subsequently said, in another conversation, that I had been angry, but that I wasn't any longer, and that it would be nice if we could go out to lunch together, just the two of us, when I visited, and to start rebuilding our relationship. I duly visited, had what I thought was a very pleasant day with the family at a local attraction, then lunch with DD1 then next day. I said I thought that the previous day had gone well and she said that SIL had told her that he did not want me to visit too often (this was the first time I had visited since DH's funeral). I said that I was sorry to hear this and was there some way of resolving matters; that the 'incident' was all a long time ago, that it was time to move on, and that DH's death put disagreements into context. She said maybe I should say that to SIL and it was him I should be taking out or talking to. I said I would be happy to talk to him, but I doubted that he would want to go out with me, maybe I should write him a letter. So I floated the idea of a letter in a private conversation with DD1, but did not say that I was definitely going to write one and, upon reflection, I thought that it might be too much of a hostage to fortune.

During this lunch, which was mostly pleasant, and focusing on neutral topics, DD1 repeated again that she had cut us off because SIL had told her to, that she had had to choose and would always choose SIL. I said that I had made SIL leave my house on that occasion because I was trying to protect her, especially given her previous abusive relationship. She said she had not told SIL about this ie the previous relationship and she was not sure if she would behave in the same way as I did. She said she appreciated that I did not know that she would marry SIL at the time. I said that I understood that, in the final analysis, she would and should put her family first, but I thought she should also have some loyalty to her original family. After that, we returned to everyday topics and I thought we had both had a pleasant lunch, 'cleared the air', and that we were moving forward in rebuilding our relationship. However, it seems I was wrong.

When we returned to the house after lunch (for me to call a taxi back to the hotel), SIL went off to his workshop without speaking to me or saying goodbye. I went to the workshop and said goodbye and gave him a hug. I found it a gruelling trip without DH but went away thinking it had gone well.

Anyway, back to the present, I was blindsided by DD1's comments in the conversation to the effect that I should have written a letter and that it might be 'too late'. I said what did she think I should say in the letter. I said that it was all so long ago, that I had apologised to SIL, that we had met since then at DD1's 21st, that he had said we were 'ok'.DD1 said she didn't want anything that would upset her after the birth. I said that I would never do anything to upset her after the birth. I said that I was nice to SIL, praised him for his DIY skills and as a father, that I behaved in a civilised fashion, sent him cards and gifts, what more could I do, I couldn't make him like me. At this stage DD1 was clearly agitated and said she had to go and that she would speak to me another time. I said 'Alright darling, good bye'.

So I feel both devastated and empty at the same time. I had thought, after the most hellish two years, when I had to watch my beloved DH die and then lose his aunt, whom I was close to. When, more recently, my MIL nearly died, my sister in law has had major surgery, and I have lost one of my closest friends (the funeral is this week), I had thought that I had just about survived. I keep giving myself a talking to, saying come on, just one more step forward, nearly there, nearly the end of the year. And now this.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I would be grateful for any advice as to how handle the situation. Part of just feels like giving up, but I obviously don't want to lose DD1 again, and I am worried about the birth of DGS and would have wanted to be a support, not an aggravating factor.

Hi again
Everything you do or say is a stick to beat you with.
A hamper
Gifts
Promise of a letter (do not write one, can you imagine when he has something to pull apart and critique)

He and her will never change. You can go back and just randomly read any reply on here and it will fit. Because nothing you do will be good enough.

You keep trying, and you will keep failing, because it's not you it's them.

Drop the rope

Gosh I’m reading this and angry on your behalf. They have no understanding or sympathy for your grief and loss. Talk about making it all about them! Please look after yourself and leave them to it. Your DH obvs thinks the sun shines out of him, leave her to her delusions re your SIL.
Sometimes you just need to act and not react. Stop enabling their abuse of you. You SIL sounds a complete a’hole.

OhnGod is this lobster boy? She married him? .

Time to take a huge step back then step again. She sounds spoilt and ungrateful and while most of us would never want to give up on our children we should not just lie down as they kick us over and over again.

