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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't think I will be allowed to see my new grandchild.

1000 replies

Chopinandchampagne · 13/12/2021 00:27

Some of you may remember my previous threads regarding my relationship with my daughter and SIL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4145356-SIL-and-money-issues?msgid=109152806#109152806

It has been a difficult year, following the death of DH, with lots of firsts to get through, but I have just about survived, with a lot of support from DD2 and DD3, DH's family and friends. And, earlier in the year, DD1 told me she was expecting DGS1 in early January. This time she told me very shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, and was clearly thrilled saying that 'new life' was coming after DH's death. She was delighted to find out that the baby is a boy, as SIL particularly wanted a son, after two daughters.

I had thought that, if there were any positives from DH's death - and it is hard to think of any, as I loved him so much - the family might be reconciled and healed. And I was very happy to hear about the baby, although a bit concerned, given the two previous emergency C sections (although I kept my concerns to myself).

DD1 has now moved to Ireland, having purchased a small holding with her inheritance from DH's aunt, as DH drafted his aunt's will so that his share would go to his DC if he were to predecease her. DD1 had sent me photos of the new property, says how much they love it over there, it feels 'so right' etc. They went for about a month and have now returned to the UK for the birth. I thought all was fine with my relationship with DD1, we were having natural conversations, FaceTimes with DGD1 and DGD2, ending conversations with 'I love you; etc.

I had enjoyed picking out some Christmas presents, which I thought they would enjoy. With the DGDs, I have sent presents which I knew they would appreciate, for DD1 some cashmere hat, gloves, scarf etc, and socks for baby, as I know it will be cold on the small holding, but also a food hamper, chocolates and candles sent jointly to DD1 and SIL, saying with love from Mum etc.

I spoke to DD1 on Friday and I could tell that there was something wrong, as she seemed more tense, less relaxed. She started by saying that she thought I should claim a refund for the hamper, that I had wasted my money, as the ham was too dry and not as good as supermarket ham. I thanked her for letting me know and said I would do so. She said the chocolates had too many additives, so they couldn't eat them (I had chosen dairy and soy free ones, as DGD1 had an allergy to dairy), so I said fine, just regift or donate them. They are generally happy with the DGC's toys, although I shouldn't send anything else. I said I understood, and was conscious that they wouldn't want too much stuff to take back to Ireland.

Then I asked her about how she was feeling and how the 36 week scan had gone. It seems that the baby is small (10th percentile), although appears healthy, but she is very worried about the birth, which is understandable, given the history. She wants a natural birth and is terrified of intervention. She thinks some of the medical staff are horrible and referred to one who asked her last time if she wanted a dead baby on her conscience, after she refused medical advice to have an elective C section. I made reassuring comments. She also said that she might not tell anyone when she went into labour as she didn't want to worry anyone, such as SIL's grandparents (last time she sent me messages before the birth and we spoke afterwards).

We then had a discussion about Ireland. They have run into some problems to do with the Forestry/Agricultural Commission which are preventing them from obtaining a felling licence and flock number, which they need to purchase animals. It seems that not all of the land has been conveyed to them and they have fallen out with the solicitor, whom they feel has been negligent. SIL spent a long time composing a letter and was angry when he only received a brief reply from the solicitor.

Anyway, after all that, I said that I and her sisters were looking forward to seeing the baby, especially after not seeing DGD1 as a baby, and DGD2 because of lockdown. She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said 'SIL is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'. She said that I had tried to make her feel guilty over her treatment of DH and that she didn't feel guilty. She repeated this and then said that I had said that I was going to write SIL a letter in the summer and that it might now be too late. I was genuinely taken aback by this.

