Are we courting, even if he’s not single?

[Olivia8484]

So...in a nutshell..I’ve fallen for a guy I work with. He’s in a long term relationship and has one child. I also have one child and currently separated from my partner.

I know it’s wrong to feel so attracted to him and to want to talk to him and casually hang out during work. I actually don’t know how he feels and whether he just enjoys the attention (although I’m subtle and he’s not yet aware I’m separated).

We have lots of deep conversations, we tease each other and talk about sex jokingly every time we meet for lunch (not sex with each other but jokes about sex and past experiences). Not as many times but we’re comfortable with each other. He mentions his partner casually and is a good dad. We’ve never kissed or touched inappropriately. We’ve hugged once and he pulled me in by the waist with one arm. Other than that, it’s all banter and none sexual flirting.

I’m a thrill seeker. I don’t know if I truly want him or just enjoy the attention. I don’t believe he would ever overstep and be suggestive, although I don’t know if I would mind. At the same time, I feel he’s like my soulmate with how much connection we have, and sometimes wonder if he’s happy in his relationship, which he is very guarded about.

I know I’m going to get a swarm of people hammering me for being naive and also assuming I’m trying to break up the relationship and steal him. I just need a pep-talk. An honest pep-talk because I’ve not talked to anybody about this.

He wants to get his leg over. I guess that is wanting a connection of sorts.

Wondering how long before he suggests a quickie in the stationery cupboard.

@Olivia8484

London is also a place densely populated with people, half of them male. And a share of them aren’t in a relationship.

Get online, swipe. Join a gym, or some hobby group. Meet with friends - at least before they lock is down again….
You can meet someone available, if you aren’t hang up on this guy.

Courting! Are you actually 84 years old?

Don't be a dickhead OP

No you aren't courting - that's an old fashioned term for going out. You are flirting with some bloke on lunch break. Hopefully he barely knows you exist, because the alternative is that he is very attracted to you and may break up his relationship. This a v unlikely from what you say, but it could happen next time - do you want that? To break up a family for a fuck?

If you want a thrill, buy some condoms, go to a bar and pick someone up.

why anyone would want to get with a guy who has a relationship and a child and still flirts with another woman... disgusting really

No not courting, more like courtesan.

Come on Olivia, raise your bar.

OP, I saw a comment on here a while ago that you might find useful, along the lines of:

You aren’t obsessed with a married man because you are single/lonely,
you are single/lonely because you are obsessed with a married man.

Let me guess: His wife doesn't understand him/they're in separate beds/you two are meant to be together...if only he could leave the mean witch....but he can't because x ,y or z.

Oldest story in the book - find yourself someone available

Courting sounds romantic.

From an outsiders perspective the situation you have described does not sound romantic. It sounds tawdry (another old fashioned word) and dangerous for you.

Dangerous because there’s no doubt in my mind that you would be the one blamed for any impact on his relationship, the one in danger of losing your reputation and your job. Not saying that is right because it isn’t, but that is the risk you run.

You are deserving of love but the more this continues the more you are limiting your chances of finding it. You need to create distance. Invent stuff you have to do at lunch. Start getting to know other colleagues more. Do what you need to do to move on and put yourself in a position to find that love

Ebony69

To me a good dad doesn’t put his relationship with his child’s mother at risk. Kids need security and a parent who puts themselves first and risks breaking up the family is not a good parent.

'What you’ve said resonates with me and is like you’ve almost peeled back my deepest layer and revealed what nurtures my mindset.'
You have posted as a cry for help? Give over, you're going after a shag with a dickhead.
Is this how you normally communicate OP, this is intense, over the top top red flag kind of talking, is this how he makes you feel too, your soul mate on a deepest level with your special connections? Woah. You are absolutely thriving off of the whole situation, feeding yourself with it, another poster said the same, reinforcing your dysfunction over him by posting about him and stoking it all, this fiery drama within your fast beating heart, that leaves you in agonised ecstasy. Some bloke at work who you're lining yourself up as available for an affair, pick me, you leave me trembling with emotion and lust and thrills. Jesus. You sound like hard work, such drama, such DEPTH of feeling.
Don't you have any boundaries at all, emotionally or professionally?

@FestiveFlavours

I want someone to care deeply for me.

Your moral compass is off, so that will repel nice men and attract players.

Your professional reputation is at risk.
And how do you know this guy isn’t telling the other men in your male-dominated workplace about the past sexual experiences you are telling him about?