She wants to be the victim and she will never grow up while you still pander to her. Praising him for his DIY ffs.

I am so sorry for the loss of your DH & all the other events you have weathered over the past couple of years Chopin.

It's also sad to see how much brainspace your son in law is taking up.
Are you able to give yourself permission to focus on DD2 & DD3 for a while? - because all your attention is on DD1, who is being (probably understandably, if her marriage is what I suspect) cagey with you & is giving out massive signals to back off.

Easy to say & hard to do: - can you act as if you are taking her at her word for a while?
Stay in touch, but very light, no in-depth discussions, no looking at the past ... freeing you up to stay with happier subjects with your others daughters.

DD1 will come back to you, or not. Probably depending on how her marriage pans out & whether this move to Ireland stays permanent.

Thank you everyone for further replies and advice.

I did think twice about offering to pay for the survey, but it was out of concern and I thought SIL might just agree to it, as it was a freebie. With regard to the rest, DD1 had actively been discussing properties with me, sending links, details etc and asking for my opinion. She was quite excited about it all and we had some good discussions. I even read a few books on small holdings which she recommended, so that we could discuss things like testing the soil, what animals to buy etc, and she recommended various programmes to watch. We were also FaceTiming every weekend, with the DGC in the background waving and saying Hello Granny, and messaging most days, just about what we were doing, cooking etc, general chat, nothing heavy or controversial. I didn't make any judgmental or adverse comments about their lifestyle choices, just generally supportive noises, as a pp suggested was appropriate.

For what it's worth, my own view is that people should follow their dreams. If DD wants to live on a small holding for a while, even if it doesn't ultimately work out financially, it will have been a great experience, the DGC will love being with the animals etc. It is her life to live, her inheritance to spend, as she chooses.

In short, my relationship with DD was really improving, getting back to how it used to be, natural and loving. I really thought we had turned a corner and the trust was growing and the love had never gone away. then she went to Ireland for a month and it all changed.

The messages and FaceTimes dried up, mainly I think because the data had run out on the English mobile 'phone which DD uses. (She asked me if I could speak to my supplier and put her onto a different contract, but they said that she would need to take out a contract with an Irish company). We spoke before she left Ireland and she was anxious about the long drive home, but messaged me when she got back to say that she had arrived safely. She had been loving, sympathetic about the loss of my friend etc.Then everything seemed to change, literally overnight. She didn't ask about the health of her granny or aunt, just complained about some of the gifts and her manner was different.

I ask myself what has caused the change. The simple answer is that LB has caused the change, but I can't really fathom why, although it seems that the gifts may have been an irritant in some way. He has also had a month without interruption to influence her but, again, why, and why now?

Twillow, that's good advice about the gifts, anything from me is a target for criticism and ridicule, which must make DD feel bad. Even if we were the worst family imaginable, I would expect LB to have a little patience and tolerance for DD's sake. She did say once that he was always comparing us unfavourably with his family, because they had contributed more financially etc. I think he has just worn her defences down again, but probably useless to speculate. I do know that DD derived a lot of pleasure from her contact with me and that I am one of the very few people she has any contact with, so the adverse affect on her will be significant. She actually seems quite fragile when I spoke to her, so any further contact from me or perceived pressure, is bound to backfire, as LB can sweep in to protect DD from her evil family.

I've posted before and I'm so sorry to read your update. I'm sure you feel quite miserable after all your efforts.

Previous posters have mention narcissistic behaviour from LB but I wonder if he has a paranoid personality disorder especially regarding the solicitor and lack of response to his complaint.

What upsets me on your behalf is DD1's lack of empathy for you. How dare they criticise you after all you have, and are going through.

If you said " DD1 I have gone through the worst year of my life and I feel distressed that you and LB continue to criticise me and my actions" what would her reply be?

Talk to your daughter honestly and openly, tell her you are hurting and need to look after your own mental health and be able to grieve the loss of your DH.

Tell her you love her and your door is always open.

Then you need to step right back and look after yourself.

So so tough, I know and I wish you well.

