DH has arranged to spend Christmas with his parents….on his own

[Jisforjuggling]

This might just be the end of us.
The ILs live in a different country and don’t speak English. We stayed with them just before the first lockdown and he has managed to visit twice since (albeit once was for a funeral). We are booked to visit in feb half term. DH wanted to go for NY. I can’t. It’s a day travelling each way to get there and back and I have work commitments that just make it not worth while. I said he could take DC for the last week of the holidays. This would be the first time has has taken the children on his own and he knew I was apprehensive. I don’t trust his manipulative overbearing mother. This was huge for me. DH presents me with the flights he is proposing to take. He has turned this into an 11 day trip which also involves cancelling 2 long-standing holiday plans. I said no. I agreed to 6 days, 7 at a push. He says I’m being unfair and preventing him from seeing his parents. He sent me a text last night saying he has booked to go on his own for a week over Christmas. In 11 years we have never spent Christmas with his family….in his words ‘they don’t really celebrate Christmas’. It’s never even been discussed as an option. I’m considering telling him if he goes through with this we are finished. (Yes, iceberg and tip are valid comments).

Christmas is pretty much irrelevant to the bigger picture, and potential serious issues that you are faced with.

No there is no way in hell I would be letting him take the children. If he has very manipulative parents AND he is very unhappy at the moment there is every reason to be fearful he won't come back. I really would not dismiss that eventuality. We all think we know people, we all think we know what is going on with them, but we don't really. Any adult prepared to throw a hissy fit and leave their young children over Christmas is not someone you can trust op.

Do not let him take the children under any circumstances, this situation highlights some very disordered thinking and parenting, and can you really trust his parents to care for YOUR children if they are highly abusive and terrible parents to your dh?

No.

Let him do what he needs to do, gloss over it with the kids (ie grandparents are ill again) and focus entirely on giving them the best Christmas ever with your extended family. I would be taking legal advice in the new year or before, and ensuring I could manage financially and in all other ways, because quite frankly if he goes through with this, I feel that will be very hard to come back from.

I love the way words are twisted to justify.

Don’t really celebrate Christmas isn’t the same as not celebrating Christmas.

I think I get it OP. I think I have a similar family dynamic but thank goodness PIL live in the U.K. They have always been quite emotionally manipulative and only communicate between themselves in a language I don’t speak and don’t understand. Several things sound similar, especially the attitude to age and ageing. They were in their early 60s when DH and I met, but have been mentally preparing to die all that time (despite having several elderly relatives of their own). They’re not especially resilient and DH feels a deep sense of duty. It’s hard to reason with him when one of these episodes is going on.

I think you have to work out what you want - you’re going to have to accept that his parents are going to be problematic if you stay. I expect they’ve put pressure on him. It’s possible he could go and you could have a great Christmas with your family. But I agree that I would be livid on behalf of the children.

Some of you aren't reading the OP properly.

He could have taken the children for 6 days.
They're going at February half term.

Despite that, he's chosen to leave his family over Christmas. And he has form for making big dramatic strops over holidays.

He sounds like a complete arsehole and a terrible father.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow.

What he has done is clearly unreasonable, but so is your expectation that you are the ultimate arbiter on when his kids are allowed to see his parents

His mother has proven repeatedly that she is incapable of looking after the DC. She doesn’t listen or follow instructions. She has put the DC at risk more than once. When we have previously visited them we have agreed that the DC are not to be left solely in her care. Me agreeing to DH taking the children without me is a huge step for me largely influenced by the children being older and my eldest being able to articulate to me what is going on. I have a genuine concern that MIL will railroad DH into letting her have sole care of the children with potentially disastrous consequences. So sorry, but I will decide, when, how, and for long she has influence on the DC.

Don’t really celebrate Christmas isn’t the same as not celebrating Christmas.

I’ve never actually been there, so I can only go on what DH says. Christmas Eve is a bigger thing - big meal. On Christmas Day, they have a meal, not hugely fancy, might share one gift. No decorations. No tree. No family, no friends (they don’t actually have any friends).

Right he's being a childish, petty, manipulative Twat. He's clearly having a tantrum because you won't (understandably) let him take your children for 11 days.

I think you need to grit your teeth and NOT engage in an argument over this. God I would find it so hard, as he's being so unreasonable, but don't enter into his stupid mind games.

Just calmly say 'if that's the decision that you've made then ok'

Then seriously think about what you want going forwards. He really does sound like hard work

Is he strong enough to stand up to his parents? If he usually caves I’d suggest they have told him to come over “as it may be our last Christmas” type thing as they exaggerate their health issues as usual and he’s fallen for it. With covid times it may actually be the case.

11 years is a long time to not see your family at Christmas, even if he celebrates it more than them.

It’s not ideal he will miss Christmas Day with the kids but they will be so busy playing with new toys they probably won’t miss him that much. Many dads miss Christmas Day after all. It’s normal in many households.

With this new variant you may find that borders get closed anyway so who knows what will happen. I would want him tested before getting back into the household in case he picks anything up if there is a flight involved as they cram them in like sardines.

I have a genuine concern that MIL will railroad DH into letting her have sole care of the children with potentially disastrous consequences. So sorry, but I will decide, when, how, and for long she has influence on the DC

Yet you refused to go as a family for one week, and you are letting him take the kids, just at the time you have decided is the right one, not the one he wanted.

I don't think this is a LTB matter however annoying it is.

I actually feel sorry for your children and agree with the poster above who said one of her parents was an alcoholic and they were worried about things as they weren't explained to them. Your children must be so confused.