For context, before I visited in the summer, we had a heated conversation where I said that she had hurt DH (and me) by not telling him about the birth of DGD1 for 14 months or her marriage and by moving without telling us. I admit I was angry as I felt that DH had been cheated of precious time with his granddaughter, although I said that I knew she hadn't known that he was going to die. I said that I thought that she had been emotionally abusive in 'ghosting' us and I didn't want to form an attachment to my DGCs if there was a risk of it happening again. It would just be too painful. It made me afraid of loving them as I would wish to. DD1 had referred then to the incident, some years before, where I had made SIL leave my house (they weren't married then), as I felt he was bullying her. I said that it was all a long time ago and that 'Dad didn't do anything wrong, did he?', to which she replied 'No'. She said that SIL had told her not to be in contact.

I subsequently said, in another conversation, that I had been angry, but that I wasn't any longer, and that it would be nice if we could go out to lunch together, just the two of us, when I visited, and to start rebuilding our relationship. I duly visited, had what I thought was a very pleasant day with the family at a local attraction, then lunch with DD1 then next day. I said I thought that the previous day had gone well and she said that SIL had told her that he did not want me to visit too often (this was the first time I had visited since DH's funeral). I said that I was sorry to hear this and was there some way of resolving matters; that the 'incident' was all a long time ago, that it was time to move on, and that DH's death put disagreements into context. She said maybe I should say that to SIL and it was him I should be taking out or talking to. I said I would be happy to talk to him, but I doubted that he would want to go out with me, maybe I should write him a letter. So I floated the idea of a letter in a private conversation with DD1, but did not say that I was definitely going to write one and, upon reflection, I thought that it might be too much of a hostage to fortune.

During this lunch, which was mostly pleasant, and focusing on neutral topics, DD1 repeated again that she had cut us off because SIL had told her to, that she had had to choose and would always choose SIL. I said that I had made SIL leave my house on that occasion because I was trying to protect her, especially given her previous abusive relationship. She said she had not told SIL about this ie the previous relationship and she was not sure if she would behave in the same way as I did. She said she appreciated that I did not know that she would marry SIL at the time. I said that I understood that, in the final analysis, she would and should put her family first, but I thought she should also have some loyalty to her original family. After that, we returned to everyday topics and I thought we had both had a pleasant lunch, 'cleared the air', and that we were moving forward in rebuilding our relationship. However, it seems I was wrong.

When we returned to the house after lunch (for me to call a taxi back to the hotel), SIL went off to his workshop without speaking to me or saying goodbye. I went to the workshop and said goodbye and gave him a hug. I found it a gruelling trip without DH but went away thinking it had gone well.

Anyway, back to the present, I was blindsided by DD1's comments in the conversation to the effect that I should have written a letter and that it might be 'too late'. I said what did she think I should say in the letter. I said that it was all so long ago, that I had apologised to SIL, that we had met since then at DD1's 21st, that he had said we were 'ok'.DD1 said she didn't want anything that would upset her after the birth. I said that I would never do anything to upset her after the birth. I said that I was nice to SIL, praised him for his DIY skills and as a father, that I behaved in a civilised fashion, sent him cards and gifts, what more could I do, I couldn't make him like me. At this stage DD1 was clearly agitated and said she had to go and that she would speak to me another time. I said 'Alright darling, good bye'.

So I feel both devastated and empty at the same time. I had thought, after the most hellish two years, when I had to watch my beloved DH die and then lose his aunt, whom I was close to. When, more recently, my MIL nearly died, my sister in law has had major surgery, and I have lost one of my closest friends (the funeral is this week), I had thought that I had just about survived. I keep giving myself a talking to, saying come on, just one more step forward, nearly there, nearly the end of the year. And now this.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I would be grateful for any advice as to how handle the situation. Part of just feels like giving up, but I obviously don't want to lose DD1 again, and I am worried about the birth of DGS and would have wanted to be a support, not an aggravating factor.

OP posts:
NoSquirrels · 13/12/2021 09:47

You need to stop allowing SIL to control you by stealth via your DD.

It doesn’t matter if he doesn’t approve of your gifts.