I recognise this from various relationships that other family members have been in, and my former best friend, who had a husband that sounds very much like LB. I don't have a solution, other posters have said that you need to move on, and while I understand that this is incredibly difficult, it is also very true. Use the New Year to focus less on DD1, take up new hobbies, you don't say what you enjoy doing, but you could try golf, a swimming group, a book club, Courses on whatever you are interested in. Meet new people, get active and spend less time on thinking of her. She may well be in an abusive relationship, but she is also abusive towards you. You must stop excusing her. There is no excuse for what she has done. Not telling you about DG is appalling and you have every right to be upset. At the same time, you have what they want, money. So you should have the power in this relationship, not LB, it may be too soon for you however to be able to wield this.

Probably the reason it all changed when they got back from Ireland was because they both realised that this small-holding dream will cost more money than they envisaged and your daughter knows that her husband has started or will start to hassle you for funds.

A small holding in rural Ireland sounds idyllic but in reality it will be living in miserable conditions for most of the year, with land too wet to work with and virtually impossible to make any living from it. The house is probably in a remote location and house in crappy condition ?

Getting you to read books about soil testing, etc is just entwining you into their day dream so you will have some understanding of why they will need you to offer financial help to get the whole thing up and running.

Yes, to the previous post who said that your daughter is being abusive towards you. She may be controlled by her husband but she is also abusing you.

And yes, do remember you have power, you have money (though I'm sure it's not a free flowing tap), if she wants to hint to you that she needs new pj's or whatever - don't accept less than continued reasonable behaviour from them, even the times you can't facilitate their ££ requests/hints.

Don't pander to either of them, don't refer to her husband as your son-in-law, even to yourself, think of him as your daughter's husband, sounds a little more removed. I wouldn't mention or ask about him again to hire daughter.

Your are being treated dreadfully by both of them, it's the same script from them time after time.

@Dillydilly01

Probably the reason it all changed when they got back from Ireland was because they both realised that this small-holding dream will cost more money than they envisaged and your daughter knows that her husband has started or will start to hassle you for funds.

A small holding in rural Ireland sounds idyllic but in reality it will be living in miserable conditions for most of the year, with land too wet to work with and virtually impossible to make any living from it. The house is probably in a remote location and house in crappy condition ?

Getting you to read books about soil testing, etc is just entwining you into their day dream so you will have some understanding of why they will need you to offer financial help to get the whole thing up and running.

It's certainly doable, and doesn't necessarily involve 'miserable conditions' or unsuitable land, but you need experience in animal husbandry, raising food, drainage etc, money to live on even after you've made the purchases, and you will be heavily dependent on local goodwill while you're finding your way -- and this last it sounds as if the OP's DD and SIL are not.

I'd be more concerned at this point why the DD wasn't giving birth in Ireland, and worry that it was a matter of keeping off the radar with anyone who might come into the house and draw conclusions about her relationship being coercive/abusive.

You are right you won’t be allowed to meet your new grandson because that is LBs usual repeated pattern of punishment, power and control over you - via your DD.

He kicks her - she kicks you - your emotional pain is triangulated back in to fuel their dysfunctional and toxic system.

You are inadvertently facilitating it. You need to step far enough away and be able to tolerate your DD taking the pain which you are currently buffering so that she can see and feel for herself what is going on and then she may eventually leave him.

This is his consistent behaviour. You have always been the whipping boy and the biggest perceived threat to him. Because he likely has an untreated spiralling personality disorder / MH issue.

His emotionally discharges his dysfunction by targeting you.

Take yourself out of punching distance. Take yourself out of this system. You are a key cog in it. Remove yourself and let it spiral out of control and flounder.

Don’t expect anything else. Except more of the same. You have a choice as to how many cycles you want to keep spinning in this destructive Merry go round.

Accept this and adapt your life to that sorrow by backing away. Don’t enter into their torture chamber again.

All of the detail about the move, your meeting in the summer is just drivel to torment you with. Don’t engage in any of it.

