Calling you MEN of Mumsnet

[bunglebells]

Ok, this post isn't to get into a huge ethical debate... but I've actually been wanting to ask it for years. Am assuming it might have been done but I couldn't find it!

Those of you that don't use PORN. Could you tell me why? As in, don't like it, gone off it, ethical reasons, feels wrong, because partner doesn't like it.

So many threads on here about porn. And most seem to end up with women who say their partners don't watch it, being told they're naive. I don't particularly want to get into that debate, but would be very interested to hear if there are men who really really don't, and obviously then, why?!

For the record and upfront. I'm anti I suppose. Prefer not to have it in my relationship. Have experienced relationships where men do, and some where they (allegedly) don't. Of these, some I've believed, others I haven't. But that's besides the point.

Don't want a bun fight, just genuinely really interested and intrigued.

@scaredtoask

(Equally, I find a lot of the women who seem to have very low expectations of and “oh, men, what are they like, it’s just how they’re wired they can’t help it!” attitudes towards men and toxic behaviour, are women who don’t have male friends.)

Funny you this, cause in my experience it’s the women in long term relationship with men who has the lowest opinion of men.
(Have ”put out” or they cheat, all men watch porn/ look at women, are not romantic etc.)

I think @ComtesseDeSpair’s point — which I agree with — is that women who don’t have male friends who have low expectations of their male spouses or partners. And that men with female friends are likely to objectify women.

Posting about separate points.

Isn't it a common complaint that women are complaining about men being obsessive and spending hours of the day watching porn. or spending money that could be better used. It isn't 15 mins relaxation with a cup of coffee, then back to work. Porn takes over mens lives.
Spending all ones spare hours on a Golf Course is bad for a marriage and shows a selfishness but porn leads to violence somewhere.

There's a lot of double standards when it comes to sex, and men know it goes in their favour because woman also tear down other woman instead of supporting them the way men have other mens backs so maybe if we stick together and make our own boundaries instead of appeasing to mens attitude that men will be men but woman are dirty slags if they behave the same way.
Woman don't need to be jealous of each other in fact woman can't win if they aren't perfect they get ripped to pieces and if they are then woman are threatened by them.
How many times have I seen old ugly fat men slagging off a celebrity for not being body perfect while they clearly have no chance with them anyway?

And why are woman in music videos in their underwear and men in suits to show they are important and woman reduced to their underwear?
The reason is because men wouldn't stand there and sing/perform in their underwear they would have more self respect, but it's expected of a woman if she wants anyone to watch her video she must be half naked and have sex appeal.

Also how many men tell one another they are easy or anyones if they sleep around? None.
Or call each other degrading names because they flirt or cheat. None.
Men seem to make these double standards but woman enforce them too.
If woman were enjoying watching men suffer or being abused by other men and saying it was fine because they're only men, they would rethink their values.

@jamie85

I recently watched a couple of sites that were recommended by women on the Sex Board. That was the first I had seen in years. The settings were more sophisticated, more stylish, someone's house not a set-up. But there was violence just below the surface I felt. The men were working away for ages, maybe trick photography? Id looked painful. The 'Girl-on-Girl' or Lesbian ones really looked as if they were being kinder to each other. Not a controlled rape. Exploitative in nearly all cases. I have not been back to watch for a week, it will probably be a few years before I go back.

Are you male? If so do you mind saying how old you are... and if you used to watch more often in the past.

I've done exactly the same in the past... after decades of not watching, looked at some recommended on here (not recently).. more out of curiosity than anything. I did find them erm, stimulating. But haven't really gone back as like you, despite that I don't want to be someone that uses porn, however sanitised and "ethical".

I once had a quick look at one of e main sites and was instantly horrified.

Hi,

like most guys of a certain age, my first exposure was to "mens" magazines in my teens, all quite tame by todays standards. But I still do occasionally indulge, when the wife and i were younger we did watch a few porn videos that I borrowed from the secretary at work (my wife did tell here of the effect they had haha).