It doesn’t matter if he wanted you to write a letter (I’m glad you didn’t).

Ultimately, although terrifically painful, it doesn’t matter if he won’t let you visit the new baby.

Your DD has chosen. She’s in an abusive relationship - and is complicit in abusing you too, even if she doesn’t realise it - and you have to accept that. You can’t save her, you can’t improve her life while she’s with him. Only she can decide.

All you can possibly do in this scenario is let your DD know you always love her and will always be ready for her when she’s ready for you. But stop being manipulated, dancing to their tune, being controlled through access and arbitrary rules and what you ‘should’ have done.

Remain supportive and loving from a distance. Send whatever gifts you like, let her know the door is always open to visit you, offer to visit but resolve not to be hurt if you’re refused or SIL or DD behave badly.

One day I hope she’ll leave him and be grateful for you. But right now she’s enmeshed in a situation of her own making and you cannot either undo it or fathom it so you must stop trying. It’s not your responsibility.

Your responsibility is to hold room in your heart for her and your grandchildren for when they need it. In the meantime detach from the day-to-day dramas and petty micro aggressions.

No more contact with SIL at all. Don’t call him or write to him or any of that. It will never ever ever help you.

CharityDingle · 13/12/2021 09:49

Lovely news about your DD2!

Crazycrazylady · 13/12/2021 09:50

Honestly Op,
You are never going to have the relationship you want with your DD1, She sounds totally infatuated with her husband and selfish to boot, you need to concentrate on the 2 daughters that do want a relationship with you and on building a new life for yourself.
This constantly pandering to her will ultimately drive you mad,
Maybe one day she will come around and see things as they really are but until that day, you need to step back and concentrate on living your best life and I'm afraid that doesn't include her and SIL.

Chopinandchampagne · 13/12/2021 09:59

billy1966, I agree that I need to let DD1 live her life, even if it turns out to be difficult. Some posters have commented that she must be unhappy. I honestly don't know. She nearly always puts a positive spin on things when speaking to me but, by reading between the lines, I am not sure all is quite as wonderful as she makes out. She keeps telling me how lovely it is, almost as though she expects me to contradict her, but I just say that's marvellous, I am so pleased that you are happy.

She always said how much she liked living in the previous house, which they still own and where they are staying now, until they were leaving, when she complained about it. For example, she said that it was good that the new house had a concrete area for the DGDs to play, as she was always having to clean the lawn at the other house, because of the four dogs. You really think that LB would undertake this task, wouldn't you, given that she is pregnant.

It is almost as though they constantly have to have a new project on the go, to focus their energies on, whether it be a house or a baby or whatever, to distract them. She said how miserable they were, with nothing to do, before they moved, 'couldn't stand it', to use her words. They were going to buy a property, at way over the asking price, without seeing it and with no intention of carrying out a survey or searches. My suggestions in this regard were dismissed out of hand as 'Oh mum, we are not like that, we don't do things that way'. Eventually, the solicitor and estate agent virtually insisted that they view it, so they drove over, a very long way, slept in the van overnight, and inspected the original property. They found that it was a wreck, the land was just a bog, it was very overpriced, and there were rights of way to cut peat from the land. They therefore viewed a few other properties and then paid well over the asking price for the one they now have.

I had suggested, very gently, that it might be better to wait until after the birth, sell their existing property (plus they have another house which they rent out), so they would have more funds, and that they could go over and explore different areas. But it was as though they were desperate to move, at any cost. I was a bit concerned, as DD told me that the property had previously been under offer, but that the purchaser had withdrawn. I offered to pay for a survey for them, as a house warming gift, just to make sure that everything was ok and the heating working etc, but this offer was rejected as 'LB wouldn't allow us to live there if it wasn't safe'. I hesitated long and hard before making the offer and talked it through with my therapist, but I felt I had to make the offer even if it were rejected. I know that you should never try to interfere in your DC's affairs, but DD doesn't seem to exercise any independent judgment any more, and this was her legacy she was spending, arising from the deaths of DH and his aunt.