See the patterns. Know the process. It’s very simple. Don’t get drawn to detail. See the big picture and the direction of travel. You can only do this by stepping back and up so you have perspective.

He has a significant personality disorder, your DD1 has an emotional vulnerability where she is compliant, facilitating and enabling of his destructive ways.

If you engage in anything other than vanilla and indifference you also are providing content as fuel to keep his PD raging. Don’t inadvertently facilitate this dysfunctional dynamic.

Drop the rope.

She is in an extremely coercively controlling relationship on every level. But for now she can’t see it. With you in the picture it allows him to distract her attention from him to you as the problem.

You have the most hideous of years. I suspect after having three DDs and two DGDs that this precious new life will be very important to you as a boy as you will maybe hope to get a glimpse of your late DH in him. That’s very potent.

It’s important that you have someone and somewhere to download all the crazy detailed stuff that their lives are embroiled in - because it’s crazy making being pushed and pulled emotionally in their dysfunctional world but it’s much more important that you don’t pay any attention to the detail or engage in anyway just observe the patterns and dynamics - eg no surprises they have fallen out with someone else, no surprises they were impulsive and didn’t do their homework, no surprises they reject and criticise and dictate my gifts, no surprises they are still stuck in “making amends”, no surprises they will tease and obfuscate around knowing when the baby is born and when you get to see him - ie when you have been run ragged and hurt sufficiently and deeply inflicted.

Or you could step back. Drop the rope and not get drawn in. Your DD1 needs to feel and see the full impact of him - you are inadvertently a buffer and distraction - once she is has experienced him enough and he starts on the DCs (which he will) she will seek your help. Now though you are inadvertently triangulated into facilitating this system.

It’s going to be really tough facing the second Christmas without your DH and going into another new year. Please look to actively emotionally protect and nourish yourself for this painful journey and wrap your in the calm and balm of enriching family and friends.

I have commented under different threads.

I think that your dd1, by virtue of being the oldest and the most excitingly in a relationship and a house and parenthood, has wielded a lot of control over you herself. What comes back again and again is GK Chesterton’s Father Brown quote that is used in Brideshead Revisited ‘I caught him with an unseen hook and an invisible line which is long enough to let him wander to the ends of the world and still to bring him back with a stitch upon the thread.’

Unfortunately you are the poor old fish and your daughter, not LB, holds the line.

I’m always fascinated by your threads because you always seem to sort of embody a very civilised, English, gentle civility. LB has come in like a sort of bossy, marauding thug and trampled all over you all, which is horrifying to you as it’s just not How You Live. (He clearly is absolutely dreadful!)

I only mention this as the reason I am interested to see how Ireland works out for them is that in rural farming Ireland, especially where buying and selling land is concerned, LB may find the culture is very different! Being fairly tough and unafraid of confrontation is not uncommon there, he may well be being given short shrift. I wonder what went down with the solicitor!

I very much feel for your dd, but tbh I sometimes feel she is a bit tougher than you are able as her loving mother to comprehend.

All my sympathies, it must be so hard.

Corbally makes a good point about giving birth in the Uk, it could also be because the house is not fit for habitation, and could raise concerns.

@ESGdance

You are right you won’t be allowed to meet your new grandson because that is LBs usual repeated pattern of punishment, power and control over you - via your DD.

He kicks her - she kicks you - your emotional pain is triangulated back in to fuel their dysfunctional and toxic system.

You are inadvertently facilitating it. You need to step far enough away and be able to tolerate your DD taking the pain which you are currently buffering so that she can see and feel for herself what is going on and then she may eventually leave him.

This is his consistent behaviour. You have always been the whipping boy and the biggest perceived threat to him. Because he likely has an untreated spiralling personality disorder / MH issue.

His emotionally discharges his dysfunction by targeting you.

Take yourself out of punching distance. Take yourself out of this system. You are a key cog in it. Remove yourself and let it spiral out of control and flounder.

Don’t expect anything else. Except more of the same. You have a choice as to how many cycles you want to keep spinning in this destructive Merry go round.

