Calling you MEN of Mumsnet

[bunglebells]

Ok, this post isn't to get into a huge ethical debate... but I've actually been wanting to ask it for years. Am assuming it might have been done but I couldn't find it!

Those of you that don't use PORN. Could you tell me why? As in, don't like it, gone off it, ethical reasons, feels wrong, because partner doesn't like it.

So many threads on here about porn. And most seem to end up with women who say their partners don't watch it, being told they're naive. I don't particularly want to get into that debate, but would be very interested to hear if there are men who really really don't, and obviously then, why?!

For the record and upfront. I'm anti I suppose. Prefer not to have it in my relationship. Have experienced relationships where men do, and some where they (allegedly) don't. Of these, some I've believed, others I haven't. But that's besides the point.

Don't want a bun fight, just genuinely really interested and intrigued.

@Strawing

You need to get with the times you don’t even know what your arguing against. Half the videos on porn sites are homemade, it’s not part of any industry.
Some people are freaky or at least willing to do it for money. Surely you must know people have different sexual tastes? Why try to force everyone to conform to yours.

I think you just find it hard to accept the idea that many women choose that - but it’s true. Just because you or I wouldn’t do it doesn’t mean it’s wrong for them to choose to do it.

@DevonsFinest

Just ignoring your vile posts now. You’ve gone from arguing against women willingly choosing porn to making comments about my wife being gang raped because you don’t agree with me.

Well I guess I know what kind of people are super anti porn now. Disturbing.

@Menherepleasedontbetriggered I'm a man (in case that's relevant) and I think you have a certain valid point, but are also mixing in condescending comments and a dismissive attitude to some horrible trauma that some people experience as a direct result of the porn industry.

Yes, if adults are completely consenting and want to get paid then that may be reasonable, but that doesn't mean that people who dislike it are frigid or uptight.

Also, maybe none of us can change the world singlehandedly so that nobody gets abused, but that doesn't mean we should just completely give up and say "that's just going to happen - nothing to do with me."

@Menherepleasedontbetriggered
It's only disturbing when it's your wife or you but as you put it "the odd gang rape isn't an issue" when it's someone you don't know but can wank over it.

It is an issue for the victim though.

It’s a fact that in the USA at the moment figures show that around 60% of divorces initiated by women involve porn use, hookers etc and porn use is the biggie— so maybe the guys who think it’s harmless might think on this when their 45 year old wife who has turned a blind eye or pretended not to mind when she has young kids suddenly minds very much as an older woman . Whilst I don’t like the ethical angle, I personally find in my eyes that high use( multiple times a week) of such stuff totally devalues a man in my eyes , makes me feel shit and I don’t feel happy when the guy who was previously kind and caring starts looking at you like a starved rabbit each time you get changed etc— I’m sorry but in my view overuse of this stuff changes blokes attitudes and behaviour and they are permanently on heat - I appreciate some older women don’t mind and use it themselves but rarely at the rate many men do and most men are secretive and lie about their use too.

[quote Menherepleasedontbetriggered]@DevonsFinest

Just ignoring your vile posts now. You’ve gone from arguing against women willingly choosing porn to making comments about my wife being gang raped because you don’t agree with me.

Well I guess I know what kind of people are super anti porn now. Disturbing.[/quote]
Nothing ‘vile’ about pointing out that one man’s wankfodder is another person’s gang rape.

@Menherepleasedontbetriggered

Should have mentioned I’m a man.

You didn't need to.

And the idea that it’s ok if it’s amateur— I find that stuff actually more offensive than professionally filmed stuff— as you definitely don’t know if the uploading is consensual etc- guess that adds to the thrill for some sad bastards though

I believe the sex industry has portrayed women as objects, to satisfy the desire of the male species. Hence why we have a rise in male violence and sex related crimes (think Sarah Everard) her killer was a heavy porn user and also porn addiction. As it’s not regulated, it opens women up to exploitation and that’s where the problem lies. I watched a documentary about porn once and one of the female actors thought she was filming a scene with one male actor but actually there were three, you could see she was very uneasy about this.

Men aren’t learning anything, they’re just having a quick wank, plenty of them are in loving relationships

That must account for the repeated threads on herd from.women, from young to older, cinsrsbtmy being harassed to perform sex acts common in porn, by their partners who have their expectations affected by porn.

And it seems to affect men's general attitudes towards women too, it heavily contributes to toxic masculinity.

Even if not all men watch porn, men still talk about woman in derogatory terms, creating a sense of normality around sexualising and dehumanising them an attitude which porn is largely responsible for, weather watched by all or not we live in a society where it's become acceptable for men to talk about woman like trash and other males laugh and agree and think they are funny and look good, most men will admit it's not right but it's the way it is so they don't take responsibility as they're just being like other men.

Online pornography is a sociogical phenomenon. It is SO popular all round the world. Not sure when it became mainstream - early 90s? - but the growth and reach and is remarkable, including large numbers of women.