I know some ladies are offended by it, i can understand that, and some of is a bit extreme and not my taste, but after 30 years of marriage, my sex drive is somewhat higher than hers, she isnt offended. Obviously I would say that most guys use porn while masturbating, and most ladies know this is the case. my wife did catch me once when I though she was asleep, but she came into the room with the computer and caught me red handed, i was more embarrassed than she was and the day after she told me "nothing to be embarrassed about"

I would rather have sex with her, but a bit of DIY isnt an issue between us, she in the past has read some racy novels that I know have led to her masturbating. I think if both parties are ok with it and it isn't extreme where is the harm.
Generally I am not really into the fake "idealised" porn where people are perfect, the ladies have big boobs and the guys are ripped and well hung, prefer "normal" people to be truthful, find it more erotic.

I think if both parties are ok with it and it isn't extreme where is the harm

If you read the thread, the “harm” is to the women making the porn.

Even if it’s not “extreme” there’s a high chance some of the women will have been coerced, pressured, or downright trafficked into porn. Some will be underage, some will be doing it because it’s the only financial option for them…

How do you feel about watching it knowing that?

What do you class as extreme anyway? These days anal, orgy, dp etc are all pretty mainstream.

@Davy009

Hi,

like most guys of a certain age, my first exposure was to "mens" magazines in my teens, all quite tame by todays standards. But I still do occasionally indulge, when the wife and i were younger we did watch a few porn videos that I borrowed from the secretary at work (my wife did tell here of the effect they had haha).

I know some ladies are offended by it, i can understand that, and some of is a bit extreme and not my taste, but after 30 years of marriage, my sex drive is somewhat higher than hers, she isnt offended. Obviously I would say that most guys use porn while masturbating, and most ladies know this is the case. my wife did catch me once when I though she was asleep, but she came into the room with the computer and caught me red handed, i was more embarrassed than she was and the day after she told me "nothing to be embarrassed about"

I would rather have sex with her, but a bit of DIY isnt an issue between us, she in the past has read some racy novels that I know have led to her masturbating. I think if both parties are ok with it and it isn't extreme where is the harm.
Generally I am not really into the fake "idealised" porn where people are perfect, the ladies have big boobs and the guys are ripped and well hung, prefer "normal" people to be truthful, find it more erotic.

This is like a textbook instance of missing the point.

@Davy009, has it ever occurred to you for a nanosecond that the problem of porn consists of anything more than whether your wife minds your ‘DIY’?

One reason I don't watch porn is because almost all the women in the films have tattoos and oversized breasts. (The former I can accept in real life but I find off-putting in a film.) Even when I've tried small breasts (it's an option on some sites) the small number of videos available did nothing for me.

Also when I don't have a woman in my life I don't really want to remind myself of what I'm missing - in fact being unable to stop thinking about sex is already a problem which I don't want to exacerbate.

However I would say that a lot of women nowadays enjoy porn and expect a man to be able to replicate porn style sex. That's been my experience as a 50 something, conservative, traditional male, so for a younger male I suspect it's far worse.

In fact the only reason I ended up trying porn was because 2 of my exes were into it and I got sick of disappointing them by having no interest.

@Negligee

This is like a textbook instance of missing the point. hmm

@Davy009, has it ever occurred to you for a nanosecond that the problem of porn consists of anything more than whether your wife minds your ‘DIY’?

100% understand where you are coming from, I think there's a strong case for porn distorting peoples views and expectations (across all genders and orientations), as well as it being exploitative in many cases. In some ways similar to what we have now with social media promoting unrealistic and unhealthy body ideals, ripped guys, ladies with pumped up lips etc etc. Point I was trying to make is that it's not always the case, I suppose like lots of things its a continium and not black and white, where does one draw the line between erotica and porn?

[quote Davy009]@Negligee

This is like a textbook instance of missing the point. hmm

@Davy009, has it ever occurred to you for a nanosecond that the problem of porn consists of anything more than whether your wife minds your ‘DIY’?