I have decided not to contact her apart from sending a good wishes message to the family at Christmas. I did say to her, when I visited with DH, before he died, the first time we had met either of the DGDs, that I wanted to love them and have a relationship with them but 'I will not chase, and I will not beg', to which she replied that I shouldn't have to, but it seems that things have regressed since then.

OP posts:
GooseberryJam · 13/12/2021 10:00

I've read your previous threads OP and I am sorry they are continuing to hurt you (and it's a choice they make). I hope you can get some comfort from the fact we can feel your sadness so strongly and wish we could help. I wish I could give you a big hug. I know the pain is overwhelming.

Saying that, though, the tide will recede and you will cope. I have lost loved ones in the last few years and it is so painful but they would want you to go on and to look for the enjoyment in life without them. You've posted before about how your DH would want the family to be reconciled, and I'm sure he would, but he would want you to feel ok and loved and not ill treated even more than that. Please think of that and turn to the positive and loving people around you. You are more than DD1's mum, even though you'll never stop loving her or being her mum. You still have time to find pleasure in life even with the huge loss of your DH. He would want that.

I also think the cat that sleeps on your feet at night is your cat now and should stay with you Wink

Restart10 · 13/12/2021 10:00

Op you need to leave them alone and slowly cut them off to an extent where they don't affect you in this way. They are both truly awful people, and you are understandably in denial over this. I think your DD is the worst of the two as she is your daughter and treating you this way. They obviously enjoy you pandering to them and begging to be a part of their lives. She sounds like such an ungrateful thing moaning about the hamper when a thanks was fine. She obviously said that to hurt you, I think she is vile sorry. Just take many, many steps back and leave them to their lives.

Abouttoblow · 13/12/2021 10:01

I've read your previous threads and I feel you have done more than enough to try to heal the relationship with your daughter. I think it's time step back and enjoy your life with your other 2 daughters.

Derbee · 13/12/2021 10:04

@PyongyangKipperbang

He is abusive and she hasnt cottoned on yet. But your tiptoeing isnt helping because it is actually confirming to her that she should do what he wants as thats ok.

Standing up and saying "You know what? This isnt ok. What he demands isnt ok and I will no longer accept it. I have only done it this long because I love and am worried about you. I will always be here for you and the door will always be open. Ask for help and it will be given. " And then distance.

She will come back, it may take a while but she will.

I agree. You need to let your daughter know that you will always be there, but you cannot and will not pander to her abusive and controlling relationship
GooseberryJam · 13/12/2021 10:12

Sounds like a poor purchase they'll live to regret. Or that she will. So that has used up DD1's inheritance from both her dad and her aunt? No wonder LB is flexing at the moment. He is triumphant that he's taken his 'rightful' Hmm spoils from you. Though because of the person he is - and the site they've purchased - at some point point that'll wear off and they'll be looking for money again. Be ready for that. I think your position should be that they've had their inheritance and that's it now. No more lump sums. You have to be fair to your other daughters and you've given them so much already.

Are they taking the dogs to Ireland? I wonder how they'll cope without LB's parents nearby to help, too. All this is for them to deal with, though.

HollowTalk · 13/12/2021 10:16

The simple reason your gifts were criticised is because they weren't cash. All they want from you is money and whatever you give them will never be enough. The entitlement of LB in particular is shocking. Your daughter has learned that if she brings in money for him, he'll like her more. He has learned that you have more money than you give him and he can't cope with that. He wants everything.

I wonder, too, about her giving birth in the UK and not in Ireland. What would be the reasoning behind that? Medical care isn't free in Ireland, is it? Could that be behind it? God help the person who tries to get money out of LB.

