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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't think I will be allowed to see my new grandchild.

1000 replies

Chopinandchampagne · 13/12/2021 00:27

Some of you may remember my previous threads regarding my relationship with my daughter and SIL.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4145356-SIL-and-money-issues?msgid=109152806#109152806

It has been a difficult year, following the death of DH, with lots of firsts to get through, but I have just about survived, with a lot of support from DD2 and DD3, DH's family and friends. And, earlier in the year, DD1 told me she was expecting DGS1 in early January. This time she told me very shortly after the pregnancy was confirmed, and was clearly thrilled saying that 'new life' was coming after DH's death. She was delighted to find out that the baby is a boy, as SIL particularly wanted a son, after two daughters.

I had thought that, if there were any positives from DH's death - and it is hard to think of any, as I loved him so much - the family might be reconciled and healed. And I was very happy to hear about the baby, although a bit concerned, given the two previous emergency C sections (although I kept my concerns to myself).

DD1 has now moved to Ireland, having purchased a small holding with her inheritance from DH's aunt, as DH drafted his aunt's will so that his share would go to his DC if he were to predecease her. DD1 had sent me photos of the new property, says how much they love it over there, it feels 'so right' etc. They went for about a month and have now returned to the UK for the birth. I thought all was fine with my relationship with DD1, we were having natural conversations, FaceTimes with DGD1 and DGD2, ending conversations with 'I love you; etc.

I had enjoyed picking out some Christmas presents, which I thought they would enjoy. With the DGDs, I have sent presents which I knew they would appreciate, for DD1 some cashmere hat, gloves, scarf etc, and socks for baby, as I know it will be cold on the small holding, but also a food hamper, chocolates and candles sent jointly to DD1 and SIL, saying with love from Mum etc.

I spoke to DD1 on Friday and I could tell that there was something wrong, as she seemed more tense, less relaxed. She started by saying that she thought I should claim a refund for the hamper, that I had wasted my money, as the ham was too dry and not as good as supermarket ham. I thanked her for letting me know and said I would do so. She said the chocolates had too many additives, so they couldn't eat them (I had chosen dairy and soy free ones, as DGD1 had an allergy to dairy), so I said fine, just regift or donate them. They are generally happy with the DGC's toys, although I shouldn't send anything else. I said I understood, and was conscious that they wouldn't want too much stuff to take back to Ireland.

Then I asked her about how she was feeling and how the 36 week scan had gone. It seems that the baby is small (10th percentile), although appears healthy, but she is very worried about the birth, which is understandable, given the history. She wants a natural birth and is terrified of intervention. She thinks some of the medical staff are horrible and referred to one who asked her last time if she wanted a dead baby on her conscience, after she refused medical advice to have an elective C section. I made reassuring comments. She also said that she might not tell anyone when she went into labour as she didn't want to worry anyone, such as SIL's grandparents (last time she sent me messages before the birth and we spoke afterwards).

We then had a discussion about Ireland. They have run into some problems to do with the Forestry/Agricultural Commission which are preventing them from obtaining a felling licence and flock number, which they need to purchase animals. It seems that not all of the land has been conveyed to them and they have fallen out with the solicitor, whom they feel has been negligent. SIL spent a long time composing a letter and was angry when he only received a brief reply from the solicitor.

Anyway, after all that, I said that I and her sisters were looking forward to seeing the baby, especially after not seeing DGD1 as a baby, and DGD2 because of lockdown. She went a bit quiet and was non committal just saying Mmm, we'll see, I need to have the baby first. I pressed the point and she said 'SIL is my husband'. I said 'Yes, I know'. She said that I had tried to make her feel guilty over her treatment of DH and that she didn't feel guilty. She repeated this and then said that I had said that I was going to write SIL a letter in the summer and that it might now be too late. I was genuinely taken aback by this.