100% understand where you are coming from, I think there's a strong case for porn distorting peoples views and expectations (across all genders and orientations), as well as it being exploitative in many cases. In some ways similar to what we have now with social media promoting unrealistic and unhealthy body ideals, ripped guys, ladies with pumped up lips etc etc. Point I was trying to make is that it's not always the case, I suppose like lots of things its a continium and not black and white, where does one draw the line between erotica and porn?[/quote]
You can say across all genders and orientations but the reality is that the most distorted views in the vast majority of porn are relating to women
It’s womens bodies that are the subject of the majority of porn and the one who are objectified in hero porn

Sure the occasional ripped man but it’s not uncommon to see older overweight or average men with extremely attractive younger women
Often the man’s face isn’t even shown
To pretend it’s not hugely more objectifying of women Is just pretending
Men have the upper hand and they know it like someone else said .. no wonder it’s not a problem for most men

ah, another pro-Trump wierdo No-Fap post. oh dear.

@j712adrian

ah, another pro-Trump wierdo No-Fap post. oh dear.

Huh?

@LinoVentura

One reason I don't watch porn is because almost all the women in the films have tattoos and oversized breasts. (The former I can accept in real life but I find off-putting in a film.) Even when I've tried small breasts (it's an option on some sites) the small number of videos available did nothing for me.

Also when I don't have a woman in my life I don't really want to remind myself of what I'm missing - in fact being unable to stop thinking about sex is already a problem which I don't want to exacerbate.

However I would say that a lot of women nowadays enjoy porn and expect a man to be able to replicate porn style sex. That's been my experience as a 50 something, conservative, traditional male, so for a younger male I suspect it's far worse.

In fact the only reason I ended up trying porn was because 2 of my exes were into it and I got sick of disappointing them by having no interest.

That's interesting! Really? When you watched with exes did you enjoy or was it always not really a positive choice. Reading this thread shows not all men watch porn at all,so some at least are not lying about that

Name changed for this, male opinion incoming ! -

OK, I watch it but wish I didn't.

Slight mitigating factor - I was single for many years, and as the free availability of it increased, so did my consumption.

I'm now in a sexless relationship, so I watch it a lot more than I know is healthy, but apparently it is an addiction due to the ' high' it can provide.

I find myself looking forward to my partner being away or on a night out so I can have some ' me ' time. That makes for a healthy relationship, doesn't it?

I'm not in a position yet where I am one of those consumers that is chasing more an more 'extreme' stuff , but I know that happens to some people.

The guilt is quite bad, I've watched it in some inappropriate places as well, which brings me to my final comments..

For all the ' Not my Nigel' women, and men trying to prove something in here by saying they don't watch it, in my experience it is incredibly rare for a man not to watch it at some level. Give a man a phone and a few minutes of privacy ( long showers, toilet sessions anyone?) , and off you go. As a man many unrelated sites we go on, such as twitter and sports forums, often lead you to it via a roundabout route.

Put it this way, no woman can say for certain that her partner or husband doesn't watch porn. They are simply taking their word for it. It doesn't mean the partner or DH is proud of it, or even really enjoying it, but it happens more than Mumsnet would have you believe.

@SirNamethofChange

Name changed for this, male opinion incoming ! -

OK, I watch it but wish I didn't.

Slight mitigating factor - I was single for many years, and as the free availability of it increased, so did my consumption.

I'm now in a sexless relationship, so I watch it a lot more than I know is healthy, but apparently it is an addiction due to the ' high' it can provide.

I find myself looking forward to my partner being away or on a night out so I can have some ' me ' time. That makes for a healthy relationship, doesn't it?

I'm not in a position yet where I am one of those consumers that is chasing more an more 'extreme' stuff , but I know that happens to some people.

The guilt is quite bad, I've watched it in some inappropriate places as well, which brings me to my final comments..