I know it's hard but I think you really mustn't make any more financial offers. Have a set figure for birthdays and Christmas and that should be your limit. If you have money that you would normally give them (eg if your premium bonds came up trumps and you were splitting the money between all three children) then put it in a separate savings account for the grandchildren.

NoSquirrels · 13/12/2021 10:16

The more you try to look after her, or look out for her, or offer advice or practical assistance, the more your SIL’s position is threatened.

I understand why you felt you should - to see them squander that money feels incredibly uncomfortable and disappointing and bound up with grief too. But you cannot control it or affect it and anything you try will make it worse, unfortunately. The normal rules don’t apply.

Flowers
ThumbWitchesAbroad · 13/12/2021 10:33

Unlike others, I haven't read all of your previous threads - but I'm gleaning from other posters that this isn't unheard of from your DD and son-in-law.

Your Son-IL sounds like a bit of a sod - and if your DD is under his spell, or just going along with him, then either way she's not going to break free of his hold at this stage.

I agree with those saying "detach" - for now, but leave the door open for her so she understands you will always be there if she needs you.

As far as Ireland/new DGS etc go, I think you are just going to have to accept that you're not going to have much to do with him at this stage, which is very sad, I know - but you can't push it, or they'll just close down on you completely.

Very sad for you.

Keepitrealnomists · 13/12/2021 10:36

OP, you sound like a lovely mum. I would love to have a mum like you 💐 All you can do is let her know that your there for her and the children and take a step back. Do not give them anymore money and let them get on with the life they have chosen.

diddl · 13/12/2021 10:41

It's very complicated & hard to understand when an abusive relationship is involved.

Often that means treating someone just well enough to keep them holding on.

I can't see how keeping your first baby a secret from your parents for 14 months fits into that at all!

That is so extreme it does make me wonder how much agreement there is from your daughter about how badly you are treated.

Dillydilly01 · 13/12/2021 10:44

@HollowTalk

The simple reason your gifts were criticised is because they weren't cash. All they want from you is money and whatever you give them will never be enough. The entitlement of LB in particular is shocking. Your daughter has learned that if she brings in money for him, he'll like her more. He has learned that you have more money than you give him and he can't cope with that. He wants everything.

I wonder, too, about her giving birth in the UK and not in Ireland. What would be the reasoning behind that? Medical care isn't free in Ireland, is it? Could that be behind it? God help the person who tries to get money out of LB.

I know it's hard but I think you really mustn't make any more financial offers. Have a set figure for birthdays and Christmas and that should be your limit. If you have money that you would normally give them (eg if your premium bonds came up trumps and you were splitting the money between all three children) then put it in a separate savings account for the grandchildren.

'HollowTalk's first paragraph seems to be spot on.

This whole Irish relocation will end up a financial disaster, it sounds idyllic moving to some remote spot - it won't be long before the calls come about cost of this or that, hard to battle through regulations, works needed to house to make your grandchildren comfortable, etc - you will need to ignore these requests or you will end up in dire straits financially yourself before long. Along with the calls for money will be the lure of invitations to visit to see the kids, etc.

It is so sad and difficult but for your own well being, you need to step back and go low contact with your daughter and try to stop the tip-toeing around them and having to explain your actions and thoughts.

Who do they think they are - wanting you to beg to see your grandchildren, apologising and grovelling to your son-in-law and making you feel grateful for any crumb of kindness from them.

Email your daughter every six weeks or so, being breezy and cheery about your own life, few sentences asking after your grandchildren - no asking for photos or anything. Offer no advice or get dragged into any drama. If she responds saying you're being cold or remote - just ignore and don't offer up explanations.

It's an awful phrase but your relationship with this pair is 'what it is' and certainly, while your son in law is in the frame, there will be no change to the relationship I led you stand way back from it.

Look after yourself.

MultiStorey · 13/12/2021 11:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Triffid1 · 13/12/2021 11:11

I have also read previous threads. There is no doubt that your daughter's behaviour is heavily impacted by a man who is very controlling. And I 100% appreciate that as a parent, that is incredibly difficult and frustrating. We have a similar situation with SIL and it KILLS me.

