Recently found out My Nice Guy has rape fantasies. *content warning added by MNHQ*

[NAMALTthoughprobablyare]

Have a FWB for over a year who seems a really nice guy, middle aged, says all the right things about attitudes to women, shows awareness of how we experience the world differently, reads about this. In bed I trust him absolutely. He's into erotic, sensual stuff not porn stuff. If he suggests something and I don't want to he completely accepts this immediately and says he would never want to do something unless we both wanted to. He is extremely generous to me sexually, clearly enjoys giving. I have had the best sex of my life with him.

I asked him to tell me a fantasy he has. Basically it was about him kidnapping a woman, killing the people she is with who try to protect her, taking her to his bedroom, tearing off her clothes whilst she is crying and protesting, throwing her onto the bed and ' fucking her hard'. He tried to make it more 'rape light' by saying he could tell she had started to be aroused by him taking his clothes off, that when he forcibly kissed her she started to kiss him back, and that as he approached her to have sex (rape) her he decided he would stop if she protested, but I suspect he only added that last bit in to make it more palatable to me.

I mean FFS, if this guy has rape fantasies and I never, ever would have guessed he does, what guy doesn't??!! Are all men secretly like this?! Is NAMALT actually a load of shit?!

I’m on the fence on this one – isn’t non-consent / reluctance quite a common fantasy for both men and women?

Isn’t it the main theme in a huge amount of mainstream porn?

Fair enough if it’s put you off him, but I don’t necessarily think fantasising about this scenario means he is someone who isn’t appalled by real-life rape.

@EarthSight

Can't believe how many women seem to make the assumption that because they have dark fantasies, that must mean it's harmless if men have those fantasies too and one shouldn't take it that seriously.

Look at the sexual crime statistics - it is obvious there are some differences between men and women in desires and behaviour, be they cultural or genetically inherited. Men are much stronger than women and are overwhelmingly the ones who commit sex crimes. Therefore, to dismiss this kind of fantasy as 'just fantasy' that doesn't really mean anything is risky if not foolish.

@EarthSight Your post is offensive to women and patronising.

The OP posted the following
Have a FWB for over a year who seems a really nice guy, middle aged, says all the right things about attitudes to women, shows awareness of how we experience the world differently, reads about this. In bed I trust him absolutely. He's into erotic, sensual stuff not porn stuff. If he suggests something and I don't want to he completely accepts this immediately and says he would never want to do something unless we both wanted to. He is extremely generous to me sexually, clearly enjoys giving. I have had the best sex of my life with him.

If she barely knew him or there was lots of red flags about him sexually and he had not respected her boundaries in bed before then she would have got different responses from the women who would be ok with this.

As women we take a risk every time we sleep with someone new, even (initially) consensual sex can turn into a hellish experience and end up being assault or rape. We don't know what the guy is going to be like in bed until we are in bed with him unfortunately.

A man doesn't have to be into rape fantasies to go on to rape a woman, whether that's a woman on the street, his partner or wife.

But as women we are allowed to make up our own minds about what we feel is safe or harmless. We are allowed to make our own judgements on whether we feel safe sexually with someone without being judged for it and called foolish.

[quote NAMALTthoughprobablyare]@ElectraBlue I don't feel unsafe around him, I've had a year of knowing I am completely sexually safe and he respects my boundaries absolutely.

But I am disturbed. I can't help but think there is a limit to acceptable fantasies. I never fantasise about hurting or terrifying someone.[/quote]
It sounds like like you would feel unsafe around him. He sounds dangerous.

Fantasising about killing people...umm..no...that's a deal breaker. Psychopaths fantasise about that.

Run.

@BillMasen

I think a lot of the responses on here are why men might be reluctant to share fantasies that include rape. This guy is being judged for it.

Awww won't anyone think of the rape-fantasists?

The murder stuff would be the end for me. I know it's a fantasy, but ...

Reading this thread, I expect the rape fantasy is a common one for us, due to conditioning? When I was growing up a lot of the romance/fiction I read would have included elements of this. I don't know about teen fiction today, maybe it has evolved?

This is probably more an AIBU, but has any male partner ever told you they have a rape fantasy?

The answer is NO for me. I've heard a good few other fantasies, but not that.

A no for me too (but then again I've never told a partner I'd have an occasional non-consent fantasy).

I've heard a few fantasies from partners, the usual ones like threesomes, sex outdoors, and so on, but they did nothing for me when spoken aloud.

I think the murder element is as simple as in a film or computer game where people get "killed" as collateral damage to the plot. It's endemic in all our art forms, why wouldn't it be present in a creative, narrative sexual fantasy?

This thread has really opened my eyes to how little understood the psychology of sex is, and how unfamiliar some of the terms and concepts seem to be to different people. That sounds really lofty and patronising but I genuinely had no idea that someone might think your sexual fantasy meant you were trying to enact it in real life... if you, in real life, are decent, respectful and so on.