For all the ' Not my Nigel' women, and men trying to prove something in here by saying they don't watch it, in my experience it is incredibly rare for a man not to watch it at some level. Give a man a phone and a few minutes of privacy ( long showers, toilet sessions anyone?) , and off you go. As a man many unrelated sites we go on, such as twitter and sports forums, often lead you to it via a roundabout route.

Put it this way, no woman can say for certain that her partner or husband doesn't watch porn. They are simply taking their word for it. It doesn't mean the partner or DH is proud of it, or even really enjoying it, but it happens more than Mumsnet would have you believe.

Honest and insightful. I think men on this thread have explained why they don't watch it, not sure if you're saying you absolutely don't believe them? Agree that most men do though of course.

When you say you wish you didn't and feel guilty could you explain your own reasons for that? Wife, ethics, sexual impact, affect on your attitudes etc.... as in, you enjoy it, so why have you got a feeling of guilt?

@SirNamethofChange

Name changed for this, male opinion incoming ! -

OK, I watch it but wish I didn't.

Slight mitigating factor - I was single for many years, and as the free availability of it increased, so did my consumption.

I'm now in a sexless relationship, so I watch it a lot more than I know is healthy, but apparently it is an addiction due to the ' high' it can provide.

I find myself looking forward to my partner being away or on a night out so I can have some ' me ' time. That makes for a healthy relationship, doesn't it?

I'm not in a position yet where I am one of those consumers that is chasing more an more 'extreme' stuff , but I know that happens to some people.

The guilt is quite bad, I've watched it in some inappropriate places as well, which brings me to my final comments..

For all the ' Not my Nigel' women, and men trying to prove something in here by saying they don't watch it, in my experience it is incredibly rare for a man not to watch it at some level. Give a man a phone and a few minutes of privacy ( long showers, toilet sessions anyone?) , and off you go. As a man many unrelated sites we go on, such as twitter and sports forums, often lead you to it via a roundabout route.

Put it this way, no woman can say for certain that her partner or husband doesn't watch porn. They are simply taking their word for it. It doesn't mean the partner or DH is proud of it, or even really enjoying it, but it happens more than Mumsnet would have you believe.

And... also

Just out of interest as this thread has been really open and of interest.

If you had to say whether you thought porn was a force for good or bad or neutral in the world. What is your core feeling?

I'm interested if it's like smoking for some men.... as in if you smoke you probably feel that there's no real redeeming features to it, but it feels nice and is a habit. But there seems to be (not always of course) an element of subterfuge and secrecy about porn. Of course it's a private/personal act, so not exactly like smoking. But I'm wondering if a better analogy (in terms of the psychology of it) is the feeling of being unfaithful. I'm not suggesting using porn is literally being unfaithful (although some women feel this, and I think it is an interesting philosophical discussion), I mean more in terms of the rush. That there's guilt and shame but also an excitement about "getting away with something naughty" behind your partners back?

None of this is meant to try to shame, I'm just wondering if the secrecy is part of the buzz for some partnered users?

@SirNamethofChange
Or anyone else who wants to answer a question:

What do you/is considered ”extreme”?
What’s the cut off from non-extreme to extreme.

@LS1414

As a woman, I wouldn’t mind my partner watching porn. I’d watch it with him!! Lol I’m confident in myself and porn isn’t a threat to me. I also understand men are full of testosterone it’s Mother Nature for them to release. It’s not cheating it’s totally natural.

Hahahah.....such a cool girl response @LS1414

I'm confident in myself as well, but am more sympathetic than you towards women who really don't like it at all. Mother nature 🙄 God, whatever did those poor men do before the availability of hardcore porn? They just have been so, so deprived of that release.

Hello,

I feel guilty as you don't know the story behind some of the home grown stuff..is it revenge porn? how much consent has been given etc .

There is then the issue of 'the industry' that gives us porn stars in videos such as 'fake taxi ' and ' fake driving instructor '.

It also is a bit of a 'dirty secret' in some ways, and yes it's thrilling and enjoyable at the time ( it is nearly always watched in conjunction with masterbation , isn't it?) , shortly afterwards the 'disgust' kicks in.