Accept this and adapt your life to that sorrow by backing away. Don’t enter into their torture chamber again.

All of the detail about the move, your meeting in the summer is just drivel to torment you with. Don’t engage in any of it.

See the patterns. Know the process. It’s very simple. Don’t get drawn to detail. See the big picture and the direction of travel. You can only do this by stepping back and up so you have perspective.

He has a significant personality disorder, your DD1 has an emotional vulnerability where she is compliant, facilitating and enabling of his destructive ways.

If you engage in anything other than vanilla and indifference you also are providing content as fuel to keep his PD raging. Don’t inadvertently facilitate this dysfunctional dynamic.

Drop the rope.

She is in an extremely coercively controlling relationship on every level. But for now she can’t see it. With you in the picture it allows him to distract her attention from him to you as the problem.

You have the most hideous of years. I suspect after having three DDs and two DGDs that this precious new life will be very important to you as a boy as you will maybe hope to get a glimpse of your late DH in him. That’s very potent.

It’s important that you have someone and somewhere to download all the crazy detailed stuff that their lives are embroiled in - because it’s crazy making being pushed and pulled emotionally in their dysfunctional world but it’s much more important that you don’t pay any attention to the detail or engage in anyway just observe the patterns and dynamics - eg no surprises they have fallen out with someone else, no surprises they were impulsive and didn’t do their homework, no surprises they reject and criticise and dictate my gifts, no surprises they are still stuck in “making amends”, no surprises they will tease and obfuscate around knowing when the baby is born and when you get to see him - ie when you have been run ragged and hurt sufficiently and deeply inflicted.

Or you could step back. Drop the rope and not get drawn in. Your DD1 needs to feel and see the full impact of him - you are inadvertently a buffer and distraction - once she is has experienced him enough and he starts on the DCs (which he will) she will seek your help. Now though you are inadvertently triangulated into facilitating this system.

It’s going to be really tough facing the second Christmas without your DH and going into another new year. Please look to actively emotionally protect and nourish yourself for this painful journey and wrap your in the calm and balm of enriching family and friends.

This is a fantastic post!

Hi OP, I have just read your other threads.

I was your dd many moons ago. Yes she defiantly is in an abusive relationship but she chooses to stay there. She will also repeat every thing you say to her back to LB such as ' you beg or chase' or when you are 'clearing the air'. She is the intermediary between you both. She tells him you wont beg or chase, she tells you your hamper is crap - most likely straight from his mouth.

She does have her part to play in this.

I was with a really controlling man for five years to the point I lost all my friends and family members - bar one - My grandmother. And I would have never been cruel to her because I loved her. Your dd does have issues with you herself.

Stop trying to clear the air.
Stop apologising.
Stop paying for stuff
In future ask them what they would like as gifts - if they want the price in money - send it to them.
And fuck the letter - its a really good thing you didnt because it would have been ripped apart and used as evidence on how awful you are.

Keep the door open so she can always come back but you will just have to let her go, this is a path she has to walk herself.

Op can I give you some advice from a sibling perspective to help you understand the impact this may have on your relationship with your other DDs? One of my brothers sounds very similar to your DD1. My DM (for understandable reasons) has tried for years to maintain a relationship with my brother. This has essentially boiled down to enormous financial support as he has lurched from one self inflicted catastrophe to another. He and wife no. 2 are clearly just taking the piss now. Initially me and other siblings supported mum and could see what she was trying to do. However it became so apparent that it was futile that one by one we've all gone NC. My mum hates this and will not respect why we have done this - she now constantly makes excuses for his increasingly bad behaviour. This has irretrievably damaged our relationship with her. Please be careful in trying to hold onto DD1 that you don't accidentally end up in the situation we are in. I was particularly struck by your comments about not telling your other DDs what is going on. I understand why you might think this is a good idea but your DDs are adults and clearly know things aren't right. You might feel better not trying to keep all this a secret. It could be construed by them as you passively defending DD1s awful behaviour.