If it was, for example, animal torture, or children, or causing incredible pain sadistically... then maybe worth investigating. But coercion and power and control are the absolute vanilla mood music of our subconscious minds and our culture reinforces those "acceptable fantasy transgressions" at every turn.

The pp was right who said it's BECAUSE he is nice he allows rage and energy and anger to flow. In his fantasy life, not his real life.

This is probably more an AIBU, but has any male partner ever told you they have a rape fantasy?

@PrincessOfTheDork No. I mean I was once in a BDSM relationship and I wanted to try that and he agreed (it was crap as I've said upthread.)

He had some pretty gross fantasies (liked the idea of preventing a woman from going to the loo while she begged and eventually involuntarily wet herself) but not rape. Thankfully we split up before we did that.

That sounds really lofty and patronising but I genuinely had no idea that someone might think your sexual fantasy meant you were trying to enact it in real life... if you, in real life, are decent, respectful and so on.

@CompetitiveMumming It mightn't for most people but for one or two people it might. And how people appear doesn't necessarily show how they really are. Even the fantasy might show something about someone.

For instance my ex that sexually enjoyed humiliating and hurting women, turned out to be quite nasty and misogynistic IRL.

His fantasy is to kidnap and kill and rape?.

@dogfishman

Wavypurple "The sexual fantasy of most men is to have complete control over a woman, anyone who disagrees is in denial." What casually misandrist junk. Quite a few men fantasise about having a ready supply of willing young women. Many fantasise about one specific woman, year after year. Some don't fantasise about much at all, and they're no more likely to fantasise about rape than women are. Fantasies are just that, and shouldn't impinge on real life. That said, only the OP can decide whether this fantasy and the sharing of it is on the wrong side of the line for her.

I agree. I would have thought fantasies about willing young women would be more common than rape fantasies. You control what happens in your fantasy, so wouldn't you be irresistible rather than having to force yourself on women?

why wouldn't it be present in a creative, narrative sexual fantasy?

I can only speak for myself but, while I have a wide, varied, and pretty hardcore fantasy "realm", it has never included killing people, as collateral damage or not.

@femfemlicious

His fantasy is to kidnap and kill and rape?.

Exactly.

Men I've been with fantasise about sex acts with one or more woman; not a backstop of abduction, murder of innocent bystanders/relatives/whoever who try to prevent the abduction and rape.

And I still can't get my head around the logic behind this woman whose relatives/mates/acquaintances/best case scenario bystanders who tried to help her hsve been murdered by him; will secretly be turned on and want the sex when he's raping her. She's not going to thinking "he killed them, I'm next when he's finished with me, dumped in a shallow unmarked grave". Who wouldn't get turned on .... like wtaf.

"Are all men secretly like this?"

I can answer this one with absolute certainty: "no".

The sexual fantasy of most men is to have complete control over a woman, anyone who disagrees is in denial."
What casually misandrist junk.

Yep, most common sexual fantasies of men seem to include (willing) threesomes, women acting what they consider "slutty" and wild, impromptu sex with strangers, some have cuckold fantasies, being diminished themselves, you name it; it's nowhere near that homogenous.

*being dominated themselves

@JohnHunter

"Are all men secretly like this?"

I can answer this one with absolute certainty: "no".

A poster has had two threads titled men of mumsnet, aimed at getting their opinions on a couple of issues); maybe they could post in here or a thread canvassing opinions could be made, it would be an interesting perspective.

... But coercion and power and control are the absolute vanilla mood music of our subconscious minds and our culture reinforces those "acceptable fantasy transgressions" at every turn.

It's not the coercion, power or control that makes me ; its the casual murder of people in the fantasy.

And the fact their casual murder, and reasonable conclusions draw from it by the woman he's abducted & is raping apparently doesn't interfere with her arousal.

Why did you ask if you didn't really want to know?

Because she didn't expect her, to date, well adjusted fwb to come out with that??!!

She probably expected what i'd expect if I'd asked a bloke that; some variation of threesome, stranger sex, outdoor sex, bondage, swinging/orgy, prostitution, some scenario or other etc et.

Not a particularly disturbing episode of csi.

Yeah I'd put the lid back on the can of worms and throw it to fuck away from me asap that's not normal at all

I can only speak for myself but, while I have a wide, varied, and pretty hardcore fantasy "realm", it has never included killing people, as collateral damage or not.

@Allsortsofroses Yep. When I was ill with my bipolar I'd have a fantasy of the whole group in a gaming club I used to go to watching while X, Y, Z is done to me by several people, some of it pretty rough. But no-one died. Not even me.

Well me neither, I don't fantasise about killing people, and at the risk of becoming the "murder apologist" you can see 5 year olds play "bang bang you're dead" games in any playground. My daughter is 6 and she jokes and plays with the idea of killing aliens or baddies. I tell her gently that it's not a good game to include these things and try and get her to see that theyd be bad in reality.

But honestly ,the idea of killing isn't going anywhere away out of people's subconscious.

@CompetitiveMumming It depends on the context-kids playing or reenacting films isn't really the same.