As for 'extreme' ..well, I guess it's not 'Extreme' but threesomes, MILFS, back stage at strip shows..I guess I mean 'niche' rather than extreme.

As far ss I can remember, I didn't watch it as much when I had a regular sex life, as I didn't want to use myself up, if that makes any sense.

@SirNamethofChange

Hello,

I feel guilty as you don't know the story behind some of the home grown stuff..is it revenge porn? how much consent has been given etc .

There is then the issue of 'the industry' that gives us porn stars in videos such as 'fake taxi ' and ' fake driving instructor '.

It also is a bit of a 'dirty secret' in some ways, and yes it's thrilling and enjoyable at the time ( it is nearly always watched in conjunction with masterbation , isn't it?) , shortly afterwards the 'disgust' kicks in.

As for 'extreme' ..well, I guess it's not 'Extreme' but threesomes, MILFS, back stage at strip shows..I guess I mean 'niche' rather than extreme.

As far ss I can remember, I didn't watch it as much when I had a regular sex life, as I didn't want to use myself up, if that makes any sense.

Do you mean that the niche/extreme you described isn't what you watch or is what you watch. Threesomes etc?

You said you hadn't progressed to extreme...

I'm not saying it is... I'm just not sure if you're saying that's your thing, or isn't your thing?

@j712adrian

ah, another pro-Trump wierdo No-Fap post. oh dear.

I don’t think anyone understands your bizarre post Who is pro trump and how does a man like that have anything whatsoever to do with anti porn

@SirNamethofChange

Hello,

I feel guilty as you don't know the story behind some of the home grown stuff..is it revenge porn? how much consent has been given etc .

There is then the issue of 'the industry' that gives us porn stars in videos such as 'fake taxi ' and ' fake driving instructor '.

It also is a bit of a 'dirty secret' in some ways, and yes it's thrilling and enjoyable at the time ( it is nearly always watched in conjunction with masterbation , isn't it?) , shortly afterwards the 'disgust' kicks in.

As for 'extreme' ..well, I guess it's not 'Extreme' but threesomes, MILFS, back stage at strip shows..I guess I mean 'niche' rather than extreme.

As far ss I can remember, I didn't watch it as much when I had a regular sex life, as I didn't want to use myself up, if that makes any sense.

I agree, the problem for me is not porn per se, it is the industry and now the capacity for anyone to upload images of revenge, rape, underage, trafficking victims or material being shared without consent. I understand that the major 'free' sites like pornhub make little effort to remove material created in this way.

I used soft core porn as a teen (80s so magazines passed around my friendship group). I was sort of OK with this, I assumed (or wanted to assume as a teenage boy) it was consensual and the women had agency and control. When I began working in an area that meant I heard first hand accounts of abuse and sexual violence both within the industry and in the world in general and in some cases the filming of this, porn use was over for me. Along with a fair bit of disgust that my younger self thought the women in porn mags really wanted to be there.

I have always had a visceral horror of sexual violence, even as a prepubescent child. My dad had a stash of porn novels with a high content of really nasty abuse and rape narratives which I found and read parts of when I was little. I just have to remind myself that what I might see in porn is probably not what it seems when it comes to consent and motivation for the performers and any desire to watch is done.

That said, if people involved truly consent to creating and sharing themselves in porn I don't have any objection on moral grounds. If DW and I cannot save our marriage and sex life I might seek out ethical porn - if it really exists.

@Nozy

Also how many men tell one another they are easy or anyones if they sleep around? None. Or call each other degrading names because they flirt or cheat. None. Men seem to make these double standards but woman enforce them too. If woman were enjoying watching men suffer or being abused by other men and saying it was fine because they're only men, they would rethink their values.

Men do have discussions around sex, cheating, porn etc. Some men are shamed by their peers, ridiculed. The problem with sex is, the realization that's it's not free. It has a cost, both qualitative and one that can be quantified.