I think you should keep the channels open with your DD1, I think she may need you greatly one day. You don’t have to have anything to do with SIL if it’s causing you or your daughter heartache. Your daughter is either blissfully happy with her husband and family and looks forward to her rural life in Ireland or she is being controlled and isolated by a man that sooner or later she will wise up to.

I am sorry for your losses and difficult times. I hope things improve soon x

Thank you, everyone.

SecretDoor, you are spot on in your suggestion that LB has paranoid tendencies. The reason they did not tell us about DGD1 for 14 months was that he was apparently terrified that if anything happened to DD1, I might try to abduct DGD1 somehow. He subscribes to multiple conspiracy theories, is adamantly anti-vaccine (as is DD), and this is one of the reasons they were so anxious to move to Ireland ASAP, in case admission might become impossible without a vaccine certificate.

fuzzwuss, I am making an effort to do things and keep up with friends, who have all been incredibly kind to me. I have recently joined one of the City livery companies, which organises lots of cultural events, and I had booked an indulgent train trip across Africa, which has now been postponed, for obvious reasons!

Dilly, you are totally right in your assumption that the house is in poor condition and in a remote location. I think that they had believed that they would qualify for lots of EU grants (despite voting for Brexit), but are already finding that it is not so easy. I suspect that they will find it extremely difficult to make the small holding pay, and they can't even begin to set it up until they have sorted out the problems with the Forestry and the title and obtained their licences and flock number. They are already complaining about the cost of things in Ireland and brought back a van filled with rubbish as they would have to pay for disposal in Ireland. They are taking back tins of paint etc, which are apparently much cheaper in the UK. But I suspect that it all needs rather more than a lick of paint.

ESGdance - what a brilliant, brilliant, eloquent post. You have absolutely 'nailed it' - could you perchance be the inimitable Gutterton? Thank you for your advice, I am very grateful!!

Mother - you are totally right regarding DD. She has no filter and will repeat everything I say to LB, who will use it as evidence against me, where possible.

Terrible Zebra, you make excellent points. I am not concealing anything from my other DDs, all that has happened is that DD has not sounded that enthusiastic about our visiting the new baby. I will say this I if they ask, but I don't want to escalate the situation unnecessarily, as it may just calm down. But I totally take your point about not allowing my other relationships to be damaged.

@Chopinandchampagne yes that’s me - and a few other name changes along the way.

I do think that despite this latest reversal you are showing lots of resilience and insight. It’s not surprising that you are shocked about the recent dramatic change in her tone after things had been going so well. They had. But that’s when LB decides you are getting too close and he slams down the shutters.

It’s great that your DD2’s health is better and she is moving close to you. Be careful what you tell DD1 because if she suspects that your other DDs have any financial advantage over her - she will be out with the begging bowl.

Give her zero info. I liked PP approach about “future proofing” - both the relationship and finances - save money for DGC/DD1 for a time when she is cleanly divorced. Be aware that LB is agitating you both into a fight - don’t fall into that trap. Just be detached and decide how much vanilla/breadcrumbs relationship is tolerable to you just to keep the door open. Because the relationship you have now with her is not authentic - it is polluted and scrutinised and controlled by him.

You don’t need to understand him - he’s nuts - you just need to not to be the moth to the flame xxxx

@Motheroftigers

Hi OP, I have just read your other threads.

I was your dd many moons ago. Yes she defiantly is in an abusive relationship but she chooses to stay there. She will also repeat every thing you say to her back to LB such as ' you beg or chase' or when you are 'clearing the air'. She is the intermediary between you both. She tells him you wont beg or chase, she tells you your hamper is crap - most likely straight from his mouth.

She does have her part to play in this.

I was with a really controlling man for five years to the point I lost all my friends and family members - bar one - My grandmother. And I would have never been cruel to her because I loved her. Your dd does have issues with you herself.

Stop trying to clear the air.
Stop apologising.
Stop paying for stuff
In future ask them what they would like as gifts - if they want the price in money - send it to them.
And fuck the letter - its a really good thing you didnt because it would have been ripped apart and used as evidence on how awful you are.