For context, before I visited in the summer, we had a heated conversation where I said that she had hurt DH (and me) by not telling him about the birth of DGD1 for 14 months or her marriage and by moving without telling us. I admit I was angry as I felt that DH had been cheated of precious time with his granddaughter, although I said that I knew she hadn't known that he was going to die. I said that I thought that she had been emotionally abusive in 'ghosting' us and I didn't want to form an attachment to my DGCs if there was a risk of it happening again. It would just be too painful. It made me afraid of loving them as I would wish to. DD1 had referred then to the incident, some years before, where I had made SIL leave my house (they weren't married then), as I felt he was bullying her. I said that it was all a long time ago and that 'Dad didn't do anything wrong, did he?', to which she replied 'No'. She said that SIL had told her not to be in contact.

I subsequently said, in another conversation, that I had been angry, but that I wasn't any longer, and that it would be nice if we could go out to lunch together, just the two of us, when I visited, and to start rebuilding our relationship. I duly visited, had what I thought was a very pleasant day with the family at a local attraction, then lunch with DD1 then next day. I said I thought that the previous day had gone well and she said that SIL had told her that he did not want me to visit too often (this was the first time I had visited since DH's funeral). I said that I was sorry to hear this and was there some way of resolving matters; that the 'incident' was all a long time ago, that it was time to move on, and that DH's death put disagreements into context. She said maybe I should say that to SIL and it was him I should be taking out or talking to. I said I would be happy to talk to him, but I doubted that he would want to go out with me, maybe I should write him a letter. So I floated the idea of a letter in a private conversation with DD1, but did not say that I was definitely going to write one and, upon reflection, I thought that it might be too much of a hostage to fortune.

During this lunch, which was mostly pleasant, and focusing on neutral topics, DD1 repeated again that she had cut us off because SIL had told her to, that she had had to choose and would always choose SIL. I said that I had made SIL leave my house on that occasion because I was trying to protect her, especially given her previous abusive relationship. She said she had not told SIL about this ie the previous relationship and she was not sure if she would behave in the same way as I did. She said she appreciated that I did not know that she would marry SIL at the time. I said that I understood that, in the final analysis, she would and should put her family first, but I thought she should also have some loyalty to her original family. After that, we returned to everyday topics and I thought we had both had a pleasant lunch, 'cleared the air', and that we were moving forward in rebuilding our relationship. However, it seems I was wrong.

When we returned to the house after lunch (for me to call a taxi back to the hotel), SIL went off to his workshop without speaking to me or saying goodbye. I went to the workshop and said goodbye and gave him a hug. I found it a gruelling trip without DH but went away thinking it had gone well.

Anyway, back to the present, I was blindsided by DD1's comments in the conversation to the effect that I should have written a letter and that it might be 'too late'. I said what did she think I should say in the letter. I said that it was all so long ago, that I had apologised to SIL, that we had met since then at DD1's 21st, that he had said we were 'ok'.DD1 said she didn't want anything that would upset her after the birth. I said that I would never do anything to upset her after the birth. I said that I was nice to SIL, praised him for his DIY skills and as a father, that I behaved in a civilised fashion, sent him cards and gifts, what more could I do, I couldn't make him like me. At this stage DD1 was clearly agitated and said she had to go and that she would speak to me another time. I said 'Alright darling, good bye'.

So I feel both devastated and empty at the same time. I had thought, after the most hellish two years, when I had to watch my beloved DH die and then lose his aunt, whom I was close to. When, more recently, my MIL nearly died, my sister in law has had major surgery, and I have lost one of my closest friends (the funeral is this week), I had thought that I had just about survived. I keep giving myself a talking to, saying come on, just one more step forward, nearly there, nearly the end of the year. And now this.

I apologise for the length of this post, but I would be grateful for any advice as to how handle the situation. Part of just feels like giving up, but I obviously don't want to lose DD1 again, and I am worried about the birth of DGS and would have wanted to be a support, not an aggravating factor.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 04/02/2022 19:01

Oh Chopin what a crap few days.

Concentrate on MIL. Give her your time via FaceTime or in person if allowed. SIL sounds wonderful- keep her close, lean on each other.