However, I think attempting to be rational and make gentle/sensible/kind suggestions is just not going to help. So either you need to withdraw somewhat and let them get on with it or you need to bend to what they want, write the letter, grovel to son in law etc in order to maintain a relationship. Whichever you choose is up to you, but your DD cannot be rational while she's in this situation so you attempting to make rational arguments is not going to work and just inflame the situation further.

You use language like, "I gently suggested" etc and I 100% understand where you're coming from, but I can confidently say that your DD sees it as patronising and judgemental. The truth is that you ARE judgemental. For good reason, in my opinion, but she is not going to see that.

AryaStarkWolf · 13/12/2021 11:11

The hamper stuff is just ungrateful and very rude, I know she's your daughter and has your grand children but I think you need to back away from her, she doesn't sound like a very nice person

Billybagpuss · 13/12/2021 11:13

I have decided not to contact her apart from sending a good wishes message to the family at Christmas. I did say to her, when I visited with DH, before he died, the first time we had met either of the DGDs, that I wanted to love them and have a relationship with them but 'I will not chase, and I will not beg', to which she replied that I shouldn't have to, but it seems that things have regressed since then

I think this is the right course of action, is she still sending regular videos etc?

It may be necessary to reiterate the I love you, I'm always here for you but I won't chase scenario. She knows what she's doing and its clear LB is starting to assert his authority again, its a shame as I remember that she gave the impression she wouldn't cut you off again but it does seem to have regressed a lot since the summer.

So pleased DD2 is well now and the house sounds exciting.

Twillow · 13/12/2021 11:13

@mathanxiety

I don't think your daughter is behaving like a spoiled child. I think she is behaving like someone who is under a huge amount of pressure from an abusive partner.

It sounds to me as if your daughter has found herself a second abusive relationship, and that this husband of hers has taken her off to Ireland to keep you and your daughter apart and isolate her from any friends or support she might have closer to home. He is creating drama, and asking her to choose between him and you.

If I were you, I would try to keep lines of communication open, and do a lot of careful listening. I would stop mentioning how hard you find her distance and the cold shoulder she is giving you. I think this is a story of a young woman being abused but not able to find a way out.

Sympathise with her as she worries about the upcoming birth, as her anxiety around healthcare could be related to general anxiety about her relationship and lack of trust in the world outside her relationship. She sounds terribly unhappy.

I have posted on this thread if anyone wants to see my perspective as I have been in the position of DD1. I 100% agree with the above.

A lot of people are slagging off the daughter not just the SIL, but it seems to me DD1 does want a relationship and enjoys talking to her mum when she is relaxed, but is also very torn between loyalty to SIL and stressed by the tensions with mum which are undoubtably caused by him.

My advice has been to stop focusing on the toxicity of the dynamic, which there is nothing the mum can do about except to stop feeding it and which is clearly helping no-one in the situation. Cutting them off is equally hurtful to the mother and daughter and only feeds into SIL's narrative.

Focus on the good things only. If conversations on the phone get tricky or emotional, have an excuse ready "Oh darling there's a delivery driver here - I'll have to let you get on with your day. Remember I love you"

When my mum tried to ask questions about my relationship, which was sometimes hideous and physically/emotionally abusive but not always, I did not want to distress her but there was also some stubborn pride and loyalty to my partner which made me completely unable to be open at all about the difficulties. Like DD1 I would instead complain about little domestic things that were a nuisance, or how hard work was being. When I finally left, I reached out and she picked up all the pieces for me, was an utter rock. We never looked back and had a very close relationship after that.

I also understand from DD1's point of view the behaviour about gifts. SIL will find fault and that causes stress for DD! which she vents to mum by complaining about certain issues with them. She will not feel good about this I am certain, it is a vent and mum should try to have a thick skin. Maybe a conversation about I don't want to send gifts that aren't suitable but I so love choosing things for you, can you give me a wish list darling?