You also risk losing your friends.

^^all of this plus you’re probably making an absolute fool of yourself in front of all your colleagues ☹️, who will be all too well aware of you pursuing this unavailable married man. He’s definitely not ‘courting’ you and this isn’t some Barbara Cartland novel either, you’ve potentially wrecking some poor woman’s marriage ffs.

It's flirting, not a relationship. You need to step.back and leave him.alone. you shouldn't even be considering breaking up a family. Even if you both ended up having sex, it probably would end as he'd choose his.family over you.

What a tremendously thoughtful and kind dialogue you had with YummyPumpkin, OP. It was such an eyeopener to see how she got to what you were really feeling and helped you look at yourself compassionately. She seems like a great therapist to me. I really hope you can find peace, solace, and a caring partner OP.

It’s good you’ll get some space and perspective. I understand. You enjoy the chase. Being settled can feel a bit flat by comparison. But I’ve learned as I mature that a man, who is caring and dedicated to you is not something to easily throw away. This man otoh is getting the best of both worlds, a wife at home to keep his bed warm and his ego stroked by a single woman, who clearly has the hots for him. He is loving this and laughing behind your back either in the metaphorical or literal sense.

Well I dont think you are "courting" is it 1950 again? He is enjoying his lunch Break flirtation with you thats all! You sound lonely OP. You deserve better than this sort of thing .Maybe try OLD or see if any friends have some single male chums. Most men if they think someone is interested will respond .You need to take yourself away from this. WFH is returning .Please take advantage of this ,distance yourself and leave him with his partner and child.

He definitely initiated most of the interactions, playfulness and progressively conversations about sex (always humorous and anecdotal). I actually thought he was single…and then told me he was married. I remember feeling a little confused because it came across to me that he fancied me and showed a genuine interest in my life and thoughts.

OP, you are sabotaging your personal and professional life by doing the pick-me-dance with this guy. He is using you as his work day, lunchtime ego-supply. He has certainly played this game before with other women: offering a shoulder, flirty banter, deeper conversations, adding a sexual element to the mix.

He really does not care about your well-being. He likes the emotional massage you give him everyday at lunch, and he knows how to get those. He sees that your boundaries are weak, and he’s an ace at escalating the energy without committing too much.

The truth is, if his Partner walked in and witnessed the deep conversations, flirty playfulness, and sex talk, he would choke on his hamburger and throw you under the bus.

This man is the wrong place to look for love. You are doing yourself a great disservice. You are also being complicit in the humiliation of an innocent woman and child. I doubt that you would ever encourage your own child to pursue a married/partnered man, would you?

You are recently separated. I am wondering how much your infatuation affected your relationship. Did you create distance between you and your Partner to justify yourself?

My advice is to use your agency, good sense, and empathy to shut this down. You’re on a dangerous dead-end path.

You’re just desperate for attention and probably have low self esteem. Stop showing yourself up, be a responsible mother and stop trying to wreck other peoples happiness. Some blokes love a bit of flattery but can usually see through a stalker

@OakRowan

'What you’ve said resonates with me and is like you’ve almost peeled back my deepest layer and revealed what nurtures my mindset.' You have posted as a cry for help? Give over, you're going after a shag with a dickhead. Is this how you normally communicate OP, this is intense, over the top top red flag kind of talking, is this how he makes you feel too, your soul mate on a deepest level with your special connections? Woah. You are absolutely thriving off of the whole situation, feeding yourself with it, another poster said the same, reinforcing your dysfunction over him by posting about him and stoking it all, this fiery drama within your fast beating heart, that leaves you in agonised ecstasy. Some bloke at work who you're lining yourself up as available for an affair, pick me, you leave me trembling with emotion and lust and thrills. Jesus. You sound like hard work, such drama, such DEPTH of feeling. Don't you have any boundaries at all, emotionally or professionally?

This

I used to 'date' married men until Mumsnet helped me see how unethical it was (I know most people don't need to be told. @Olivia8484 I suggest reading all the threads where devastated wives find out what the husband is doing. Rewrite married men as off limits to you again.

I haven’t actually shared any past sexual experiences. I tease him for the stories he shares about his youth.

Maybe I'm reaching here but do you think this crush could be partly a mid-life thing for you? You want to reexperience things that you experienced when you were younger.