Keep the door open so she can always come back but you will just have to let her go, this is a path she has to walk herself.

I agree with this. I was in an abusive marriage myself and it did cause some issues with family and friends but I never turned on those I love/ that stuck by me in this way. He is clearly abusive but she is treating you abusively too. She clearly wants to hurt you for her own reasons. I have followed your previous posts and you have suffered so much loss between your husband’s death and the situation with DD and SIL. You deserve more than this. The pain is so clear in every one of your posts. Focus on other things for 2022, and the love of your other two daughter’s who sound such lovely young women. It is sad to see how many hoops you jump through for DD1 and then how dreadfully she behaves in return. I hope she comes round in time, but in the meantime she seems to cause you nothing but pain

@PyongyangKipperbang

He is abusive and she hasnt cottoned on yet. But your tiptoeing isnt helping because it is actually confirming to her that she should do what he wants as thats ok.

Standing up and saying "You know what? This isnt ok. What he demands isnt ok and I will no longer accept it. I have only done it this long because I love and am worried about you. I will always be here for you and the door will always be open. Ask for help and it will be given. " And then distance.

She will come back, it may take a while but she will.

I agree with this. I think of you now and again OP, I didn’t see your thread this Spring, and I am so sorry to read that your lovely husband has died. I might be pottering around my garden and the Lobster comes into my mind and I feel a cold horror. I have two daughters and I do fear them meeting a man like this. He is evil I think. One thing struck me as odd, the vegan turned into Quail killer and puppy farmer, the anti vax and a right wing views so at odds with her family - your dd seems to shift in her opinions depending on who she is with, she seems very lacking in critical thought or any strong sense of self ? This will have made her very easy to manipulate. It really is like a cult. I think with people very wobbly in their sense of self, keeping your own self authentic is really important. That is why I feel being straightforward is a better long term strategy than pussy footing about.

I followed all your previous threads and am so sorry, although not really surprised, to read that things still haven't really been resolved.

I agree with everyone else that says you need to step right back now as you are inadvertently fuelling the situation. LB uses you as a distraction, so your DD can believe that you are the problem and you are doing everything wrong.

However, I think before you step back you should tell your DD exactly how you really feel. Tell her everything. Tell her how worried about her and scared for her you are. How that extends to your grandchildren. How precarious this "new life" life in Ireland is. How awful LB is. How terribly she has behaved and how hurt you have been. That the money tap is now turned (tightly) off. That you simply have to step back to protect yourself and your mental health. Then tell her that despite all of that, you love her more than she'll ever know. That you'll always love her and the grandchildren. That you'll be there for her when she needs you, when she's ready to leave the toxic relationship she's been entrenched in for so long. That she can call on you then and you will help her. Tell her all that and then walk away because honestly nothing you do right now will make any difference.

Indeed excellent post from @ESGdance

However, I also agree with @Motheroftigers, I think it would be a mistake to whitewash your daughter of her responsibility.

She is not a particularly nice young woman and there definitely appears to be some part of her that is getting a kick from making you dance to her tune.

Step back and leave her to feel the full force of her choices with this awful man.

You can't help her until, until she wants to help herself and own HER choices.

Stop giving her money and information.

I think grey rocking her is the way to go.

Let her see you accepting her choices, wish her the best, and let her see you busy getting on with your life.

Stop allowing them to control you.

Yes that’s exactly what I meant about the twitch upon the thread, it makes you dance to her tune. she may not even consciously realise she’s doing it, but she sure knows instinctively how to hoooooooover up all your headspace.

You are really kind and generous to all your kids, but you must remember that most of us are all surviving without investments and inheritances and kegs of whiskey etc and doing fine - not that you shouldn’t do these things at all, it simply seems you sometimes feel you’re neglectful if you don’t do them, but: she’s married, she has three kids, been given love support and money. It’s now time for them to be the adults they are.

LOTS of children would be rolling up now to pay for YOU, and take YOU out for lunch or on holiday, or buy you thoughtful stuff given the year you’ve had. You maybe need to reframe your belief of your obligations.