Grey rock DD1, LB and his parents. Yes a card of "it's wonderful that all is well at such a time of sadness as MIL is so unwell"

Grey rock them.

They are not up front and honest, flying monkeys for sure.

Thanks
MondayTuesdayWednesday · 04/02/2022 19:03

I have an alternative view to most here in that I agree with you that I would send a message that you would like to visit to meet the new baby and see the family and to let you know when it would suit. You’re doing this in the full knowledge that they may not let you visit but in that way you’re putting the ball in their court and then they can’t let it be said that you never asked or wanted to visit so it’s protecting you in a way.

As for LB’s parents, I agree with others, who cares what they think. They are nothing to you and you don’t need to respond. If you respond in any way that would appear to criticise LB then that would be held against you. That card doesn’t warrant a response anyway even in the most normal of circumstances unless it was someone you’re really close to which you are not. If I recall correctly, they were being criticised not too long ago by LB and your DD so the picture they paint is not necessarily accurate either.

tribpot · 04/02/2022 19:15

Unfortunately Monday mentioning visiting allows LB to reopen the whole question of Chopin writing him a letter of apology for some imagined slight last year. If Chopin were to write that letter, every word would be twisted and used against her. If she refused to write the letter, that would also be held against her. They want her to mention visiting so they can stoke this up again and ultimately extract a financial penalty from Chopin. They are all about other people's money.

And in fairness with three little ones, no help and a move to Ireland to organise, not to mention a legal case against the obstetrician, I'm not sure visiting DD1 would be a kindness at the moment.

Chopinandchampagne · 04/02/2022 19:28

Good evening everyone, and thank you so much for all of your advice and support.

My lovely MIL died last night, peacefully, in her sleep, just short of her 90th birthday, but having had an amazing life. She was inspirational, beautiful, charming, a trailblazer, strong and independent, the best MIL anyone could wish for, and the best grandmother I could have wished for my DC. Her death was not unexpected, but none the less devastating. There is never a right time to lose the people we love. DD2 and DD3 are very upset, and the funeral, although not yet organised, will be in the same church as that of DH's funeral, which will be difficult.

My SIL has informed DD1 - she asked if that would be ok, as she knows about the situation and has been immensely supportive. DD1 sent a message to say that she had heard from her aunt about granny. Just before that, she had messaged to say was I ok, that the parcel had arrived and thank you for the gifts. She also apologised for not having acknowledged sooner, but said that LB had gone to Ireland, she didn't say why, and had taken the 'phone with him. Also, that he has said that someone has been using their land, so they need to go back to Ireland, as soon as possible.

I haven't responded, either to her or to the PIL, I just don't have the strength or, frankly, the inclination. I am so upset over MIL and need to comfort DD2 and DD3.

Thank you again everyone for your posts, especially ESGdance, although you are all amazing!

OP posts:
RandomMess · 04/02/2022 19:31

Oh Chopin

Much love and hugs and Thanks

May you and the younger DDs comfort each other x

Feministwoman · 04/02/2022 19:44

Oh Chopin.
💕💕 Such sadness.
Please ignore DD1, and concentrate on you and your close family. Which no longer incldes DD1.

I am so sorry about your MiL dying, even though she had reached a good age it is still so very hard to loose beloved family.

Bendyrabbit · 04/02/2022 20:00

Condolences to you and your family

tattychicken · 04/02/2022 20:17

I'm so sorry about your MIL. She sounds like an amazing woman. X

legosnowqueen · 04/02/2022 20:33

So very sorry @Chopinandchampagne that's such sad news, you are having such a tough time. Your MIL sounds like a really wonderful lady Thanks

tribpot · 04/02/2022 20:36

So sorry, Chopin. Hope you and DD2 and DD3 will be able to comfort each other and spend some time remembering your MIL with love. That's all that matters for now.