The set up is so like when you fancy a boy at school or whatever. The main thing that has you hung up on this particular guy is that he's there, so you can get the 'next installment' regularly. You could get out more (as much as we're allowed and you can) widen the circle of men you interact with to include more vetting eligible single ones.

I think it's an attempt to pack in experiences of youth, knowing that you're approaching 40 in a few years. (I'm not criticizing, I'm 44 so I've been there.)

Late 30s can be a difficult age in some ways.

OP - I might have missed this in your posts, but if you work in a large law firm and he is more senior to you (a partner at the firm / your boss) I would also be very careful because if it all does go tits up – and it surely will – then you may well also lose your job. Law firms more than most are very good at getting rid of people that are no longer convenient....

Even if you are on equal levels at work, I do agree with many of the posts on here that you will end up in a situation where the job becomes untenable. So you are flirting with your career as well as this guy.

And that is before even starting on flirting with somebody else's partner which clearly - as everyone is saying, should be a complete no-go for you especially if they have a child (but to be honest even if they don't you are on the road to causing huge heartache).

You've recently separated and a child and work to focus on. This is limerance!

How important is your career, OP? Because it'll be you (unfairly, it takes 2 to tango) who will be left with the tarnished reputation. You'll be a home wrecker, your morals will be called into doubt, and you work in the legal profession. I hate the double standards, but if you are willing to risk being the other woman, maybe choose someone in a different field, different workplace, heck even a different town, rather than someone who is right there, every day. I guarantee you'll be the one leaving your job, he'll be fine. Are you prepared to thrill seek your way out of your career?

@OakRowan

'What you’ve said resonates with me and is like you’ve almost peeled back my deepest layer and revealed what nurtures my mindset.' You have posted as a cry for help? Give over, you're going after a shag with a dickhead. Is this how you normally communicate OP, this is intense, over the top top red flag kind of talking, is this how he makes you feel too, your soul mate on a deepest level with your special connections? Woah. You are absolutely thriving off of the whole situation, feeding yourself with it, another poster said the same, reinforcing your dysfunction over him by posting about him and stoking it all, this fiery drama within your fast beating heart, that leaves you in agonised ecstasy. Some bloke at work who you're lining yourself up as available for an affair, pick me, you leave me trembling with emotion and lust and thrills. Jesus. You sound like hard work, such drama, such DEPTH of feeling. Don't you have any boundaries at all, emotionally or professionally?

@OakRowan Whilst I don’t accept to be approached with warmth or openness, this forum is supposed to grant people the option to be open and reach out, without nasty comments. Your comments disrespectful, especially since I was being honest and vulnerable with another member who was decent enough to have a dialogue with me. Please do not waste your time replying to a remark you find distasteful. It’s hurtful. If I was happy being a dick, then I wouldn’t reach out and expose myself. That goes for every other nasty remarker on this thread. Be kind always. I’m not an evil person. I’ve made mistakes and I’m reaching out for guidance, if that is vile to you, then be adult enough not to respond than bashing someone online!!

@MsDogLady

He definitely initiated most of the interactions, playfulness and progressively conversations about sex (always humorous and anecdotal). I actually thought he was single…and then told me he was married. I remember feeling a little confused because it came across to me that he fancied me and showed a genuine interest in my life and thoughts.

OP, you are sabotaging your personal and professional life by doing the pick-me-dance with this guy. He is using you as his work day, lunchtime ego-supply. He has certainly played this game before with other women: offering a shoulder, flirty banter, deeper conversations, adding a sexual element to the mix.

He really does not care about your well-being. He likes the emotional massage you give him everyday at lunch, and he knows how to get those. He sees that your boundaries are weak, and he’s an ace at escalating the energy without committing too much.

The truth is, if his Partner walked in and witnessed the deep conversations, flirty playfulness, and sex talk, he would choke on his hamburger and throw you under the bus.

This man is the wrong place to look for love. You are doing yourself a great disservice. You are also being complicit in the humiliation of an innocent woman and child. I doubt that you would ever encourage your own child to pursue a married/partnered man, would you?

You are recently separated. I am wondering how much your infatuation affected your relationship. Did you create distance between you and your Partner to justify yourself?

My advice is to use your agency, good sense, and empathy to shut this down. You’re on a dangerous dead-end path.

@MsDogLady

Thank you for your advice and I have taken a hard look at my choices and going forward will re-set and focus on what matters. Because deep down I know, this is all superficial and selfish and the guilt is really consuming me.