What did @Manherepleasedontbetriggered deleted post say?

@Boofle45

What did *@Manherepleasedontbetriggered* deleted post say?

Oh, just more of the same ‘women’s objectification or degradation is harmless wankfodder, you uptight bitches’ sort of thing. High-grade stuff.

I think Manhereplease inadvertently helped to prove the point made by some anti-porn posters: regular unthinking porn use can go hand-in-hand with some unpleasant attitudes towards women who don't have that "anything goes" attitude depicted in the porn itself.

I came to this thread to say that I have watched porn occasionally, but I'm moving further towards the anti-porn team as I read through these recent posts.

@DevonsFinest

Even if not all men watch porn, men still talk about woman in derogatory terms, creating a sense of normality around sexualising and dehumanising them an attitude which porn is largely responsible for, weather watched by all or not we live in a society where it's become acceptable for men to talk about woman like trash and other males laugh and agree and think they are funny and look good, most men will admit it's not right but it's the way it is so they don't take responsibility as they're just being like other men.

I genuinely don’t know any men who speak in a derogatory way about women or sexualise them - and I know a lot of men, and none of them would especially call themselves nice guys or good guys. My social group is very large and very mixed sex with people from a range of backgrounds. So I wonder if the broader connection is that men who have a lot of female friends and therefore like and enjoy the company and perspective of women without sex or attraction being involved, are more likely to respect women than men who don’t have any/many female friends and who can therefore only relate to women in terms of people they have sex with?

(Equally, I find a lot of the women who seem to have very low expectations of and “oh, men, what are they like, it’s just how they’re wired they can’t help it!” attitudes towards men and toxic behaviour, are women who don’t have male friends.)

I agree @ComtesseDeSpair

I think the increasing pink/blue gender divides does no one any favours.

As for porn, i’m not anti. It’s just as I’ve got older and moved from the previously mentioned 80’s, pre internet stuff to what’s available now, it’s fairly easy to see that there are major red flags around women and how they are presented and used.

If I could guarantee that all (mainstream at least) porn treated their participants ethically, with health and welfare first and foremost, with no coercion, genuinely a free choice, then I’d have no problem.

Issue is it isn’t. Even in mainstream film and tv actors have spoken out about the casting couch and coercion into unethical acts in order to get parts or keep directors onside. Hell it happens in all walks of life, so no chance of keeping it out of porn.

fightthenewdrug.org/porn-industry-isnt-just-selling-sex-its-selling-violent-abuse/

www.focusforhealth.org/how-pornography-impacts-violence-against-women-and-child-sex-abuse/

filmdaily.co/news/female-porn-stars-abuse/

(Equally, I find a lot of the women who seem to have very low expectations of and “oh, men, what are they like, it’s just how they’re wired they can’t help it!” attitudes towards men and toxic behaviour, are women who don’t have male friends.)

Funny you this, cause in my experience it’s the women in long term relationship with men who has the lowest opinion of men.
(Have ”put out” or they cheat, all men watch porn/ look at women, are not romantic etc.)

@MoonbeamsGlittering

I think Manhereplease inadvertently helped to prove the point made by some anti-porn posters: regular unthinking porn use can go hand-in-hand with some unpleasant attitudes towards women who don't have that "anything goes" attitude depicted in the porn itself.

I came to this thread to say that I have watched porn occasionally, but I'm moving further towards the anti-porn team as I read through these recent posts.

Exactly. I started this thread for a reason. To have an opportunity to test the oft quoted theory that every man watches porn.

And that all of that is compulsive, addictive, violent etc.

And I say that as someone that thinks porn is generally insidious and a negative force for all.

It's inevitably become an ethical debate. A shame really, but with posts such as manhereplease's I can see why. Proves a lot. Not a blanket attitude, but enough of one to be extremely worrying.

I recently watched a couple of sites that were recommended by women on the Sex Board. That was the first I had seen in years.
The settings were more sophisticated, more stylish, someone's house not a set-up.
But there was violence just below the surface I felt. The men were working away for ages, maybe trick photography? Id looked painful.
The 'Girl-on-Girl' or Lesbian ones really looked as if they were being kinder to each other. Not a controlled rape.
Exploitative in nearly all cases. I have not been back to watch for a week, it will probably be a few years before I go back.

So far, as the OP, and, as I have said... me being generally anti. I think it has been very useful to learn, if posters are honest. That...

Not all men watch porn. They've never liked it. (Interesting to hear some men say all men/women watch it despite actual real life men on here saying they don't 🙃).

Not all of the porn men that do watch is violent (deeper ethics aside here).

Some men move away from porn for many reasons.

Some men appear to try be respectful and fair to women whilst also admitting to watching some porn (and might be open to changing their mind as to whether this is a good thing).

Some men and women watch it and don't care or have any problems with it. Fair enough.

Some men are genuinely repulsive.