RachelGreeneGreep · 04/02/2022 20:49

Sending you a big hug.
Such beautiful things to be able to say about your MIL. She sounds truly amazing.

May she rest in peace.

UserBot9to5 · 04/02/2022 20:53
Flowers
PearPickingPorky · 04/02/2022 21:03

Sorry to hear about your MIL.

Regarding your DD1, it sounds like LB had taken the phone to stop DD1 being able to contact you. And it's as you expected, they've to go back quickly.

SoonbeSpringtime · 04/02/2022 21:49

I'm also sad to hear about your MIL @Chopinandchampagne she really does sound like a lovely woman.

Just quickly, for when you do respond to LB's parents and to your DD keep couching it in neutral, if not slightly passive aggressive tones.
'How wonderful, you must be thrilled, DH would be so touched' etc to the other GPs. Please don't even dream of telling them about your future plans though.

To DD 'I am so excited about X and missing you all of course, how are you darling?' etc etc. Everything to imply you want to go and see them, but stopping short of asking outright.

Keep your powder dry, keep on keeping calm, you're really doing very well in the face of trial after trial.

MondayTuesdayWednesday · 04/02/2022 21:58

@Chopinandchampagne I’m so sorry to hear about your MIL. Deepest sympathies.

How awful that LB would take your daughters only means of communication with him to Ireland and even worse that she cannot see how selfish this is.

Look after yourself.

Newestname002 · 04/02/2022 22:34

@Chopinandchampagne

I'm so sorry for the loss of your MIL, but glad her passing was peaceful.

My thoughts are with you and your family in the coming days. Strength to you my dear. 🌹

LadyEloise1 · 05/02/2022 00:25

Deepest sympathy on the loss of your mother in law. May she rest in peace.
Wishing you strength in the weeks ahead Thanks

Jk24 · 05/02/2022 00:29

So sorry to read this op. Hope you're holding up OK Flowers

SirVixofVixHall · 05/02/2022 00:33

Oh no Chopin I am so very sorry. She sounds a wonderful woman. Flowers Flowers Flowers

ESGdance · 05/02/2022 01:30

I am so sorry to hear of this loss especially at this very difficult time for you Chopin with all of your other losses - it will really compound your pain. Your MIL, DH and his siblings sound wonderful and you are all blessed to have had them in your life. I hope that you can seek comfort in your DDs and be mindful that this close bereavement might feel especially painful on your current grief - so please do anything and everything to be gentle and protective of yourself over the coming months.

Morechocmorechoc · 05/02/2022 08:39

Sorry for your recent loss. You really are having a tough time. I've been following you for a while now.

I know all advice is to stop engaging but obviously you arent going to do that and the minimal engagement is still causing you great pain so things need to change one way or the other so you can get on with life.

Honestly I think you should ask to visit the baby asap and you can tell Dd about the card from PIL and how you'd like to visit too. Personally I would phone LB parents if you have their number and ask about baby and be honest with them. I imagine they have some small influence over Lb. I also think now dgs is here safe you can stand up for yourself more. Simply because LB wants your inheritance he won't let you leave the picture. I think all or nothing because the way you're being treated won't change and the pain and stress it is causing you is immense it must change.

billy1966 · 05/02/2022 08:46

Oh that is sad.
She sounds like she was a wonderful woman.
May she rest in peace.

She went peacefully after a wonderful life and was much loved.

There is some comfort in knowing that.

Mind yourself and the two daughters that are with you.

Flowers
SpellitwithaY · 05/02/2022 08:58

I'm so sorry to hear about the passing of your mother in law. The beautiful way you describe her brought a tear to my eye. She sounds wonderful. Please just take time for yourself over the next few days. Let the rest blow away...

FunnyGoingsOn · 05/02/2022 09:31

Sorry to hear about your MILThanks

BorsetshireBanality · 05/02/2022 09:57

I’m so sorry for your loss Chopin. Flowers

I find it hard to understand why any father would leave his wife to cope with a new-born and two young children on her own and take her phone. His property empire is all important to him.

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