I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone in this dynamic but I do feel I understand where everyone is coming from, from my own experience. SO much pain.

Twillow · 13/12/2021 11:16

@MultiStorey

Firstly, I’m so sorry that your husband has died and you are in this difficult & I know long running position.

I think it would be such a shame to cut yourself off from your daughter and grandchildren.
It does seem that your daughter is in a difficult or even abusive relationship so your best course of action is to support her without making further demands on her and making her life more difficult until she is able to free herself.

When I read your OP, I get a feeling of you needing everything to be OK, but it isn’t clear to me whether it is anxiety driving this, or something else. I personally find some of the conversations you describe as manipulative/drama-llama, and I am not surprised that they are then weaponised against you.

In terms of specifics: The whole thing with the forestry/solicitor- just make vaguely supportive noises. The fact SIL wrote a long letter to the solicitor and is mad he got a short one back shows he’s a nut job. Your replies should be head nodding/”yes that sounds frustrating”/”hopefully it will all get resolved now”. Absolutely no advice or specific comments unless asked, and even then acknowledge “I don’t know the detail, and not an expert”.

With the relationship can you call/FaceTime at a similar time each week (hard with small kids I know) so you have a pattern of touching base, being supportive. If your daughter complains ask explicitly if there is something she wants you to do, or just to listen. Reassure her that you love her and trust her to make the best decisions for her and her children and that you are there for her in whatever way she needs.

With everything else that has happened in the drama- don’t mention it, don’t escalate it; don’t reference it; do not dig it up for another round of mud-slinging. Also don’t triangulate with her siblings.

Play the long game here but play smart

Good advice here.
OrangeBlossomsinthesun · 13/12/2021 11:21

Email your daughter every six weeks or so, being breezy and cheery about your own life, few sentences asking after your grandchildren - no asking for photos or anything. Offer no advice or get dragged into any drama. If she responds saying you're being cold or remote - just ignore and don't offer up explanations. This is the only way. The demands for money will never stop. The children will be dangled as enticement. The only way is to withdraw or they will destroy you.
It doesn't really matter at this stage why your DD is going along with it, the fact is that she is and you can't do anything about that. So you need to protect yourself by withdrawing.

Alieninmybody · 13/12/2021 11:22

I've read your previous threads too but never responded as your course of action seemed to be right under the circumstances.
I think you've tried everything you can with good grace. It's clear your son in law is using coercive control on your dd and nothing you do to try and keep an even equilibrium will every work.
You need to pull back, your daughter is now using coercive control on you and if you don't pull back this will be your life forever,
Jumping through hoops that get smaller and higher each time.

At this stage I would be telling her that you're there for her when she needs you and she and her children are welcome back at any time but you can no longer pretend you don't see how she is either been controlled or does not want a relationship with you.
Leave the ball in her court and move on with the people who love and respect you back.

Calmdown14 · 13/12/2021 11:24

What a difficult situation. You sound like a lovely mother.
It's probably been said but what jumps out from your posts is the what might have been if things were different.
But they are not different and what has gone before can never be undone. You've worked through it with your therapist but now it is time to look at what you do have within the realistic constraints.
Continue to be there, to reinforce that you love her but accept that for as long as LB has this level of control your relationship will not be as you hope.
You need to treat what you do now as future proofing. Keeping the door and communication open and cordial. The more you push the more he pushes back.
One day your grandaughters will have their own thoughts. One day you may get a better relationship with them all. Until that day you are just keeping the bridge up.
Your other daughters sound like this is their approach

Lovelymincepies · 13/12/2021 11:28

Stop apologising to them. Their behaviour is appalling towards you.

Take a step back. Tell your daughter that your door is always open, that you deem that nothing you do will ever be okay and you need to look after your own MH now.

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