This issue and the holiday where he didn't come at first are big things so I'm going to assume he does similar on a smaller scale as well.
What exactly do you tell your children? I have a 10 year old and he would be confused and asking what was going on if these things happened out of the blue.
You sound like a great mum and you clearly just carry on and your children don't miss out but they must be upset and confused and picking up on the hostility and their dad's behaviour.
This would be my main issue here and I wouldn't want my children raised in a household like this, they must be on edge.

They have always been quite emotionally manipulative and only communicate between themselves in a language I don’t speak and don’t understand.

I don't understand why you would marry someone whose native tongue is different to your own and not make a conscious effort to learn the language so you can communicate with their family.

They have to communicate in their own language because they don’t speak English!

It sounds like you’re picking holes now OP

He's deliberately trying to cause a fight over this trip. You were happy for him to take DCs for a week after Christmas, but he won't book this. First he tries to book for longer than is convenient and now he's decided to disappear over Christmas day.

I'm not quite sure what his goal is, but he's definitely trying to cast you as the bad guy who's stopping him seeing his family in this.

Threatening divorce over him wanting to see his parents comes across as very controlling and manipulating.

FFS.

This might be true, if it's what OP was doing.

She's in no way stopping him seeing his parents. He won't make practical reasonable plans, and now is punishing her by going away for Christmas itself. No decent father or husband does that.

It is her H who is controlling & manipulative.

I'm sending my dh to spend Christmas with his parents. He likes them and it doesn't bother me. I don't see it as a them vs US situation. Yes, it's not the norm and people raise their eyebrows, but who cares.
If you said to him in a nice non-passive aggressive way "go enjoy yourself, have a lovely time. Can you tell the kids why you aren't there", what would happen?

I guess it comes down to how much you get from your overall relationship with him .
His relationship with his parents sounds damaged and complex and it sounds as though as doesn't know how to handle it .
No doubt there will be more situations like this in the future .

Only you know whether the positive bits of your relationship outweigh these negative aspects .

Could he/would he get help from counselling ?

How are his parents and when was the last time he saw them? He might be willing to do the trip as this may be the last time he seems them… alive.

I almost lost my parents to Covid last year and they look very fragile these days, life expectation is much lower in my area and I’m very aware they are on borrowed time already, every little health issue now usually means landing in the hospital for a few days and the dreaded question if this is it popping up.

If he is in a similar situation, let him go. He will resent you forever if something happens and he couldn’t spend a final Christmas with them because your job took priority.

@GrandmasCat

How are his parents and when was the last time he saw them? He might be willing to do the trip as this may be the last time he seems them… alive.

I almost lost my parents to Covid last year and they look very fragile these days, life expectation is much lower in my area and I’m very aware they are on borrowed time already, every little health issue now usually means landing in the hospital for a few days and the dreaded question if this is it popping up.

If he is in a similar situation, let him go. He will resent you forever if something happens and he couldn’t spend a final Christmas with them because your job took priority.

Did you bother to read the OP at all? He was literally planning on taking the children a week later. They're also going in February.

[quote Jisforjuggling]@Redsquirrel5 I know he will be miserable. He done this in reverse before. Holiday booked, we have an arguement he says he isn’t coming. He doesn’t come so I go with the kids (because they are fully expecting a holiday and we’ve paid for it) and less than 24 hrs later he calls, he’s sad, he misses us, he’s going to come. And then he buys a ticket and comes. I never beg. He can make his own decisions and live with the consequences.[/quote]
This jumped out at me more than Christmas, even.

That's truly horrible manipulative behaviour. My exH did something similar to me in the dying days of our marriage (where there was a litany of abuse from him already). He didn't even tell me he wasn't going but disappeared the night before, for drink & slept like a log refusing to wake up, pack or participate. My DC were very little. I'd no choice but to put them in the car & go as he stood refusing to speak. He then said I hadn't let him come. A week later he changed his mind, arrived on holiday & behaved exactly the same in reverse, only this time with my family around, so more humiliating.

This man is not a good person.

Hoooooookay…. I’m going to draw some hypotheticals.
One:- DH is disengaged and CBA playing Happy Families over Christmas. He has booked the trip to the Outlaws as an excuse to sit on his arse sans kids, you and all the holiday palaver and will probs be treated like the Prodigal Son as well. (And complain to them about you and vice-versa.)

Second Scenario is that DH occasionally muddles fantasy and reality and refuses to remove his rose-coloured glasses (especially if they suit his agenda). He has decided that for now, his reality is that his family has meaningful connections and traditions, etc… It suits him to forget that he starts phoning you within 24hrs of being in their company looking for validation that he is a separate human being from their world of blob.

Let him go. Go absolutely radio silent. As they say in spy movies, “Go Dark”. Don’t answer his calls. Don’t read his texts, open emails, look at photos, etc… Don’t even think about reminding him of what he’s missing out on. Let him vegetate in the stupor/stupidity of his own choices, wonder WTF you’re up to and deal with the consequences. I wouldn’t even consider allowing devices at all for kids over Christmas period. Post nothing on Social Media. He can get to fuck.

@Jisforjuggling I sympathise my XH also did things relating to his family in another country which clearly showed where his priorities lay.

If you split, he’ll have the kids 50-50. He’d be able to let his mum look after them whenever he chose, on his days/nights.

Just be aware of this in your decision making.

I think you’re well justified in splitting up.

Alternative view - maybe it’s because 23 to 29 consists mostly of weekends and bank holidays, so it means he can go away without using annual leave, and spend New Year back with his family?

@Jisforjuggling

Don’t really celebrate Christmas isn’t the same as not celebrating Christmas.

I’ve never actually been there, so I can only go on what DH says. Christmas Eve is a bigger thing - big meal. On Christmas Day, they have a meal, not hugely fancy, might share one gift. No decorations. No tree. No family, no friends (they don’t actually have any friends).

So they do celebrate Christmas? They just don’t do it the British way?